Hello everyone,
This is my first post and my first RD! I picked this thing up after "needing" a new project to take on. It's a 73' that the original builder made some interesting modifications to and I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what he did with the front and rear brakes. Additionally, I was hoping that someone could tell me the correct width of the front forks or front wheel axle. The forks look a bit pinched at the bottom. Anyway, I'm starting to plan the build and want to know what I'll be keeping and what's going to a new home or in the bin.
Happy to be here and thank you for the help!
some weird brake mods. they look like old ones at that.
welcome.
:toot:
Quote from: m in sc on April 13, 2020, 03:39:08 PM
some weird brake mods. they look like old ones at that.
welcome.
:toot:
Yep, and a lot of the bike was being held together with zip ties and hot glue. I really only wanted the frame, but the roller came with the title and I picked it up really cheap.
Rear brake is a stock early 400 that should have that flat torque arm below the swingarm.
It's possible that the swingarm is a later model that had a top mounted torque arm.
Front appears to be a later single piston sliding caliper on stock RD forks.
Bit of a mix and match.
Quote from: teazer on April 13, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Rear brake is a stock early 400 that should have that flat torque arm below the swingarm.
It's possible that the swingarm is a later model that had a top mounted torque arm.
Front appears to be a later single piston sliding caliper on stock RD forks.
Bit of a mix and match.
Perfect. That's what I was looking for. How do I identify a stock front wheel?
That looks like a stock OEM RD350 front wheel. You can get a new Reproduction alloy caliper from John at EconomyCycle. Great price and saves weight over stock iron caliper.
As to the potentially pinched fork. Just loosen the two M8 nuts at the bottom of the LH fork leg a turn or two, depress the fork a couple of times, and re- tighten the nuts. If nothing is bent, then everything should be ok.
Please note that the hole in the LH end of the front wheel axle may end up partly inside the axle clamp/fork leg . This is how all RD350s are, at least those I have seen. To pull the axle, using a Phillips screwdriver or similar, it just needs to be tapped with a mallet from the other side first.
The location of that hole must have been some kind of design or manufacturing screwup on the first place.
Quote from: Dvsrd on April 13, 2020, 09:29:53 PM
As to the potentially pinched fork. Just loosen the two M8 nuts at the bottom of the LH fork leg a turn or two, depress the fork a couple of times, and re- tighten the nuts. If nothing is bent, then everything should be ok.
Please note that the hole in the LH end of the front wheel axle may end up partly inside the axle clamp/fork leg . This is how all RD350s are, at least those I have seen. To pull the axle, using a Phillips screwdriver or similar, it just needs to be tapped with a mallet from the other side first.
The location of that hole must have been some kind of design or manufacturing screwup on the first place.
Sounds good. I was going to measure the next time I was with the bike, but it was in my head so I though I'd ask. I remembered it looking a little off when I left it and it's stuck with me since.
Quote from: teazer on April 13, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Rear brake is a stock early 400 that should have that flat torque arm below the swingarm.
It's possible that the swingarm is a later model that had a top mounted torque arm.
Front appears to be a later single piston sliding caliper on stock RD forks.
Bit of a mix and match.
The only thing I can find that matches the design is a modern caliper for scooters. It's a really strange setup and I'm wondering what the advantage was over the stock caliper or even a twin disc setup.
I think you would have to search for quite a while, to find a better caliper than the OEM 2 x 48 mm piston caliper. They were even used on TZ250/350/500 roadracers. The alloy reproduction one from EC is great, I have one on my 350.
If you want something else than OEM/ reproduction, while still being a 2 piston setup, then 41 mm Lockheed or the rare 48 mm Brembo are the main alternatives IMHO.
On the other hand, if yoy want the best and lightest available brake, then a single 300-320 mm flaoting disc, and a suitable 4 piston caliper plus an adapter plate is the best option.
I would not recommend adding a second front disc to any RD, unless for an all out roadracer. The added unsprung weight will hurt handling and suspension, and the added braking is really not needed.
(I binned the heavy and weak OEM dual disc setup on my 77 XS650, and replaced it with a single 320 mm ISR disc, a Brembo 4 piston caliper, and a home made adapter plate. Saved around 4 kg of unsprung weight, and now have a much better brake)
Quote from: Dvsrd on April 13, 2020, 10:32:05 PM
I think you would have to search for quite a while, to find a better caliper than the OEM 2 x 48 mm piston caliper. They were even used on TZ250/350/500 roadracers. The alloy reproduction one from EC is great, I have one on my 350.
If you want something else than OEM/ reproduction, while still being a 2 piston setup, then 41 mm Lockheed or the rare 48 mm Brembo are the main alternatives IMHO.
On the other hand, if yoy want the best and lightest available brake, then a single 300-320 mm flaoting disc, and a suitable 4 piston caliper plus an adapter plate is the best option.
I would not recommend adding a second front disc to any RD, unless for an all out roadracer. The added unsprung weight will hurt handling and suspension, and the added braking is really not needed.
(I binned the heavy and weak OEM dual disc setup on my 77 XS650, and replaced it with a single 320 mm ISR disc, a Brembo 4 piston caliper, and a home made adapter plate. Saved around 4 kg of unsprung weight, and now have a much better brake)
That's why I was wondering why they used that crazy setup. It's paired with a newer sport bike master cylinder. It's a crazy build, but it looks like I'll be ditching all of it and going back to stock components.
That seat looks like a torture device.
Quote from: RDFL on April 13, 2020, 11:33:42 PM
That seat looks like a torture device.
There are a lot of interesting things on that bike. My favorite was that instead of running a regular battery, they chose to use a 2-pack of 6v lantern batteries (still in the packaging) run in series with alligator clips and 20g wire.
I don't recognize the caliper. Scooter or small bike sounds about right. I would toss it and fit a single repo caliper.
You don't want two disks on the front. My last TZ350E came with twin (lightened) disks on the front end and the brake was twitchy and wooden feeling and all that weight made the front end chatter on fast turns. Both could be cured with work but the front end was always vague and never inspired confidence.
Then a friend let me race his backup Aprilia Cup RS250 that made almost as much power and handled and braked so much better that I sold the TZ.
Our drag race RD has a single aluminum EconomyCycle caliper, fitted with aluminum pistons and a thin light race disk and that should be enough brake.
If you really want twin disks I'd suggest that you fit smaller diameter disks and light calipers.
Quote from: teazer on April 14, 2020, 12:01:44 AM
Our drag race RD has a single aluminum EconomyCycle caliper, fitted with aluminum pistons and a thin light race disk and that should be enough brake.
Teazer, are those alu pistons raw or coated/anodized? I'd like some lighter pistons in my EC alloy caliper.
I also have a pair of 34 mm fork sliders from a 72-76 XS650, with caliper lugs located for a 298 mm disc, an XS disc hub (looks just like the RD, just 31 mm larger dia, and a 5 mm thick ISR disc, I just need to turn down the OD of the XS sliders to RD dimensions, and fit everything, before I have my near stock looking 298 mm front brake setup.
http://www.oilypipes.com/yamaha-products.html
Be a little careful here. IIRC stock iron calipers have 48.00 pistons and the bores in the caliper are slightly larger and that's what those alloy pistons are designed to fit.
The alloy calipers have 48.00mm bores and slightly smaller diameter pistons. Both types are notionally 48mm but one has smaller pistons and one has larger bores to get the required clearance.
If/when you order the alloy pistons be sure to measure the pistons and bores and let the seller know. I had that issue and he sent me a set of replacement pistons ASAP - excellent service and value.
Quote from: teazer on April 13, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Rear brake is a stock early 400 that should have that flat torque arm below the swingarm.
It's possible that the swingarm is a later model that had a top mounted torque arm.
Front appears to be a later single piston sliding caliper on stock RD forks.
Bit of a mix and match.
If I wanted a rear disc brake on s RD350, I would definitely look for something smaller and lighter. A 220 mm disc, 4 mm thick, and a small, lightweight caliper with 25-34 mm bore, most likely Brembo. That stock RD400 setup is totally overkill in so many ways.
Quote from: Dvsrd on April 15, 2020, 01:12:52 AM
Quote from: teazer on April 13, 2020, 06:11:34 PM
Rear brake is a stock early 400 that should have that flat torque arm below the swingarm.
It's possible that the swingarm is a later model that had a top mounted torque arm.
Front appears to be a later single piston sliding caliper on stock RD forks.
Bit of a mix and match.
If I wanted a rear disc brake on s RD350, I would definitely look for something smaller and lighter. A 220 mm disc, 4 mm thick, and a small, lightweight caliper with 25-34 mm bore, most likely Brembo. That stock RD400 setup is totally overkill in so many ways.
I agree. It's not going back on.
Quote from: teazer on April 14, 2020, 12:28:30 PM
Be a little careful here. IIRC stock iron calipers have 48.00 pistons and the bores in the caliper are slightly larger and that's what those alloy pistons are designed to fit.
The alloy calipers have 48.00mm bores and slightly smaller diameter pistons. Both types are notionally 48mm but one has smaller pistons and one has larger bores to get the required clearance.
If/when you order the alloy pistons be sure to measure the pistons and bores and let the seller know. I had that issue and he sent me a set of replacement pistons ASAP - excellent service and value.
Teazer is 100% correct on this...I have found the repro calipers bore and piston sizes are not consistent like the original 48mm pistons in the oem Yamaha calipers (probably when they do a certain number of production runs? I don't know how or why, but i'm done with it lol.) I took 2 different repro calipers apart and found 2 different bore and piston sizes...ever so slight, but enough to bind the alu pistons in repro caliper, but measure and work perfectly in the original Yamaha calipers as lightweight replacements. So to summarize... the Taiwan/China? aluminum reproduction calipers DO work great AS IS, and are a great value...they even come loaded with brake pads! They're much lighter than original calipers being aluminum bodies even with the steel pistons ( I use them frequently).
If you have original Yamaha calipers with rusty/pitted steel pistons, then our 48mm aluminum pistons are the way to go to lighten that heavy stock steel caliper. Every OEM caliper has the same size bore and piston...Yamaha consistency and quality.
pretty sure its of an 80s ninja, rear caliper of all things.
Quote from: m in sc on April 15, 2020, 03:55:40 PM
pretty sure its of an 80s ninja, rear caliper of all things.
Yep. That's the one. I found it this morning.
Well, I stripped it down and am very surprised that the bike didn't fall into pieces while being on the road. There are rear wheel spacers missing, loose hardware on the front wheel/axle, hastily mounted shocks, etc.
I'm going to start cleaning up the poorly de-tabbed frame and thought about fabricating an upper mount for a mono/LC setup. I have heard about the swap, but I haven't found any pros-cons. Anyone have any input? It seemed like a fun project to do with the extra time I have in the workshop.