2 STROKE WORLD .net

The 2-Stroke Garage => Turning Wrenches => Topic started by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 08:41:42 AM

Title: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 08:41:42 AM
While researching replacement oil pump cables I just discovered Tech Bulletin M8-015C in the library which describes two different oil pumps for 250/350 twins. What's not clear to me is which one do I have in my 1975 RD250 motor. I would assume the later model but can someone confirm? Is there a way to visually check?
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 09, 2022, 08:47:02 AM
fyi, the 250 and 350 pumps are also different, the ring gear in there is a different tooth count between 250/350.

do you have a pic? the later ones will typically have the pin retainer tab under the nut on the end of the plunger shaft that holds the pulley on.
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 08:54:44 AM
I think I found the answer. The Tech Bulletin in the library appears to be missing Page 1. I found the full bulletin (attached) and on Page 1 lists the engine numbers for old vs new.
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 09, 2022, 09:30:09 AM
Yeah, basically the difference is between A/B models and 250/350 variants.

The pdf isn't working for me.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 09, 2022, 10:10:31 AM
see if this works:

(https://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2SW-BUSINESS/op1.jpg)
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 10:44:15 AM
My engine number is 352-306071 which would mean old-style pump. Here are a few pics in case it might have been replaced with a new-style. Can anyone confirm or do I need to pull the worm gear out to verify?
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 10:46:04 AM
Forgot to add.....oil pump cable length is 325mm outer and 575mm inner in case it helps.
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 09, 2022, 10:51:20 AM
looks to be the newer style pump, but im no expert.. did it ever have issues? id feel ok running it.
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 11:22:36 AM
This is the motor I picked up at Barber VF last year so I've not yet had it running. I bench tested the pump and it seems to work. The issue I'm having is which cable do I need ... the old (longer) one or the new (shorter) one. The cable I have is frayed. I have a Wanted post out for a replacement:
http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=4174.0
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 09, 2022, 11:28:37 AM
Looks like the old pump to me. Interesting how it says the later 350 has a 214 part numbered wormshaft; fine with 9 threads.
The 214 shaft actually has 7 complete threads.
Never seen 9 threads on the 350.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 11:44:20 AM
Pic of the worm shaft. I would guess this is the old-style (coarse). What say ye?
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 09, 2022, 11:46:08 AM
does it slide into the pump and turn it smoothly? to me, thats the bigger question. 
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 11:51:29 AM
Yes it slides in easy and turns the pump no problem.
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 09, 2022, 12:07:25 PM
Thats a 5 turn shaft. Meshes with a 40 tooth pump gear, RD250A.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 09, 2022, 12:08:33 PM
You will need a new seal for that shaft now.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 10, 2022, 11:49:30 AM
Mystery solved. Old pump it is. Thanks to all who chimed in on this. Will order appropriate cable (and a new seal)
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 10, 2022, 12:00:00 PM
how can you tell the diff between new and old style? tooth count only or?
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: BlueR32 on February 10, 2022, 12:20:33 PM
Process of deduction I guess based on my engine number and what Arrow said:
" Thats a 5 turn shaft. Meshes with a 40 tooth pump gear, RD250A."
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 10, 2022, 01:19:36 PM
I stated it was the older pump before we saw the shaft.
The brass nozzles were the big clue. The B model had steel outlet nozzles.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 10, 2022, 01:43:18 PM
i know, just wasn't sure what visual cue you used to identify it, that makes sense.  Now I know, thanks.  :patriot:
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: soonerbillz on February 10, 2022, 04:34:49 PM
So some Rd250-350 pumps can be used in YD7 & R5 motors?
  As long as they are the "early" version?
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: m in sc on February 10, 2022, 04:44:24 PM
you can use ds7 pumps in rd250 motors as long as the ds7 drive shaft with worm gear is used, and vice versa. same with rd350/r5. pump and shaft should match. This ive actually done before.

I have a hybrid RZ/R5 pump on my 70 r5, uses an RZ housing with R5 internal gear... rz lower shaft, and an r5 top cover, plunger shaft and pulley.  :omg: theres options. I would NOT recommend tearing into oil pumps if you don't like small tiny parts and are super confident in your mechanical abilities.   

Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 10, 2022, 04:56:38 PM
Yes, I've swapped lots of pumps around when necessary. On the change over from early to later pumps, there is the issue whether to use a thrust washer on the end of the wormshaft, or not.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: soonerbillz on February 10, 2022, 07:24:46 PM
So here are 2 "old" style pumps.
The one on the left out of a yd7 the one on the right from a r5.
Why is the inlet port clocked different between the two?
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: SoCal250 on February 10, 2022, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: BlueR32 on February 09, 2022, 08:54:44 AM
I think I found the answer. The Tech Bulletin in the library appears to be missing Page 1.
Thnks for pointing that out. :thumbs: I have fixed the files in the Tech Library to include 2 pages. Both PDF and JPEG are now posted there
Title: Re: Which Oil Pump Do I Have?
Post by: Arrow on February 11, 2022, 04:49:18 AM
Quote from: soonerbillz on February 10, 2022, 07:24:46 PM
So here are 2 "old" style pumps.
The one on the left out of a yd7 the one on the right from a r5.
Why is the inlet port clocked different between the two?
I don't know why the need for the (earlier) inlet nozzle position. Also the brass nozzles could be different here. The early one had a smaller diameter where it fits in the casting, and the valve seat is direct in the Aluminium, with no rubber valve insert.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk