I've seen pictures. I've read stories... but I've yet to see it. Anyone care to explain the intricacies of such a job? You'd think someone would have CNC'd a bolt on conversion kit that replaces the stock cover and clutch ball setup.
Now I really want to learn CAD better. Would be :bacon:
(http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/LC-HYBRID/hyd-clutch-dark-gray-body-07/100_3270.jpg)
i quite smoking years ago. thats how old this pic is. lol.
(http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/LC-HYBRID/hyd-clutch-dark-gray-body-07/100_3261.jpg)
still on there but with stainless line. this was earlier this year.
(http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/LC-HYBRID/2020/20191215_155100-scaled.jpg)
was a ducati slave, aprilia? master, is a direct bolt on./ had to make rod extension. thats about it.
as luck would have it, i hate the plate i made, and plan on machining a cosmetically better one. i'll pass on the info when i do it. will be sooner than later. did all this by hand, didn't use cad at all. and i'm proficient in acad, sw, etc.
Oh that's bacon for sure. I look forward to the next rendition.
i'll make the plate and take pics and share dimensions. will be basic bridgeport work.
That would be sweet, wish I had access to a bridgeport. Loving the stock unit on my Superduke. Incidently where the clutch cable connects to that springy pusher that one can adjust on the side cover I wasn't able to loosen budge the nut bolt as I recall, just totally frozen even after soaking it with wd40. In my case I think it would be less hassle to get another cover to mess with it, yeah my only adjustments as of now for cable slack is at the perch :whistle:
IF the cnc mill we had here still was online id make a batch, but its not. that ridge on the cover is the MF
watch this space. might be a month or a week.
Sounds like a plan! :righteous:
I like that idea.
Instead of making the adapter plate as a bridge to get over the ridge in the side cover, would it be easier to mill a flat through that ridge? Might be six of one and half dozen of the other, but a flat surface might be simpler and stiffer.
covers not flat and its thin there. the ridge is flat(ter) though. and, it doesn't trash the cover. ;) I did an earlier one with a nighthawk master and slave, and milled the cover. didnt really like it. still have it languishing somewhere, i think, maybe.
Quote from: m in sc on July 23, 2020, 02:58:20 PM
IF the cnc mill we had here still was online id make a batch, but its not. that ridge on the cover is the MF
watch this space. might be a month or a week.
If there is some interest for this, I wouldn't be opposed to doing a batch of plates.
Depending on price I might be in.
let me make one and i'll share the info ox.
Yea I'd be down for one for sure. If I'm gonna tinker, I'm gonna tinker right lol.
Someone needs to explain why they need a hydraulic clutch on an RD. :help: :umm:
wanted it. def has a better feel to me, on that bike. :twocents:
A user on the aircooledrd forum used a Magura Hymec. Claims they have one made for a 70's XS. So, I'm going to shoot them an email and see how it works or what one I'd need. In any case, it is a completely reversible setup.
https://www.aircooledrdclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=61361.0
i talked to the guys at magura at barber back in 16 about this. I got divorced like 2 mos later so i may or may not still have the business card, (things get lost in moves, business cards, irrational emotional outbursts, etc) but they were more than willing to do a whole unit, they said it would be in the ~200 range for an rd. Engineer looked at my LC, but since it has aircooled cases its applicable. :twocents: they MAY remember me. Guy i talked to was originally from Israel i think? Ben? Not a young guy but not ancient either.
Quote from: m in sc on August 04, 2020, 10:22:22 AM
i talked to the guys at magura at barber back in 16 about this. I got divorced like 2 mos later so i may or may not still have the business card, (things get lost in moves, business cards, irrational emotional outbursts, etc) but they were more than willing to do a whole unit, they said it would be in the ~200 range for an rd. Engineer looked at my LC, but since it has aircooled cases its applicable. :twocents: they MAY remember me. Guy i talked to was originally from Israel i think? Ben? Not a young guy but not ancient either.
Oh very interesting.
yeah. basically they had the parts to do it, but needed to use a longer rod out of the cyl to reach the arm on the stock actuator, is really what it boiled down to. I'll dig in my desk at home see if i have the card, i think he even drafted up a part number. But, that was 4 years ago so. :whistle:
Mark,
I remember talking to you about the Magura setup. I spoke to the same guys, however I believe the engineer I spoke to no longer works for them.
My friend has the Magura kit installed on his RD, it was a "prototype" kit they developed for RD's (presumably from the dimensions you supplied at the time, and tested on his bike?)
I will get in contact with him, see what info he has/who to contact.
Their assemblies are modular, they put combinations of different pistons and actuator rods together to build systems. I was skeptical at first but after we installed it I was impressed. Clutch feel is great, and adjustment is automatic.
I would run one.
Actually, I think I still have the catalog from the dealer show in Kentucky...
sweet. id like to see that, might go that way on another project. :toot:
Quote from: Striker1423 on August 04, 2020, 10:04:10 AM
A user on the aircooledrd forum used a Magura Hymec. Claims they have one made for a 70's XS. So, I'm going to shoot them an email and see how it works or what one I'd need. In any case, it is a completely reversible setup.
https://www.aircooledrdclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=61361.0
With that setup, you still keep the oem actuator arm/ worm screw setup. The mod M in SC show eliminates those parts as well. Which I think is a better solution. :twocents:
Here's some pics from my 2019 Magura catalog.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/51fcecb0d06ec85d5237b526fe99c162.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/0300d795067628a50ccf87bc5f21df25.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/bd43c5e5d63eeaadd8cbc98554e1f4d1.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/d9f7dbacd54850f3ba44c161475bffd4.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200804/29f6a8a7e740454486657fa4d3fe193c.jpg)
We did this with our GT750 using an AP set. Worked out well, of course that car is a bit more of a problem. I looked at doing this for my RD, I even have a nice radial master that I was going to use. It seems like a lot of work and expense for not much gain. The clutch action even with stiff springs is pretty light, sure it's a spot grabby, but that's probably just that sloppy 46 year old lever and grody cable at work.
Machining that bracket for the direct push slave rather than pull type wouldn't be hard, but getting that contour really nice might take a try or two. It looks like it could be done in with simple A/B setup, so once setup cooking them out would be a breeze.
There are numerous of the pull type units on eBay. Cable length might be an issue, but it would be an easier adaptation than machining the bracket. At least that would be my assumption, but who really knows?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Pull-Rod-Hose-Mororcycle-Dirt-Pit-Bike-ATV-Quad/232429678876?hash=item361de3711c:g:pmwAAOSwKwVaVxij
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Refit-Hydraulic-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder-Pull-Rod-For-Mororcycle-Dirt-Pit-Bike-ATV/111969628498?hash=item1a11e8f152:g:wb4AAOSwjyZeT0Ek
tbh, i had the hyd clutch off for about 5 years. is the quality of life better with it? not particularly, but i dont ever have to adjust it. so, theres that. :twocents:
Juice clutch on my KTM has been trouble-free for 21 years now (man, all my stuff is old!). I think I've changed the oil three times. No cable to lube or adjust and it just plain works.
i've fitted 2 of these on the gt250 and gt350 engines. my mate has one fitted to his suzuki gt550 and they work perfectly. they just screw in where the clutch cable adjuster goes. you'll end up shortening the actuator rod, but that's easy. not knowing anything about yam engines, i don't know if your clutch adjuster is the same as mine [m8] these are as cheap as chips, so if it ever goes wrong, like the seal failing, just throw another one on it ;D
cheers, gil.
p.s. i changed this one to one of the black ones - they worked better. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Hydraulic-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-Rod-Brake-Pump-M10x1-25mm-Alumin-M2L/233627839141?epid=2145095047&hash=item36654deaa5:g:7OMAAOSwk-Ne8f85
(https://i.postimg.cc/brt20dVd/reedsx23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfzTqZS8)
Quote from: Gil Gallad on August 06, 2020, 09:03:04 AM
i've fitted 2 of these on the gt250 and gt350 engines. my mate has one fitted to his suzuki gt550 and they work perfectly. they just screw in where the clutch cable adjuster goes. you'll end up shortening the actuator rod, but that's easy. not knowing anything about yam engines, i don't know if your clutch adjuster is the same as mine [m8] these are as cheap as chips, so if it ever goes wrong, like the seal failing, just throw another one on it ;D
cheers, gil.
p.s. i changed this one to one of the black ones - they worked better. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Hydraulic-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-Rod-Brake-Pump-M10x1-25mm-Alumin-M2L/233627839141?epid=2145095047&hash=item36654deaa5:g:7OMAAOSwk-Ne8f85
(https://i.postimg.cc/brt20dVd/reedsx23.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MfzTqZS8)
The RD motors have a simple block the clutch cable sits in. No threads to be found on it.
you can run an m8 tap thru it. perfect hole size. I do this when i run 1st gen ninja 250 clutch cables (which are perfect for low bars and clipons :toot: )
beauty of that is, if you ever go back to stock, doesn't affect 'performance' of the block. :wave:
personally i looked at the magura kit, and the price and thought bollox to that, there must be something cheaper out there. then i found the ones above. my first thought was they were so cheap they must be crap. wrong. and the hydraulic clutch levers look like the reservoir would be too small. wrong. it all works perfectly. as i said, a good mate fitted the same set-up to his 550 and he's well pleased with it. at about £25 all in it's a steal ;D
cheers, gil.
Quote from: Gil Gallad on August 06, 2020, 04:06:58 PM
personally i looked at the magura kit, and the price and thought bollox to that, there must be something cheaper out there. then i found the ones above. my first thought was they were so cheap they must be crap. wrong. and the hydraulic clutch levers look like the reservoir would be too small. wrong. it all works perfectly. as i said, a good mate fitted the same set-up to his 550 and he's well pleased with it. at about £25 all in it's a steal ;D
cheers, gil.
Can you post a list of parts you've used for it?
i'll get back to you tomorrow. it's now 1 a.m over here in derbyshire and bed is calling ;D
cheers, gil.
Quote from: 85RZwade on August 06, 2020, 12:07:15 AM
Juice clutch on my KTM has been trouble-free for 21 years now (man, all my stuff is old!). I think I've changed the oil three times. No cable to lube or adjust and it just plain works.
Same on my 1995 Ducati M600. 25 years and 100 000 km. No issues whatsoever. Changed DOT 4 fluid every 1 or 2 years, nothing else done. I do have faith in Brembo products.
i've already posted the link to the actuator and here's the lever i use [obviously left side]: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-10mm-Handlebar-Hydraulic-Brake-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-Lever-Dirt/392803859355?hash=item5b74ef3b9b:g:vXcAAOSwGh5Zv7Lp now all you need is a stainless brake line the right length ;D
cheers, gil.
and this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100cm-Braided-Brake-Oil-Hose-Line-Stainless-Steel-Universal-Motorcycle/292655527824?epid=21021770761&hash=item4423a0f790:g:e4QAAOSwVb5bWD6v
Cheers Gil. Looks like I have a little project I can do.
Quote from: Jspooner on July 24, 2020, 12:54:53 AM
Someone needs to explain why they need a hydraulic clutch on an RD. :help: :umm:
Me too. What are the advantages?
This is the route (KTM dirt bike master and slave) I would go which is a full style hydraulic clutch conversion that omits the worm gear. The KTM setup done by dwyatt on his yellow XS650 iis compact and neat. Unfortunately, I do not have access to a lathe etc. to do the machining work.
http://www.xs650.com/threads/hydraulic-clutch-conversion-any-interest.6356/page-6
everything i used was brembo, cheap used, and has lasted extremely well. me? i had no desire to go back and reuse the worm screw if i was going hydraulic. If thats the case i would have had to deal with, i would have just kept the cable. :twocents:
Just thinking out loud:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200809/e1fa348ca6e831b1564236f9d32e449b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200809/fc2b9e52f86854a7b9be6ebd41c3303f.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200809/9a4c63974026901ba19969a69eea1805.jpg)
WoW!
Is this to scale in CAD?
This is something I whipped up this morning just as concept. Not to scale, and from memory of what the adjuster cover looks like. I could've pulled it off my bike but I was too lazy.
The size of the cover would make the piston very small diameter, so may be hard to find a master. Maybe trials bike masters...?
I just drew this to show what I thought a good clean setup could look like on a 350.
Quote from: retaRD on August 09, 2020, 04:39:23 PM
The size of the cover would make the piston very small diameter, so may be hard to find a master. Maybe trials bike masters..
This would be very doable. There were 2 guys on the Canadian triples board that did hyd. conversions on the Kawasaki's, Don(RIP), and Ned. Neds looks like it used a 7/8" diameter piston and is recommended using a Magura 9.5 master for .080"(??) of travel.
Wall thickness on both of them was pretty thin as there is limited space on the triples. Cover on the 350 on the outside measures around 1.250" wide so it has plenty of room.
I think Dons may have used an O-ring but Neds used a standard 7/8" wheel cylinder cup seal available off the shelf at Napa.
The slave looks very doable but it would require multiple fixtures on any non 4-axis machines. Seems like it could be simplified a good bit.
I took a few pictures of a Magura slave along with a spare RD350 clutch cover. The master cylinder and the slave are of a KTM.
It' really small, flat n sleek, not bulky. See below pictures.
i made one like that, on the okuma at work like 12 years ago, sort of. similar tot he triple ones. walls were too thin for an rd cover with a decent master IMHO, so i ditched it and went with the brembo one. the plate is the easiest way for that type of a setup to bypass the worm screw. could it be done? sure. I also made mine with a drum brake cup seal. I have it somewhere buried in a box i think.
Quote from: m in sc on August 09, 2020, 09:27:25 PM
i made one like that, on the okuma at work like 12 years ago, sort of. similar tot he triple ones. walls were too thin for an rd cover with a decent master IMHO, so i ditched it and went with the brembo one. the plate is the easiest way for that type of a setup to bypass the worm screw. could it be done? sure. I also made mine with a drum brake cup seal. I have it somewhere buried in a box i think.
Mark - What would be the ideal travel in mm for the clutch slave mechanism or essentially the push rod to activate/disengage the clutch on a hydraulic clutch set-up ?
8?mm i honeslty dont remember exaclty but that seems to ring a bell. I made the rod adjustable though to set the base return.
Quote from: 350GUY on August 14, 2020, 04:10:54 PM
Quote from: m in sc on August 09, 2020, 09:27:25 PM
i made one like that, on the okuma at work like 12 years ago, sort of. similar tot he triple ones. walls were too thin for an rd cover with a decent master IMHO, so i ditched it and went with the brembo one. the plate is the easiest way for that type of a setup to bypass the worm screw. could it be done? sure. I also made mine with a drum brake cup seal. I have it somewhere buried in a box i think.
Mark - What would be the ideal travel in mm for the clutch slave mechanism or essentially the push rod to activate/disengage the clutch on a hydraulic clutch set-up ?
Same as the oem setup? Measured with a caliper or dial gange.
Too litte travel=dragging clutch.
Too much travel= pressure plate rubbing on inside of cover, and excessive compression of springs/ excessive force at lever.
You should be able to measure the throw from a working stock setup pretty easily and get a pretty definitive measurement.
Pull the adjuster cover, measure how much the adjuster screw travels with the clutch pulled. Easy.
thats what i did. ^ but again, was years ago.