Hello,
long story, hoping someone has some insight on this.
Last year at the gap meet, Mark ride my bike and said he was hearing a ping at 8500 rpm and I need to be careful. He also suggested I get a Zeeltronic to back timing off after 8K.
Well I did not get one and seized it about 4 weeks before this years meet. Just had to hone it and add new pistons. I did order a Zeeltronic from EC and took it up with me to the gap. Chuck said he can install it for me.
We did just that and did not change timing. It was set at 21 degrees before. After installing it per the instructions we added a very simple program to do nothing from 100-7500 and then back off 5 degrees at 7500-8500 and then 5 more from 8500-10500. rev limiter set at 10500.
now, under load it struggles to get back 6200 rpm. after that it rips but seems to break up around 9500-10000.
We tried to re-program a few times no difference.
The instructions said to use resistor plugs and plug caps and we did. I swapped the resistors out of non-resistor, no change.
The instructions tells you to add a supplied resistor between the yellow and white wires coming off the pickup.
I am wondering if this may be part of the problem and was going to remove it next.
I reached out to the manufacture and they were super nice but not helpful.
Any suggestions are welcome, worst care, I uninstall this and back the timing off a little.
Thanks
Paul
That should run fine timed like that. Maybe a little advanced at 7500, most would be back to 18 degrees. Did you make marks and time it with a light? I don't think the running problem is the timing.
Have you loaded a flat curve and shot it with a timing light? Where did you install the rotor timing wise and did you update same in the zeel box for your static timing? This is always step 1 to make sure you have control of the curve. For clocking of the rotor, check your highest point in the curve you're running and make sure the rotor carries at least that much advance.
exaclty. i think the baseline of 21 degrees is off.
The rotor never moved from what it was installed 3 years ago (9mm BTC)
It was checked via dial indicator and light to verify before installing the box. After the programing, checked with light and when revved it went to the retard position.
It always ran fine. I never noticed the ping Mark was hearing. I only wanted to retard the timing a little to avoid the ping and stop (help stop) seizure. We left the base static timing the way it was (right about 9mm).
Being the rotor was never moved I assumed it was something to do with the resistors that were added or the unit. Again, it ran perfect before and the only thing changed was adding the box.
Yes, I tried to do a no curve curve and no change.
verify with a light.
9mm?
(https://2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/general-tech/ignitions/MMTODEGREES_zps8b09298d.jpg)
sorry, 1.9. what it was set at when installed by Chuck.
so thinking about this, my offset would 0.
am I correct? if yes, how would I program this in?
no. your static is 17.9 degrees if it is indeed at 1.9 mmbtdc. assuming it's at 21 degrees, THATS what you set the static to. static is where the trigger actually fires the sensor. then your 5 degrees retarded is 16 degrees. so program it at 21.0 at the lowest rpm, then 21.0 at the highest rpm you want it to be at 21.0 (7500). then program it at 16 degrees where you want it to be. (8500). or so. remember, if you don't do this it will I interpolate the curve between the changes.
Thanks Mark. I will try this again when I get home. That is what I was trying to do but very well could be I messed it up.
Any suggestions on a timing light that woks on 2 strokes? I don't want to spend a ton of cash and hope to only use it 1 time.
thanks
Paul
something like this. yes, it has a 2 stroke setting
https://ebay.us/m/VzaW8K
or search this:
KZYEE KT60 Digital Timing Light with Tachometer
I have an actron version of this, older, thats always treated me right. i also have an innova thats... alwayy been very sensitive and a bit too sensitive.
Thank you Mark. I ordered it yesterday and when I got home, it was at my door.
I did try and re-program it and think it saved but I really cannot tell. It is the part after finishing the program that I am confused.
I will verify timing, mark rotor, get a pointer together and check.
thanks for all the help so far...
save ign curve, (pick 1 or 2 or whatever). load ignition curve (same number). escape out of all of it and watch the controller screen.
I think I figured it out.
I watched the timing on the handheld while running.
It was set to start to pull timing at 3500.
I set a new curve and watching the handheld it is what I was shooting for.
I will still use timing light to verify once the dial gauge arrives.
Test ride pending.
there you go. the learning curve is sort of steep but short, you got it.
Thank you Mark for all your help and advice.
Once I found the save option on the controller and got into my head they call it a timing curve not a timing plot I was in business.
I still had a issue around 8300 with some breaking up.
I switched to resistor caps at the gap as the directions suggest. I was thinking this was part of my original problem so stopped by Wheelers and get some non resistor no name brands caps. Made no difference. To try and fix the breakup, I thought maybe the resistor plugs caps can help.
When I pulled the non resistor caps off the plugs one side the metal part that connected to the plug stayed on the plug. The other side just fell off the wire.
with the correctly installed resistor caps it now runs better that it has in years.
:clap:
Yes! :burnout: :gentleman: :whoop:
:olaf: Sweet! Congrats :cheers:
I am still having problems. Mark has been a huge help, thank you Mark. This issue of burbling/ low power at 6000-6500 started after installing the zeel at the gap. I kept thinking it had to have something to do with that. I decided to take a step back and start at the beginning and try and see what was really up.
seems to me a pressure test was a good start before messing around with jets or electronics. I borrowed the pressure test kit from John at EC. Hooked it up today and could not even get 1lb to hold. I had to actually blow in the hose to get enough air through it to see what was going on. Easy to see on the photo. These are new boots, I put them on before the meet. I had a set rip 3 years ago and wanted to be sure that did not happen again.
This may not be THE problem but it sure is one. I am going to remove the cylinders as well to be sure I did not do anything to the pistons or rings while I am waiting on the new manifolds. intakes.jpg
oh, thats a problem for sure.
I sure hope that's it. I remove the one cylinder and it looks perfect. I was worried I may have started to burn it up. Ill hold the pressure tester until I have the new ones installed to verify that was the only leak.
Quote from: paul1478 on August 29, 2025, 12:35:11 PMI am still having problems. Mark has been a huge help, thank you Mark. This issue of burbling/ low power at 6000-6500 started after installing the zeel at the gap. I kept thinking it had to have something to do with that. I decided to take a step back and start at the beginning and try and see what was really up.
seems to me a pressure test was a good start before messing around with jets or electronics. I borrowed the pressure test kit from John at EC. Hooked it up today and could not even get 1lb to hold. I had to actually blow in the hose to get enough air through it to see what was going on. Easy to see on the photo. These are new boots, I put them on before the meet. I had a set rip 3 years ago and wanted to be sure that did not happen again.
This may not be THE problem but it sure is one. I am going to remove the cylinders as well to be sure I did not do anything to the pistons or rings while I am waiting on the new manifolds. intakes.jpg
If thats a boost bottle behind your thumb, get rid of it. All they are good for is breaking intakes
the issue with the upp manifolds) is w heavier carbs.. they can tear. chuck rean into this at the gap years ago on HIS bike. I ran into this as well, on the lc i supported the carbs (vm34s) across the back, and with the tms i'm currently running, the y boot is supported. on the r5 w rd motor, i have the top of the k&n in the y boot supported by a tool tray i made. the boost bottle isn't the issue, its the crease there makes a decent 'tear' point. just hanging them out there, boost bottle or not, they will eventually go unless they are supported. the lightweight and the lc have been running these intakes for 6+ years no tears, but they are also supported on the carb side. The other way around it is to run a billet style intake with 'conventional' rubber spigots, but this adds length to the intake.
a solution is also to mechanically link the carbs this reduces vibration and flex, a lot more than you'd think. ive done this as well with a small plate of aluminum. etc.
I had a thrill with the upp manifolds and 34mm carbs. I hit a sharp bump in the road with the throttle open and the carb fell off. The sound was like a piston shattered and my heart sank until I stopped and took a look. :eek:
Quote from: m in sc on August 30, 2025, 09:26:25 AMthe issue with the upp manifolds) is w heavier carbs.. they can tear. chuck rean into this at the gap years ago on HIS bike. I ran into this as well, on the lc i supported the carbs (vm34s) across the back, and with the tms i'm currently running, the y boot is supported. on the r5 w rd motor, i have the top of the k&n in the y boot supported by a tool tray i made. the boost bottle isn't the issue, its the crease there makes a decent 'tear' point. just hanging them out there, boost bottle or not, they will eventually go unless they are supported. the lightweight and the lc have been running these intakes for 6+ years no tears, but they are also supported on the carb side. The other way around it is to run a billet style intake with 'conventional' rubber spigots, but this adds length to the intake.
a solution is also to mechanically link the carbs this reduces vibration and flex, a lot more than you'd think. ive done this as well with a small plate of aluminum. etc.
This makes a lot of sense to me and explained a lot.