Like to know the plus and minus compared to Vape system
any tricks to increase output wattage from HPI ignition ?
how is the ride, considering the fact that HPI has a light rotor
I have no experience of the HPI, but it seems to be a good alternative to VAPE, if you want a lighter flywheel and can live with a modest charging/lighting output.
On the other hand, I am sceptical regarding increasing the output. The coils and flywheel are designed for the specified output, and attempting to increase it would at least void any warranty and possibly damage the unit.
So to me it's quite simple: Want power for H4 lights ++, get a VAPE. If you can live with a 35W headlight, HPI is fine.
I've had the HPI on my bike for several years. You really need to go to full LED lighting. I don't think it can handle the stock 35 watt headlight when you consider the other lights on the bike like the gauge lights and tail lights. Also the battery uses quite a bit of the output to raise the voltage to 14 once the motor is running. So with a LED headlight and tail light bulbs it works and keeps the battery at full charge. The modification you can make is ungrounding the one side of the lighting coil and running that wire to a full wave rectifier like this one. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-4-Wire-Full-Wave-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier-Motorcycle-Pit-Dirt-Bike-Quad/263872324611?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 I think that helps the output but I never measured that.
The rotor weighs 11.35 ounces compared to 43.35 stock. It sure runs good. Never a misfire. The midrange power increases with the timing getting jacked up and then a 9000 rpm it really pulls the timing back to like 1.3mm BTDC.
this was all covered in various posts. currently running both on different bikes, so:
the hpi is good, but as stated, you can run into issues running too much electrical stuff stock. however, you can 'float' the ground and get better lighting. IF you decide to run a battery, you can run all the stock stuff and not have any issues. its definitely lighter and revs quicker due to this and has a built in useable curve. installation instructions are sketchy. Good quality though. racier more minimalistic. Ive had mine on for over 3 years.
the vape, or powerdynamo:
hearty unit, all the charging power you could ask for (i ran 2 halogen headlights with mine at one point) . I have no experience with the curve units, but they take to a zeeltronic programmer very well. Still revs faster than stock. Mines been on since 2007.
the hpi is more affordable.
the vape is more flexible to different applications.
both are really, really good. :twocents:
I was considering a HPI because of the built in curve, but I did not really want to have to float the ground on a brand new unit.
At the same time the vape with the CDI and 4 curve options came out, so it was a no brainer. The Vape also comes with the voltage reg and relay to use the stock kill switch included. The HPI may be cheaper, but by the time you get the extra parts needed the difference is not soo much.
Installation was straightforward after I found a decent wiring diagram online. Get the rotor bolt kit too if you decide to get one.
Im a bit confused. the only thing you need extra with the hpi is a reg/rectifier (if going dc) which isnt expensive, still cheaper.
Ive heard mixed reviews with the vape curve units, did they get whatever issues they had sorted out?
Another thing to think about is if you use a relay to shut it off and for some reason your battery goes dead, you need to have easy access to the wire from cdi to relay so you can disconnect it to start the bike to get home. I have a mx bike type of kill switch on mine that mechanically grounds out without a relay, but there is no room for that type of switch unless you use a different throttle.
GOOD POINT. i have a hidden switch under the bike that over rides the kill switch and a separate bar kill, dirtbike style.
I followed 1976RD400C advise with my HPI, doing LED's and floating the ground. Happy with it.
Not wanting to hijack here but something I never heard anyone mention is how the bike's power behaves with almost no flywheel weight with the HPI? Especially in low rpms and clutching in first gear. I have HPI unit I will install as soon as I get jetting 100%.
Only reason I ask is because I am a fan of smooth easy to use power... but ive never actually driving a bike that's practically had its flywheel weight removed.
Thoughts?
no problems really. It was mentione dhere and there, but it snot like an MX bike where its super noticeable.
generally with low flywheel weight we end up changing gears too often ? i think HPI offer a fly wheel add on weight ? but 50w is way too low
anyone using a chinnoy ignition here ? any thoughts ? it uses a heavier flywheel and thicker coils. gives 150w +
Quote from: rd400canuck on May 15, 2020, 01:28:25 PM
Not wanting to hijack here but something I never heard anyone mention is how the bike's power behaves with almost no flywheel weight with the HPI? Especially in low rpms and clutching in first gear. I have HPI unit I will install as soon as I get jetting 100%.
Only reason I ask is because I am a fan of smooth easy to use power... but ive never actually driving a bike that's practically had its flywheel weight removed.
Thoughts?
Faster acceleration and deceleration. So if you roll off the throttle the motor rests a lot quicker tha. With the added mass helping it along. Motor responds quicker, etc.
I notice that if you blip the throttle, clutch disengaged, it settles back to idle quickly.
Quote from: 2t Fan on May 15, 2020, 02:48:11 PM
generally with low flywheel weight we end up changing gears too often ? i think HPI offer a fly wheel add on weight ? but 50w is way too low
anyone using a chinnoy ignition here ? any thoughts ? it uses a heavier flywheel and thicker coils. gives 150w +
I bought a Chinoy ignition around 20 years ago. At least then build quality was totally crap. Stator plate was an extremely poor brass casting, poorly machined. Not in the least compatible with Vape.
In any case, the crankshaft provides the bulk of the rotating mass and inertia anyway, so the mass and inertia of the ignition/alternator is not that critical for a street bike. If someone were building a flat tracker, maybe it would be beneficial to add some more flywheel.
^ exactly correct on all accounts.
IF you need to keep the revs up on a corner, learn throttle control. ;)
but, TBH, as stated, the crank on an rd is so heavy anyway, under real world use, there's no real negative as far as crank inertia vs an mzb or stock as far as I can see. but the motor is more responsive with some weight removed. On a single, would def matter more. :twocents:
Another thought, the light rotor helps with stress on the crank. If you have a high rev motor I think the stock heavy rotor can cause the crank to start to spread where the rod pin and thrust washers are on that side. No proof, but mine did that once.
Quote from: rd400canuck on May 15, 2020, 01:28:25 PM
Not wanting to hijack here but something I never heard anyone mention is how the bike's power behaves with almost no flywheel weight with the HPI? Especially in low rpms and clutching in first gear. I have HPI unit I will install as soon as I get jetting 100%.
Only reason I ask is because I am a fan of smooth easy to use power... but ive never actually driving a bike that's practically had its flywheel weight removed.
Thoughts?
Just get the jetting close...It will change when you add the HPI with a more aggressive timing curve!
Most likely will want bigger pilot jet and a leaner main jet.
Chuck
IMO,
I have said before...stock engines like more aggressive timing curves and more modified engines don't need a real aggressive curves.
HPI are nice for a bare bones kind of bike, I do use mostly the Powerdynomo/Vape CDI more for a robust system.
Chuck
Plenty of information on the VAPE. Despite being around for awhile now, the HPI system have just gotten more attention with more people putting their input/review on the product. There are pros and cons to each system, its really what you want to get out of the system. I would suggest reading up on Chuck's thread on the HPI and read about the VAPE/MZB/Powerdynamo in varies other threads. :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: