Seems the old girl (71' R5) is losing power. Last summer she ran better on 145 mains, I tried 150s and it ran the same. I went through the ignition, checked points, timing etc.
Two things I've noticed. When shooting the right cylinder with a timing gun it seems like it wasn't firing as consistently as the left...? Not sure if that's possible but I tried again when the bike is cold and it seemed better. As I type this I'm remembering that the points were absolutely not arcing at all, which I'm not sure I've ever seen perfect points like that. Not sure what that says.
The other thing is with fresh plugs it runs great.
So I'm looking at the coils, particularly the right side. Do coils get weak with age when hot? Or are they a worky, no worky type deal?
Thanks for any help
they go with age. replace both, and the condensors with new
It's been said that the stock style replacement coils from Economy Cycle are really good and provide a strong spark.
https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/electrical-ignitions-lighting/ignition/replacement-ignition-coil-kit-rdr5yds67-coils-caps-wires-for-rdr5yds67/ (https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/electrical-ignitions-lighting/ignition/replacement-ignition-coil-kit-rdr5yds67-coils-caps-wires-for-rdr5yds67/)
Bad coils can act up when hot too.
Thanks for the replies.
Points and condensers are new last year. The coils are what look like silver Emgos from previous owner. I'll put my order in with economy.
Ditch those emgo coils, high failure rate with those..
Yes, I've have the same issues before. Coils will go with age and heat.
Your on the right track.
Chuck
:vroom:
+1 on replacing the condenser first, then the coils. I've had two condensers quite and only one cylinder failed, not both.
Rob
As far as condensers go I replaced those last winter, although this winter I had a pretty (for me) in depth overhaul on an old Guzzi and wouldn't you know two bad brand new condensers... Put the 40+ year old condensers on and she's never missed a beat. Your mind goes to some dark places when you spend that much time bringing an old machine back to life and after a few hundred miles it starts running like crap.
So to recap my issue, a loss of some power and the points look like they run clean (no sparking/arcing). They are gapped and timing was checked dynamically.
Either way new coils on the way from Economy Cycle.
I had issues with my coil. Searched all around for this issue, checked my fuel, petcock, timing, condensors, points...turns out that I just needed new coils. It was a nightmare to fish around for because I thought it was a fuel issues at first, then thought my timing had slip, but it was just the OEM coils.
Changed them out and never looked back. A good way to know in the future is that if your bike runs well at cold start and your bike only starts to fire on one side when it hot. I also noticed that when it was higher RPMs, my bike would not fail but once I got to the lower rpm, there wasn't enough juice to ignite the fuel. GOOD LUCK!
If the mailman beats the thunderstorm by enough time I might be able to report how the new coils perform shortly.
piece of advice. on t he new coils, put a dab of silicone on the metal connections on the body of the coil to insulate them. :twocents:
I didn't catch your post M, but I had the same idea anyway.
She runs a bit better now. Just the same as it did last summer. Thanks for verifying my hunch. :whoop:
The only mod I made over the winter was adding clear oil injector lines. They have been solid every time I looked at em. Except today, the right side is getting an air gap of about an inch long. I'm going to have to see about the check valve in the pump....
which is the most powerful coils available for points set up?
can we use DYNATEK 5 OHM DC10-1 coils on points/TCI RD ignition?
Yes, pretty much that's available for old points ignitions unless you want to go the old car coil route.
I still have the Dyna S pickups and run the DC3-1 3 ohm coils.
So this is wandering off topic. But it went from minor to major it appears.
Went for a ride yesterday and after priming my oil pump to fill that one inch air gap on the oil lines off I went. Running as good as she ever has then after about four miles I tried to whack open the throttle in a high gear. It bogs out like it's not getting gas, I look at my fuel lines everything looks fine. Now I'm bee lining home at a low throttle and things get worse and she dies. My oil lines are halfway empty.... plenty of oil in the tank. I rebuilt this pump a little over a year ago and it has at least 1500 miles on it since being rebuilt. Phone my wife and she delivers a bottle of oil. I drain the float bowls and mix my tank at 32:1 or better. On with the fuel tap and kick, kick, kick, nothing. Keep in mind the bike has sat for at least twenty minutes at this point and was only warm.
It finally starts and runs good for a few miles then dies right before my drive way. Now it sits and I'm a bit gutted.
When it died the first time I kicked it a couple times and it definitely didn't feel tight. FWIW.
Did she seize? Twice? Why would this happen after new coils?
What is the bike?
Going back to the basics here- how do the plugs look?
Bad coils can foul plugs. Did you change them when you changed the coils?
Did you eliminate the ballast resistor? Your new coils won't need it - not sure if R5s had that or not.
Quote from: Czakky on June 02, 2019, 10:10:25 AM
Did she seize? Twice? Why would this happen after new coils?
Have you pulled the headpipes and looked at the pistons through the exhaust port? A sieze will be evident there. If it did sieze I don't think your coil issue is related. It sounds like you may have had an oil or fuel starvation issue. Since the exact problem really isn't known you will want to start checking things to determine exactly what happened, and then once you know the issue (siezure, weak/bad ignition, etc.), then try to determine why it happened. Hopefully it's something minor like an ignition issue that's easy to resolve and not a siezure.
Check the plugs as mentioned above. Also, when was the last time the timing was set/checked? You may want to verify it's still correct, especially if you see anything abnormal on the piston skirts.
@barrie. I modified my avatar
@organicjedi. I did not change the plugs I was going to do that but never got around to it.
I thought that R5s didn't need an additional ballast resistor...?
@socal250. I can pull the head pipes out again. I just did a leak test a couple weeks ago when I was first having running issues.
Timing was checked at the same time.
I will check plugs soon. I think I have to not look at her for a while.
Thanks for the help guys.
So the oil pump is definitely not pumping. Which is awesome! :bang: That doesn't explain why it died/seized the second time with a tank full of pre-mix. Unless pre-mix effects jetting that much.
Plugs didn't look oil fouled. Left was a bit wet, but it started up and idled.
I still have more investigating to do, but what should I do with an engine that seized? Will it kill the bottom end? Did it already? I don't hear any piston slap.
Quote from: Czakky on June 02, 2019, 07:50:29 PM
So the oil pump is definitely not pumping. Which is awesome! :bang: That doesn't explain why it died/seized the second time with a tank full of pre-mix. Unless pre-mix effects jetting that much.
Plugs didn't look oil fouled. Left was a bit wet, but it started up and idled.
I still have more investigating to do, but what should I do with an engine that seized? Will it kill the bottom end? Did it already? I don't hear any piston slap.
Ouch, sorry to hear that! :(
Sounds like you found the problem. No oil = no lubrication = VERY bad. This results in excessive heat, and metal vs. metal direct contact. This causes a seizure.
Why it siezed again after you stopped and let it cool off?...
Once it's seized, a subsequent siezure is likely since the conditions are the same (or nearly the same) and the piston skirts and cylinder walls have been scuffed. Your switch to pre-mix was likely too late to do much good since the majority of the damage was already done.
It's time to pull the barrels to check the extent of the the damage.
Quote from: Czakky on June 02, 2019, 07:50:29 PM
Unless pre-mix effects jetting that much.
Premix requires richer jetting, I'm not sure how much richer but oil displaces fuel, so more oil means less fuel which mean its going to run leaner. But as Russ said, the damage was probably already done. As far as how much damage, well, that depends on how long you ran it. Sounds like quite a ways so you should split the cases and check out the crank, etc.
Quote from: Jspooner on June 02, 2019, 11:12:22 PM
Quote from: Czakky on June 02, 2019, 07:50:29 PM
Unless pre-mix effects jetting that much.
Premix requires richer jetting, I'm not sure how much richer but oil displaces fuel, so more oil means less fuel which mean its going to run leaner. But as Russ said, the damage was probably already done. As far as how much damage, well, that depends on how long you ran it. Sounds like quite a ways so you should split the cases and check out the crank, etc.
Good point. Going to pre-mix leaned up the mixture on a possibly already damaged engine.
Pull off the top end, inspect the damage. If it's not too bad, then hone it out and get new a piston and rings. If it is bad, then just get a whole new top end. Might as well change out your gaskets while you're at it. Good luck!
That's pretty much the plan Quocle. How well does a crank survive an oil related seizure usually?
Quote from: Czakky on June 04, 2019, 10:27:38 AM
That's pretty much the plan Quocle. How well does a crank survive an oil related seizure usually?
Its a gamble, normally the pistons would seize first and then that's usually then end of it and the crank would/could/should survive, but it sounds like you kept riding it so who knows, I would not take that gamble, I would just split the motor and check out the crank........better safe than sorry.
Quote from: Czakky on June 04, 2019, 10:27:38 AM
That's pretty much the plan Quocle. How well does a crank survive an oil related seizure usually?
Take the top end off first and post or send me pics, unless you burned a hole all the way through the piston... yes, do a full teardown.
Minor seizures don't hurt the crank. fix topend and put back on.
Chuck
I will try and post pics as soon as I can.
Hello
What plug wire i should use with Dynatek 3 ohm DC3-1 coils ? Which type connectors on either side ? bit confused
Cap will screw on, 7mm copper core wire.
ok, and code for the terminals to be used at the coil ens and cap end ? Dynatek wire DW-800 is ideal ?
Quote from: Czakky on June 04, 2019, 12:20:31 PM
I will try and post pics as soon as I can.
What became of this? I'm curious to know
Dyna high power coils are fine using static suppression wires, use copper core wires on most stock Yamaha coils.
I would buy the DW-1200 wire set not the DW-800 this way you don't have to buy/change plug caps to 90* degrees ones.
(when using static suppression wires DON'T use 5K resistor caps)
I do admit this is the only Harley part on my RD Yamaha! (they came with my dyna coils)
Chuck
Quote from: rd400canuck on November 17, 2019, 07:57:53 AM
Quote from: Czakky on June 04, 2019, 12:20:31 PM
I will try and post pics as soon as I can.
What became of this? I'm curious to know
I had a seizure, eventually found it was due to oil starvation. I tried two different oil pumps rebuilt both of them, same issue in the left cylinder. I've now got a third oil pump at Chuck's to be rebuilt along with a whole lot of other parts.
Quote from: SUPERTUNE on November 17, 2019, 08:04:14 AM
Dyna high power coils are fine using static suppression wires, use copper core wires on most stock Yamaha coils.
I would buy the DW-1200 wire set not the DW-800 this way you don't have to buy/change plug caps to 90* degrees ones.
(when using static suppression wires DON'T use 5K resistor caps)
I do admit this is the only Harley part on my RD Yamaha! (they came with my dyna coils)
Chuck
Thanks...plug cap on it is suitable for nut type or stud terminal ?
The DW-1200 use the tops with them, not the terminal stem.
C
Thanks for quick reply :)
Scary how something like oil starvation can mimic ignition problems. These old two-strokes can be a real pain sometimes. I had an RD400G and it never ran properly after a complete rebuild. It was one thing after the next and it was always such a chore to try and diagnose it.
Pre mix is a pain and messy having to carry that oil around. I don't like it much at all. But what I like less is having an issue with an oil pump like you did.
So pre-mix it is.
Maybe for the amount I will drive this thing... odd evening and weekend jaunt I might go the premix route as well. I could just have one of those little bottles under the seat ready and measured for a tank of gas in case I need it.