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Oh god, an oil thread!

Started by gwcrim, September 25, 2019, 07:48:56 PM

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SoCal250

#15
Quote from: 85RZwade on March 31, 2020, 02:02:02 AM
...on the way to Laguna Seca in '93.

I assume you went for the USGP? I was there too! :cheerleader:  Just watched the race again on Sunday night :patriot:
75 Yamaha RD125B   75 Yamaha RD125B (project)
75 Yamaha RD250B   75 Yamaha RD200B (project)
73 Yamaha RD350     77 Yamaha RD400D   79 Yamaha RD400F  
91 Yamaha TZR250R  89 Yamaha FZR400   05 Yamaha FZ6   
05 Yamaha XT225TC  82 Honda MB5  02 Aprilia RS250 Cup (sold)

85RZwade

Yes, rode to Laguna Seca with two buddies and had a great time
I post waayyy too much

bostontrackrat

Here's a different question....  What 2 stroke oil SMELLS best?   8)

Kawtriplefreak

Klotz smells like strawberries. It really does especially the super techniplate. So that's my vote.

sav0r

I always loved Elf castor. It burnt the nostrils and was nasty to deal with. But the motors ran like clock work.
www.chrislivengood.net - for my projects and musings.

Dvsrd

 IIRC, Yamaha required RZ/RD 350 YPVS owners to use only Castrol TTS fully synthetic oil for the warranty to be valid, back in the 80s. At least in Europe,
Myself, I have gottten less picky, and use this:
https://www.biltema.no/bil---mc/mc/mc-olje/2-taktsolje/totaktsolje-syntetisk-2000022980
27 dollars for 4 litres synthetic is a fair price IMHO. Available at least in Scandinavia and the Baltic countries.
Biltema is sort of equivalent to HF or maybe Pep Boys?

Liability

Yamalube 2R (or S for inj.). Lots of guys in the KTM MX world use it.

soonerbillz

I took a personal oath not to put forth any opinions in "Oil Threads" ... for safety sake.
But this is interesting reading nonetheless... so I share with you all.

http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

daves1977rd

I use the amsoil dominator.I have been using it in my Ktm 200 a long time,and that motor shows very little wear.Almost no visable smoke when used in my oilinjected RD. 400.
Jan Kurth

Clem710

Started up a very long sleeping 6%(16:1) 150cc premix single machine last year on Blendzall and Avgas, ran well, smelled good.

Drained and tried the Pennzoil multipurpose/outdoor green label and the idle was significantly higher with the same carb settings, thought wtf and threw the original stuff in and sure enough, idle was lower.  Ran well, did not smell as good:)

Slowly walked it down to 4%(25:1), its easy to drain/refuel, and exhibited similar behavior. 6% was pretty messy especially with the castor and they are commonly run at 3% with modern oils.

Used gallons of purple Sea and Snow but was never all that impressed with it aside from it being easy to tell it was mixed and years ago ran gallons of the old tcw3 walmart oil at 25:1 in lots of 250cc dirtbikes, dont think I've ever had a solely oil related problem aside from losing an injector line on the RD350.

Quite a few years back I used the weedeater as a test bed and pretty much everything ran good including some nasty used engine oil and ATF, except actual vegetable oil, motor got hot quickly and was way down on power.  Smelled like french fries though.  Motor still fine years later although I do tend to mix at 33 or 25 and drain it and finish the year on Avgas or E0.  Have never had to clean the exhaust screen assuming it has one, last time I turned a mixture screw on it was probably during the testing.

YMMV and all that, make sure you at least use some thing that resembles oil.  I'm sure there are differences and some of these motors are hard to replace so use what you are comfortable with.

sav0r

Avgas is leaded and non ethanol. Really the best fuel there is at least for being stable and reliable. My local non ethanol pump has 110 VP, their pump is super old and it can't go over $9.99. So they sell it for $9.99. Makes me want to take a 55 gallon drum up there.

I think most modern oils are good. I still like Motul products, we had great luck with it in our 100cc karting engines. At one point people were popping engines left and right (more so than usual) and we did some analysis. This was when we were building our own engines (extremely competitive, hard to convey how crazy 100cc engines get). It seemed to us that Maxima oils weren't really working for these engines. Maxima was a sponsor of the series and it was premixed in parc ferme, totally spec. Anyways we went back to the shop and ran these tests and sure enough Motul outperformed the Maxima mix especially so on main bearings. The PTO side main bearing was failing a lot for basically everybody. We did an endurance test. Keep in mind for a 100cc race engine you need about 30 minutes of existence. So that is what we tested for. It was an expensive experiment because once the one main goes the rod is done too, and we did this 10 times. Everybody runs ceramic main bearings these days, perhaps the data isn't as valuable to standard builds (also 22,000 rpm). Maxima oils may be great on steel but less so on ceramic. Eventually we took the data to the organizers and after review it was decided we make a switch to Motul synthetic. The competitors agreed on it. Failures went down by nearly 30%.

It is kind of a specific case study, but it has been burned into my brain and I stick with Motul ever since then.



www.chrislivengood.net - for my projects and musings.

irk_miller

I use Lucas semi-synthetic because that's what my local shop sells.  Seems to do alright.

sav0r

#27
My opinion is that most oil is more than adequate for the vast majority of machines. Even a high output RD isn't particularly stressed when it comes to oil.

Our karting engines were very extreme, they were expected to work at 5k RPM all the way to over-rev status at 21k regularly (no gearbox and direct drive), and 22k was used generally in a draft. 19.5k was comfortable, 18.7k all day long. We rebuilt top ends after 30 minutes of run time and bottom ends at 2 hours of run time. They simply would not last without those rebuild intervals, and fairly often they didn't last even with those intervals. A rebuild was a few hundred bucks and people would bring 3 practice motors, then check in 3 good motors to parc ferme. Usually 1 qualifying motor good for 20 minutes of qualifying, ten minutes for each session, each session being 30 minutes. You time track conditions and tires and used those 10 minutes wisely. The 2 other motors would last race distance or so. So you get a new motor each race, but split the qualifying motor into the two qualifying sessions. If it blows in the second session, oh well, if it blew in the first you were then going to have to qualify on a race motor and hope for the best. $1000 a weekend on motors if you were building them, quite a bit more if you were renting motors from big builders. $600 a motor per weekend for a top tier engine rental, but it was good factory built stuff. We were able to get 6 factory built engines because we were successful in North America. All we had to do was get them built and source good carbs. We got a factory hookup on carbs from Hubchen (they sent us like 20 carbs with setup advice, all of them homologated but different), between that and the engines we were set. This is why we started to build engines in house, all we had to do was press cranks and hone cylinders. From there we managed to do some fun tricks in various places and we were pretty much some of the best for a while.

Super long story short, Motul. It was just enough better to survive in a fairly extreme environment, but probably not a meaningful difference otherwise. I like it in my RD because I haven't fouled a plug in years, but I suppose my carb tuning isn't far off either so that doesn't mean much.
www.chrislivengood.net - for my projects and musings.

racerclam

Red Line ! Thats all I have to say


gardenhosebusabottle

#29
Quote from: racerclam on August 10, 2022, 07:02:36 PMRed Line ! Thats all I have to say



I agree!  I used this the 1st year RB designs did his magic and it was awesome.

Worried?, try 25:1 and rejet.  Doesn't hurt to run high octane non=ethanol. if you can afford it in tandem.  The only pump i know VP fuels is in Salem, so that's a bit far, failing that 92 non ehtanol in the RD400, stock pipe keeps things in check.

1.  Redline  $$$$$race full synthetic @ 25:1!.  If you want to cruise +85 on the freeway, best seat of the pants.  smells racy too...added plus w/ that beautiful red color....gokart rated for high rpm if i remember correctly and those are AIR cooled for the most part...love this , but expensive.
2.  Amsoil Dominator
3.  Amsoil Interceptor.  I can honestly...trust me....haha.  say that this runs much cleaner than yamalube...easier
    cleanup on piston tops and exhaust ports.

Note RB Designs recommended yamalube 2R years ago.  Haven't really tried it.