Li-Ion / Li-Fe Batteries

[Diablo007]

OK, so I'm trying to figure out a good Li-Ion / Li-Fe battery for my RD350's and RZ350's.  I started the research years ago but my projects were put on the back burner.  With the whole COVID-19 pandemic I've had more time to work on the projects, hence all my recent posts.  The following is the information I've compiled:

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YUASA:
Product Specifications for 12N5-5A-3B Dry Charge Battery:
SPECIFICATIONS:
Yuasa Part #:   12N5.5A-3B
Voltage:   12 Volt
Capacity:   5.5 Ah
Type:   Dry Charge
Length:   4.06"
Width:   3.56"
Height:   4.5"
Cold Cranking Amps:   44 CCA

SHORAI (POSSIBLE REPLACEMENT):
SPECIFICATIONS:
Shorai Part #:   LFX09A2-BS12
Voltage:   12 Volt
Capacity:   9.0 Ah
Type:   LiFe
Length:   4.45"
Width:   2.28"
Height:   3.50"
Cold Cranking Amps:   135 CCA

SHORAI (RECOMMEDED BY SHORAI):
SPECIFICATIONS:
Shorai Part #:   LFX14L2-BS12
Voltage:   12 Volt
Capacity:   14.0 Ah
Type:   LiFe
Length:   4.45"
Width:   2.28"
Height:   3.50"
Cold Cranking Amps:   210 CCA

BATTERY TENDER (POSSIBLE REPLACEMENT):
SPECIFICATIONS:
Battery Tender Part #:   BTL09A150CW  *****corrected brand and part number*****
Voltage:   12 Volt
Capacity:   2.5 Ah (I think this is the lithium rating, not the lead-acid rating)
Type:   LiFePO4
Length:   4.50"
Width:   2.80"
Height:   3.40"
Cold Cranking Amps:   150 CCA
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All of these have more than 44 CCA.  Shorai recommends one with 210 instead of the one with 135.  Does anyone know the reason?  I was going to use the one with 135, but I also have the one with 210.  Both aren't being used right now.  I included the Battery Tender one as they now have built in monitoring, which seems benificial.

[pdxjim]

I put Lithium batteries in all my bikes a few years ago, but am back to AGM on most of them.

Lithium not worth th hassle or expense in my opinion

[Diablo007]

@pdxjim

I already have the Shorai batteries.  They are LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) not LiPo (lithium polymer).  As I understand the LiFePO4 batteries are easier to maintain.

What were the reasons you found the LiPo to be a hassle?

[SoCal250]

I have a Shorai LFX07L2-BS12 in my RD400 and I'm not convinced they're worth it. I also have the special Shorai charger for it. Mine suddenly started exhibiting short output duration and storage life and seems like it's giving up on me. A lot of expense for not much return IMHO.
The only positives: it's small and very light.

I think the $15 SLA alarm batteries are a much better value. They hold a charge for a long time and last 7-9 years. Plus you can buy 6 of them for each Shorai. On Amazon check out: Mighty Max ML5-12 SLA 12V 5AH

[pdxjim]

I bought a few Antigravity brand batteries for over $100 each.

Both of them konked out after less than a year and wouldn't hold a charge.

Yes I was using a Li specific charger.

I get 5+ years out of a $30 AGM as long as I keep it on the Tender.  That seems like way better value to me.

[m in sc]

8 years out of a 26 dollar alarm battery. no weird chargers, nothing to monitor. Never an issue. 

[teazer]

I suspect that the battery manufacturers don't realize that teh RZ not only does not have an electric starter but it also has a self energizing ignition, so you can get away with a much smaller Lithium battery.

If the (RD air cooled) has  DYNA ignition or spends a lot of time crawling in traffic, you may want to go up a size.

In both cases you will need a Lithium compatible regulator.  Old designs for wet cells are not accurate enough and allow over and undercharging, both of which will kill a lithium based battery.

For 12v you need a motorcycle specific battery which IIRC uses A123 cells with different chemistry that say a 4 cell RC battery which runs closer to 14 or 15 volts.

[rodneya]

8 years out of a 26 dollar alarm battery. no weird chargers, nothing to monitor. Never an issue.

Agreed, and they are small and dont leak so they can be mounted on their side

[Diablo007]

@SoCal250

I use an inexpensive RC battery charger (C3 by Hobby King, I use it for my RC stuff) compatible with LiFe batteries and a balancing lead to charge/maintain my batteries.  I had 2 that weren't holding a charge for more than a month, but after charging them with the RC charger about twice a month they will now hold a charge.  I'm at 4 months and they haven't needed a charge as they are both still over 14.5V.  I didn't think the Shorai was worth the money so I found an alternative that I happened  to already have.

The Shorai LiFe in our DT125A is still going strong and it's going on 2 years, and it's an electric start enduro.  The Battery Tender lithium battery in the Grom is probably 5 years and going strong also, that's the motorcycle that sits the most.

I guess I'll try the 9.0Ah battery first in the RD350 and see how it holds up.  The charging system is putting out voltage within the range suggested by Shorai.  Worst that will happen is I end up with an alarm battery, best is that it holds up as well or better than the Battery Tender battery in the Grom.

[Dvsrd]

@SoCal250

I use an inexpensive RC battery charger (C3 by Hobby King, I use it for my RC stuff) compatible with LiFe batteries and a balancing lead to charge/maintain my batteries.  I had 2 that weren't holding a charge for more than a month, but after charging them with the RC charger about twice a month they will now hold a charge.  I'm at 4 months and they haven't needed a charge as they are both still over 14.5V.  I didn't think the Shorai was worth the money so I found an alternative that I happened  to already have.

The Shorai LiFe in our DT125A is still going strong and it's going on 2 years, and it's an electric start enduro.  The Battery Tender lithium battery in the Grom is probably 5 years and going strong also, that's the motorcycle that sits the most.

I guess I'll try the 9.0Ah battery first in the RD350 and see how it holds up.  The charging system is putting out voltage within the range suggested by Shorai.  Worst that will happen is I end up with an alarm battery, best is that it holds up as well or better than the Battery Tender battery in the Grom.

Why a 9.0 Ah battery? Or was that a typo, and supposed to be 0.9 Ah?
On my 74 RD 350 with Powerdynamo, I use the smallest Super B LiPOFe battery, at 2.6 Ah.
I also have a 5.2 Ah Super B, that I have used in my XS 650 and 680 kitted Ducati 600. Both these batteries are now close to 10 years old, and still hold a charge for months. For occasional maintenance charging, I use a dedicated charger from Super B.
I have never har any lead acid battery lasting that long.in either motorcycle, car, lawn mower or boat.....

[Diablo007]

@Dvsrd

Not a typo.  I have the Shorai batteries listed in the first post already.  I don't see a need to purchase a battery if either will work.

[quocle603]

Not sure what you're doing but Li-Fe and Li batteries are overkill TBH. They are small and lightweight but I've been using a 5ah alarm battery for years in bike. Its cheap and simple solution. No issues at all.

[m in sc]

question:

has anyone here had a li/ion batteyr get low and get cooked by a charging system on a bike? ive seen one smoke up. not pretty.

[Diablo007]

@m in sc

Thanks, you pretty much summed up what I was trying to ask.

I already have the batteries and they aren't doing any good sitting on a shelf.  As long as the motorcycle's charging system can maintain them and not be damaged, and as long as the batteries aren't going to go up in flames, I might as well use one.

Secondary question: Would a larger capacity battery help with the dimming lights at idle on these old motorcycles?  I've seen a capacitor bank setup in parallel with the battery to help with this, curious about the battery capacity. 

[Diablo007]

Also, the question is regarding the stock regulator and rectifier.  There are aftermarket ones, but if the stock ones work I don't see a need to change them yet.  Maybe later...

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/