Hi! On my 77 RD400 i have a powerdynamo ignition installed, it has worked great for close to probably 8 years now roughly, have any of you with this ignition setup have an issue with the regulator/rectifier causing a short and blowing out the 20 amp main fuse? And is there a way to test it with a meter to determine its bad? Thanks in advance. :patriot:
Quote from: Blue400 on March 28, 2020, 02:55:38 PM
Hi! On my 77 RD400 i have a powerdynamo ignition installed, it has worked great for close to probably 8 years now roughly, have any of you with this ignition setup have an issue with the regulator/rectifier causing a short and blowing out the 20 amp main fuse? And is there a way to test it with a meter to determine its bad? Thanks in advance. :patriot:
I assume your 20 A fuse is installed between the battery and the bikes harness. It seems very unlikely to me that a faulty Powerdynamo regulator can blow that fuse. If your battery is healthy, the charging voltage, measured at battery poles should be around 14 VDC @3-4000 rpm.
I believe you have a short somewhere in the wiring loom/ lights/switches.
The rec/reg red wire does go to the main 20 amp fuse then to the battery. If the rec/reg is shorted it will blow the fuse even if the key is off. Try unplugging the rec/reg and see if it stops blowing the fuse.
actually...
if your battery was super low and you fired it off, the regulator will allow a lot of voltage and spike. I did this, this caused me to kill a zeel box, a regulator/rectifier, and an spa tach instantly. :eek: Yes, it was an expensive fix. the new ones have a capacitor to allow them to 'take the hit'. My powerdynamo was from 2007, this happened a bit over 2 yrs ago. So, its possible, yes.
The red wire from the regulator goes through the fuse to the battery, like it should. First thing i tried was unplugging the key switch with no luck. Then i tried unplugging the black wires going to the stator, still blew the fuse, if i unplug the red wire to the regulator, it does not blow the fuse. So that tells me the main harness is fine. What do you guys think? Oh and all this is happening with the key off, i was going to fire up the bike one day and noticed out of the blue i had no power when turning the key on, and noticed that fuse was blown.
Quote from: Blue400 on March 29, 2020, 10:33:06 AM
The red wire from the regulator goes through the fuse to the battery, like it should. First thing i tried was unplugging the key switch with no luck. Then i tried unplugging the black wires going to the stator, still blew the fuse, if i unplug the red wire to the regulator, it does not blow the fuse. So that tells me the main harness is fine. What do you guys think? Oh and all this is happening with the key off, i was going to fire up the bike one day and noticed out of the blue i had no power when turning the key on, and noticed that fuse was blown.
That tells me the harness isn't fine and the red wire is finding ground somewhere. Most likely a portion of uncovered wire rubbed through the shielding and is grounding out.
Quote from: Blue400 on March 29, 2020, 10:33:06 AM
The red wire from the regulator goes through the fuse to the battery, like it should. First thing i tried was unplugging the key switch with no luck. Then i tried unplugging the black wires going to the stator, still blew the fuse, if i unplug the red wire to the regulator, it does not blow the fuse. So that tells me the main harness is fine. What do you guys think? Oh and all this is happening with the key off, i was going to fire up the bike one day and noticed out of the blue i had no power when turning the key on, and noticed that fuse was blown.
The regulator/rectifier is blown. It is shorted. You proved it with those tests. Unplug it and install a new fuse and the bike should start. That will prove everything is ok with the cdi.
Quote from: Striker1423 on March 29, 2020, 10:46:51 AM
Quote from: Blue400 on March 29, 2020, 10:33:06 AM
The red wire from the regulator goes through the fuse to the battery, like it should. First thing i tried was unplugging the key switch with no luck. Then i tried unplugging the black wires going to the stator, still blew the fuse, if i unplug the red wire to the regulator, it does not blow the fuse. So that tells me the main harness is fine. What do you guys think? Oh and all this is happening with the key off, i was going to fire up the bike one day and noticed out of the blue i had no power when turning the key on, and noticed that fuse was blown.
That tells me the harness isn't fine and the red wire is finding ground somewhere. Most likely a portion of uncovered wire rubbed through the shielding and is grounding out.
When i unplugged the red wire going to the regulator/rectifier, then the fuse did not blow.
Quote from: 1976RD400C on March 29, 2020, 11:05:27 AM
Quote from: Blue400 on March 29, 2020, 10:33:06 AM
The red wire from the regulator goes through the fuse to the battery, like it should. First thing i tried was unplugging the key switch with no luck. Then i tried unplugging the black wires going to the stator, still blew the fuse, if i unplug the red wire to the regulator, it does not blow the fuse. So that tells me the main harness is fine. What do you guys think? Oh and all this is happening with the key off, i was going to fire up the bike one day and noticed out of the blue i had no power when turning the key on, and noticed that fuse was blown.
The regulator/rectifier is blown. It is shorted. You proved it with those tests. Unplug it and install a new fuse and the bike should start. That will prove everything is ok with the cdi.
So the bike should start with the regulator/rectifier disconnected?
as long as it doesn't rely on a relay to kill the bike. you may have to bypass that if its there, but then you have to kill it another way.
id bet the regulator fried due to over charging like mine did. how old is the battery? mine dead shorted as well.
Will the newer Vape regulator work on the older systems?
Did anything on powerdynamo change other than going from static timing to CDI?
With the regulator unplugged (because it is shorted), a good fuse in place, key switch plugged in, and a charged battery, the shut down relay will turn on ok and should start up.
Quote from: m in sc on March 29, 2020, 02:05:54 PM
as long as it doesn't rely on a relay to kill the bike. you may have to bypass that if its there, but then you have to kill it another way.
id bet the regulator fried due to over charging like mine did. how old is the battery? mine dead shorted as well.
The battery im pretty sure is around 10 years old, maybe i should replace that as well. I had not ran the bike in probably a month due to winter setting in up here in MN, went to start it and there was no power to the key, fuse was popped, so it went bad while sitting.
I hooked everything back up except the red wire for the regulator, no spark. :bang:
yeah, you need to unplug the blue wire from the coil to the relay if its there.
yup. my battery was 8 yrs old. then pow.
and yes, the new regulator works with the older units.
Quote from: m in sc on March 30, 2020, 07:42:48 AM
yeah, you need to unplug the blue wire from the coil to the relay if its there.
yup. my battery was 8 yrs old. then pow.
and yes, the new regulator works with the older units.
I did that, it has spark, im Happy about that! What is a good battery to get, and is economy cycle open?
Chuck likes an agm he has listed in some of his posts. me? i have had good luck with alarm batteries from home depot. replace very 5 yrs.
I have an alarm battery in it now, it's been good but not a bad idea to replace it.
Thank you for all your help everyone, I really appreciate it!
What kind of alarm battery?
this is what i use, or similar. be aware: you have to use smaller blade connectors. Lowes has them as well. they are always in or around the lighting department, sometimes used for emergency lighting as well.
https://batteryclerk.com/products/adt-security-alarm-804302-12v-4-5ah-alarm-battery?variant=6847743361083&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsYb0BRCOARIsAHbLPhGl9WzbFZEtSdDnvzxwShra3R5BaWHp4aPgo46J8boQ9Ven0SAtjDEaAiFGEALw_wcB
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lead-Acid-12-Volt-5-0-Ah-Black-Replacement-Battery-B-LA-12V-5-0A/306289896?mtc=Shopping-B-F_D27L-G-D27L-27_15_COMMERCIAL_And_INDUSTRIAL-NA-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-COMMERCIAL_INDUSTRIAL_CommercialLighting&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D27L-G-D27L-27_15_COMMERCIAL_And_INDUSTRIAL-NA-NA-Feed-LIA-NA-NA-COMMERCIAL_INDUSTRIAL_CommercialLighting-71700000052687888-58700005047732060-92700052328522653&gclid=Cj0KCQjwsYb0BRCOARIsAHbLPhGJU-_d6r8tvI9_ML1s3hXkKg2dXpXXi7oVHIzeK__Ndjm3pJDoEdgaAioREALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
I believe the battery i have now is very similar to that one, i had bought it at Radio Shack. Kind of a bummer those closed up.
My key switch is original on the bike, should i replace that as well? Did anyone re pop them?
yup, same battery. cant answer on the switch.
Quote from: m in sc on March 30, 2020, 12:58:46 PM
yup, same battery. cant answer on the switch.
https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/electrical-ignitions-lighting/ignition/mzb-regulator-with-built-in-capacitor/
This is the part i need, correct? It looks identical to what i have, and it says with that you can run the bike without a battery, have you ever went this route Mark?
thats what you need.
you can, i did when i first got it way back, but also had a capacitor (which is now IN the regulator). However, since i run a zeeltronic controller now, i started running a battery as it needs power to fire up. Some say it doesnt, but i dont want to kick it over forever to start. If you arent running one of those, no battery is needed. :toot:
Quote from: m in sc on April 01, 2020, 11:15:18 AM
thats what you need.
you can, i did when i first got it way back, but also had a capacitor (which is now IN the regulator). However, since i run a zeeltronic controller now, i started running a battery as it needs power to fire up. Some say it doesnt, but i dont want to kick it over forever to start. If you arent running one of those, no battery is needed. :toot:
I run a zeeltronic controller as well, and what a difference that makes! I will buy a new battery too. Thanks again for all the help!
Quote from: Blue400 on April 01, 2020, 12:04:45 PM
Quote from: m in sc on April 01, 2020, 11:15:18 AM
thats what you need.
you can, i did when i first got it way back, but also had a capacitor (which is now IN the regulator). However, since i run a zeeltronic controller now, i started running a battery as it needs power to fire up. Some say it doesnt, but i dont want to kick it over forever to start. If you arent running one of those, no battery is needed. :toot:
I run a zeeltronic controller as well, and what a difference that makes! I will buy a new battery too. Thanks again for all the help!
What are the main advantages of a variable ignition curve, in your opinion? Is your engine stock or modified? If modified, what has been done?
any 2 stroke will benefit from a curve. advancing it down low with a taper down up high is the key.
down low: increases power/torque, especially when dynamic compression is low
up high, when dynamic compression gets higher and the gasses really flow, having it retard a bot keeps the motor cooler, avoids detonation.
also, a zeeltronic has a programmable rev limiter.
on my S2, i had -zero- porting , jims denco chambers and a set of s3 carbs. no head cutting, nothing, internally motor was stock, laid down 59 rwhp with a zeeltronic and an h1 cdi modified to fit, curve was almost a 45 degree straight line. :twocents: its worth it , especially on calming down 'peaky' motors.
Mark, Economy sells a zeeltronic already set up for the street, I'm curious how careful you would have to be to tune it further? I would think a dyno would be necessary or no?
It sounds like a great addition to what I've got already. Cause this motor runs pretty warm.
beats me. I have no direct experience with preprogrammed zeel boxes, but i know with a well sorted motor, you don't need to swing the curve too far. Id imagine its pretty good. the HPI has a curve, seems to work well with my ported motor and flatslide 34's :twocents:
The zeeltronic controller we sell for the AC bikes comes with the original later Euro RD400 CDI curve. It's a mild curve.
I was using 5 mah battery, is that too much, or should I get a 4.5 mah?
A 5 is better than a 4.5 IMO.
Chuck
Ok, thanks again for all the info guys, in just about ready to put power to it after installing a new harness and regulator/rectifier. There is a lot going on in that headlight bucket but I think everything is right. :eek: