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The 2-Stroke Garage => Turning Wrenches => Topic started by: Jessup on March 14, 2019, 07:14:52 AM

Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Jessup on March 14, 2019, 07:14:52 AM
Could've been answered in one sentence: Type F auto transmission oil

Facts are more credible than marketing blurb

(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f03i-2y3jPA/VkhN5DRgM-I/AAAAAAAAAEY/6ZVRl6XHnmI/s320/automatic_transmission.gif)
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: sav0r (CL MotoTech) on March 14, 2019, 08:20:04 AM
Got any facts to back that up?

I use automatic transmission in mine, but I also do that because I'm cheap and my gearboxes don't see hard conditions. And with stiff clutch springs and in spec plates my clutch tended to slip on gearbox oils. Also, since my RD like to mark it's territory the red is easy to identify.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: ~JM~ on March 14, 2019, 09:28:31 AM
Quote from: Jessup on March 14, 2019, 07:14:52 AM
Could've been answered in one sentence: Type F auto transmission oil

Facts are more credible than marketing blurb

What is the shear strength of Type F ATF?
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: bitzz on March 14, 2019, 11:54:59 AM
I just want to add; If you're using gearlube be sure to use GL4 rated for the yellow metal in the trans.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Hawaii-Mike on March 14, 2019, 02:39:05 PM
Kawi triple guys recommend Supertech 80-90w gear oil dino (not synthetic) sold at Walmart.  I've been using it on my triples for years with zero problems.  Maybe not the very best but for cost/benefit it's great.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on March 14, 2019, 03:25:00 PM
I run nothing but Lucas 80\90 in all my 2 stroke transmissions for thousands of hard street miles. I have never had an oil related failure .
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: SoCal250 on March 14, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
I run only Bel-Ray Gearsaver

Following the advice of a very wise man who told me back in 2010, "Bel-Ray Gearsaver 80w for street (75w for race bike)"  8)
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Jessup on March 14, 2019, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: ~JM~ on March 14, 2019, 09:28:31 AMWhat is the shear strength of Type F ATF?

Strong enough for drag car transmissions, and giant quarry dumper truck transmissions.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Jessup on March 14, 2019, 04:50:20 PM
Quote from: sav0r on March 14, 2019, 08:20:04 AMmy RD like to mark it's territory

PTFE tape on drain plug threads :thumbs:
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: pdxjim on March 14, 2019, 06:58:36 PM
For the past 5-7 years or so, I have used Rotella T4 in all my bikes.

No issues and only like $12 a gallon.

I'm sure proper gear oil is better, tho.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: SUPERTUNE on March 14, 2019, 11:46:07 PM
Quote from: SoCal250 on March 14, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
I run only Bel-Ray Gearsaver

Following the advice of a very wise man who told me back in 2010, "Bel-Ray Gearsaver 80w for street (75w for race bike)"  8)

I'm with you Russ, I only use Bel-Ray 80w in all my streetbike builds...except in the race bikes I use 75w for the most HP I can get.
I have best R&D Motorsports race prepped trannys and when you spend $600 on this, the most expensive oil is cheap!
Ed, if you want the tranny to last, just use the belray 75W. I changed my transmission oil every 2 race weekends. (200-250 miles)
I put 3 years of hard road racing on my transmission without any failure's.
Chuck
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: sav0r (CL MotoTech) on March 15, 2019, 10:47:25 AM
In some of our dog box and sequential race cars, all with dry clutches mind you, we have run some fancy Roush 0 weight oil. The performance is there, longevity isn't much of a concern as we operate about 20% under maximum loading and stacks are replaced at the first sign of depredation. I assume it would perform well in an RD as well. I think the ultimate oil is going to be highly dependent on what you are trying to achieve.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: SoCal250 on March 15, 2019, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: SUPERTUNE on March 14, 2019, 11:46:07 PM
Quote from: SoCal250 on March 14, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
I run only Bel-Ray Gearsaver

Following the advice of a very wise man who told me back in 2010, "Bel-Ray Gearsaver 80w for street (75w for race bike)"  8)

I'm with you Russ, I only use Bel-Ray 80w in all my streetbike builds...except in the race bikes I use 75w for the most HP I can get.
I have best R&D Motorsports race prepped trannys and when you spend $600 on this, the most expensive oil is cheap!
Ed, if you want the tranny to last, just use the belray 75W. I changed my transmission oil every 2 race weekends. (200-250 miles)
I put 3 years of hard road racing on my transmission without any failure's.
Chuck


Hi Chuck, I think you know the "very wise man" I referred to in my previous post!  ;D 
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: oxford on March 15, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
I used type f in my KTM 200 with no issues.  I am sure that transmission took way more abuse than a rd trans does.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: forexer on March 16, 2019, 12:42:44 AM
Quote from: SoCal250 on March 14, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
I run only Bel-Ray Gearsaver

Great Stuff and worth the money  :thumbs:
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: m in sc on March 16, 2019, 11:39:00 PM
ive used it all, to be honest, i get the best bearing life using 75 wt gear oil. Ive had 2 gears go out mid ride on bellray. I know, not the norm and im not nec blaming the oil, but ive never had an issue using plain gear oil. Just valvoline stuff.

I never had an issue using type f to be honest, but the cling properties arent that good. Keep in mind, type F is used in a system with a PUMP pushing it around.  :twocents:
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Alain2 on March 17, 2019, 10:06:11 AM
I use cheap motorcycle 10w40, Castrol Grand-Prix or Motomaster on the bikes I use less.
I use Maxima MTL 80 in the bike I use more often.

The red stuff stinks, I don't want it near my garage.
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: 2strokesforever on March 20, 2019, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: Jessup on March 14, 2019, 04:50:20 PM
Quote from: sav0r on March 14, 2019, 08:20:04 AMmy RD like to mark it's territory

PTFE tape on drain plug threads :thumbs:

Atctually thumbs down.

Those are straight threads. YAMAHA put a fiber washer on it for  reason. your just asking to strip the case out by over torquing it.

I seconf Belray Gear saver. Good stuff.

To be honest ATF isnt really ideal for this application. Furthermore, if you know anyone that does any serious drag racing with more than 7-800 hp atf even type F is not used.....
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Jessup on March 20, 2019, 11:32:10 PM
Quote from: 2strokesforever on March 20, 2019, 09:46:25 PM

Atctually thumbs down.

Those are straight threads. YAMAHA put a fiber washer on it for  reason. your just asking to strip the case out by over torquing it.

Never stripped sump threads. Never relied on torque numbers. Always nipped up with a plain ring spanner. To each their own :whistle:
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Robert58 on April 05, 2019, 09:26:43 AM
Ive been using Bel Ray 80-90 wt Gearsaver on advise of Gary from Spec II with no problems
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: thatguy on April 07, 2019, 05:54:46 PM
After trying just about everything I returned to 10W30 recommended by the manufacturer. I've never had a transmission failure on any bike I've owned. Worn parts out but no breakage regardless of oil used. Clean oil is best.
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: motodreams on April 23, 2019, 10:28:58 PM

My question would be, has anyone personally had a transmission failure due to using an oil in a motorcycle transmission?  I'm not talking 800hp drag cars, real life failure in normal conditions.  Also excluding clutch slippage due to long life additives as that would be simply incorrect application IMO.

I have never and have ridden hard for decades.  Run all sorts of oils from manufacturer recommended to dino motor oil (often actually recommended by manufacturer) and not had issues.

Many of the dirt bikes I have purchase have potentially never had the transmission oil changed and the gears are fine.

I have read the literature and although i'm sure the shear qualities are better but I think you are looking at the margin and talking microsheers that would take a million miles to accumulate.

Personally I feel the expensive oils are money down the drain unless you feel you are getting better shifting. 
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Banshee Hp on April 24, 2019, 12:18:12 AM
Mobil 1 5w30 full synthetic
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Redbird on April 24, 2019, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: 2strokesforever on March 20, 2019, 09:46:25 PM
Quote from: sav0r on March 14, 2019, 08:20:04 AMmy RD like to mark it's territory
...YAMAHA put a fiber washer on it for  reason...

Thank you for this ;)
I had completely overlooked that reason as to why mine was "marking her territory" too.
Couple of bucks to Economy Cycle later, and no more drips on the shop floor  ;D
Title: Re: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: daniel4616 on April 24, 2019, 02:26:03 PM
Quote from: SoCal250 on March 15, 2019, 07:24:09 PM
Quote from: SUPERTUNE on March 14, 2019, 11:46:07 PM
Quote from: SoCal250 on March 14, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
I run only Bel-Ray Gearsaver

Following the advice of a very wise man who told me back in 2010, "Bel-Ray Gearsaver 80w for street (75w for race bike)"  8)

I'm with you Russ, I only use Bel-Ray 80w in all my streetbike builds...except in the race bikes I use 75w for the most HP I can get.
I have best R&D Motorsports race prepped trannys and when you spend $600 on this, the most expensive oil is cheap!
Ed, if you want the tranny to last, just use the belray 75W. I changed my transmission oil every 2 race weekends. (200-250 miles)
I put 3 years of hard road racing on my transmission without any failure's.
Chuck


Hi Chuck, I think you know the "very wise man" I referred to in my previous post!  ;D

Chuck helped build my bike years back, probably doesn't remember it has been so long. He told me the same thing, and I have listened and never had an issue either.  ;D
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: EE on April 24, 2019, 06:44:13 PM
Quote from: motodreams on April 23, 2019, 10:28:58 PM

My question would be, has anyone personally had a transmission failure due to using an oil in a motorcycle transmission?  I'm not talking 800hp drag cars, real life failure in normal conditions.  Also excluding clutch slippage due to long life additives as that would be simply incorrect application IMO.

I have never and have ridden hard for decades.  Run all sorts of oils from manufacturer recommended to dino motor oil (often actually recommended by manufacturer) and not had issues.

Many of the dirt bikes I have purchase have potentially never had the transmission oil changed and the gears are fine.

I have read the literature and although i'm sure the shear qualities are better but I think you are looking at the margin and talking microsheers that would take a million miles to accumulate.

Personally I feel the expensive oils are money down the drain unless you feel you are getting better shifting.

Here's the reasons I have looked at this issue a number of times over the years and revisit it: 1) As a racer I need any hp advantage available, BUT ALSO 2) as an RD racer I/we don't have the worlds largest racing budgets.. period.. so I/we need our expensively undercut trannies to last.. and 3) as an engine builder I've rebuilt just mountians of THESE engines litteraly.. and had to be the guy to completely disassemble, inspect and try to save peoples RD Trannies with an ever dwindling supply of descent used parts. These trannies had thin gears riding in many areas over splined shafts that's bad enough, not pressure fed, not filtered, not modern designed, add low oil levels or cheap oil, and I have replaced too many gears in these bikes to count anymore.. You wanna run cheap oil? Not me. Ed
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: ~JM~ on April 24, 2019, 08:12:03 PM
High quality lube, changed often, is cheap insurance.

Parts supplies are dwindling.
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Old Brit on April 25, 2019, 01:30:07 AM
I'm with Chuck on this one, it's a gearbox so use gear oil  :umm:
I've never used anything other than an 80w GL4  in a street bike and have never suffered a failure or excessive wear issues as a consequence in nearly 50yrs.
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Alain2 on April 25, 2019, 11:48:04 AM
Quote from: Old Brit on April 25, 2019, 01:30:07 AM
I'm with Chuck on this one, it's a gearbox so use gear oil  :umm:
I've never used anything other than an 80w GL4  in a street bike and have never suffered a failure or excessive wear issues as a consequence in nearly 50yrs.

Do you use Universal Tractor Transmission Oil (GL-4)? That would be cheap to replace often.
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: MRDRcycle on July 01, 2019, 06:56:15 PM
Can someone tell me how many liters of transmission fluid a 73' RD350 holds? I can't find my manual :haw:
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: Czakky on July 01, 2019, 07:28:48 PM
1600cc atleast an R5....
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: ~JM~ on July 01, 2019, 08:37:34 PM
Quote from: MRDRcycle on July 01, 2019, 06:56:15 PM
Can someone tell me how many liters of transmission fluid a 73' RD350 holds? I can't find my manual :haw:

Look at the engine case near the fill hole. I believe the quantity is listed in cc.
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: SUPERTUNE on July 01, 2019, 11:15:27 PM
Wet change, just drain plug...1500cc
Dry fill, (new engine rebuild) or a complete drain with the clutch side cover off...1600cc

Chuck
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: MRDRcycle on September 21, 2019, 04:34:34 PM
I'm looking at using maxima MTL 80wt. Is that a good wt for normal street use?
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: SoCal250 on September 21, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=251.msg1468#msg1468
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: old-too-smoker on September 24, 2019, 02:04:24 PM
I say theres lots of options, trans fluid, motor oil, synthetics etc,  and most are equivalent, the main thing to remember is change it often, the cleaner it is, the less problems.
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: RdsOnly on September 25, 2019, 05:06:32 PM
Worked for Honda shop - Torco 20/50, Yamaha shops Torco 20/50.
I was sponsored by castrol so I use castrol 20/50 no issues.

Gear saver works great but pricey.

If your oil foams it is not suited for wet clutch.


JT
Title: Re: The Best Possible Transmission Oil
Post by: EE on September 28, 2019, 01:11:06 AM
http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=241.0 (http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=241.0)