YPVS Loses Position(?)

[teazer]

it ran perfect, nothing was changed.tgis was also on a fairly fresh motor. it came on suddenly. therein lies the rub.

Just so I understand it, the bike ran fine after the motor was rebuilt and then suddenly had this mid range issue? Or was it broken in and the problem wasn't identified until it was run harder?

[teazer]

it ran perfect, nothing was changed.tgis was also on a fairly fresh motor. it came on suddenly. therein lies the rub.

Just so I understand it, the bike ran fine after the motor was rebuilt and then suddenly had this mid range issue? Or was it broken in and the problem wasn't identified until it was run harder?

[m in sc]

had mileage on the rebuild then came out of nowhere is what Steve told me..

[teazer]

I can imagine how frustrating this has been for you both.  It's a really odd to have a problem suddenly appear out of nowhere and for it to only impact above 4000 and idle. If it were fuel starvation it should get worse as revs rise.  If it's a broken or shorting lead somewhere it would normally get worse as revs and vibration increase.

We tend to gradually open the throttle so it's hard to isolate rising revs from rising throttle effects. Is there any difference at those problematic revs for example with small throttle openings compared to banging it wide open? with the zeel, it might be an idea to try it with PV closed via software compared to wide open compared to partial throttle. 

Just thinking out loud here but is it possible to see Zeeltronic conditions as it runs say on a dyno or does someone have a datalogger that they would lend to the cause to track mixture, revs, and Throttle position to see if that data sheds light on where to look?

Fuel should not be an issue because if it's bad it usually causes problems all through the rev range.

Another thought: might be an idea to go back to stock carb settings and ignition and PV timing and then swap out the pipes for a different set.  If no change then the pipes are not related though they may exacerbate the issues.

[m in sc]

the zeel was put on to combat this problem. its not the zeel.

the carb settings were proven for years prior, its a toomey setup on the stock carbs.

the stator was rewound by my suggestion due to a very similar issue we saw on another RZ. thats not it.

the coil was swapped to combat this. same.

I used the batphone and called quenzler directly, he was stumped as well. 

so, by process of elimination, if it were MY BIKE, id rewire the ignition or replace the harness. to be honest, id actually bypass all of it, test it directly wired, then slowly add systems back.

I'll be honest, ive never really felt anything quite like the issue this has. steve explained it to me, i test rode it and was completely baffled, and ive seen some (And caused) strange shit. this one has me stumped aside from what needs to be tested next in the wiring. I'm not being stubborn, but theres been a lot of process of elimination.

[2steve]

The latest wiring bypasses, coil ground and coil orange wire have been run direct. Brown positive from fuse box inspected and ohm'd. Looks fine. Checked other browns coming out of the fuse box. They are solidly soldered together as the schematic dictates. As of today, it still runs the same.

I only see that I could trace the brown wire that goes to the regulator/rectifier and the ignition switch plug to either bypass or look for a smoking gun (iggy switch being new now).

Should I replace the reg/rectifier so as to continue this journey of great success?

Otherwise, yes, buy a harness and start working it in. The bike will do its retarded stumbling at the lower rpm, then I open the throttle wide open out of spite and it will start to catch, pop and falter back into its abysmal malaise. Really did run well previously. Then I parked it one day and rode it later to find this issue.

The entire ignition system is self-isolated because of replaced parts except for that brown wire pathway to the regulator - to the best of my knowledge. Rick's stator said my original tested good and I probably have a good removed YPVS box and 52Y CDI box.

Hoping the regulator/rectifier would be the prob. That would affect voltage to the Zeel, among other things.
Since I was in the headlight bucket and feeding a new ignition switch plug in, I put my spare Auxito LED bulb in the headlight. The YPVS cycling is faster now without the halogen bulb sucking down the voltage when you turn on the key. Still no improvement, though.

Teazer, I feel bad that you wasted so much time that you will never get back by reading the whole thread.
It really ran well before this and when even when it hits the pipes now, it's just fantastic.

[m in sc]

the rr would have had zero effect on the stock cdi box which had this issue too, so, thats not it either. 

[teazer]

I realize that the two of you have been thorough  and approached this systematically. I'm just trying to look at it with a fresh pair of eyes to see if there's something I might have tried.

Regulator rectifier is unlikely to be the problem, but you could disconnect the whole charging system and run it around the block as a total loss. That would at least eliminate one more variable.

If it is indeed electrical is it possible that there is RF noise from some source that is creating a problem at certain revs/frequencies?  We have a bike on the dyno that hit 6500 and it felt like it was hitting the rev limiter and with that heavy dyno drum driving things it was pretty violent and the deto counter was flashing like a cop car.  The only thing that could have caused it was RF noise from the dyno or the charging system.

The fix was a length of stainless steel braided tube from the hardware store to shield the pickup. That was an Ignitech system with new pickup not an OEM pickup like the RZ, but you could try wrapping the pickup leads in foil just to test it.

With the Zeel software, can you monitor what it's doing?  If so, you might be able to run the bike on the center stand and run it in gear up to say 4k and see if anything stutters or changes in ways that are unexpected. But the symptoms were there with stock ECU, so that's unlikely but you are looking for something unexpected.
 

[m in sc]

its not it, i know that fault(had it with a very early mzb and zeel years ago) and it has a different feel. (more of a stutter) this just goes flat. it very much -feels- like a fuel situation, but it does it at varying throttle positions,  thats the 1st thing I tried when I rode it.

[teazer]

Correct.  That is more of a stutter as if someone was flicking the on-off switch very quickly.  I sense your frustration there.

Is there a dyno close by?  Run it with sniffers in the pipes and watch to see if anything goes out of whack as it runs. Or borrow a data logger and fit an O2 bung and log revs against A:F and look for anomalies. It's hard to read that data on a 2 stroke but might reveal something.

As the anomaly doesn't appear to relate to throttle position, it is more likely to be electrical.

[2steve]

I'm turning over thoughts of trying resistor plugs along with the resistor caps already in place.
Also, the foil thing on pickup wires, though the prob was was previous to the Zeel and stator replacements. Rick's Stator put a new glossy black sheath over most of those pick up wires.

None of that agrees with, "It was running fine when parked, and the next run was a disaster."

However, going through to eliminate sometimes forces a discovery.

[2steve]

The black cube in the photo modulates flatulence output.

Having snooped a little in internet photos, it looks like it's the sidestand control unit. That runs down into a shared plug to the stator and neutral switch.
It is, after all, hard to flatulate whilst sitting on a motorcycle seat.

[2steve]

The green pickup wire goes direct (and already did) to the Zeel unit without disappearing into the harness somewhere. I was hoping I'd find something there.

Wondering if there's such a thing as RF getting introduced into the ignition system by way of harness proximity to the new spark plug wires, thick rubber covering and all.

Next move would be a chat with John at Economy for a complete harness to patch in or stainless braided sheath.

[m in sc]

not rf

[2steve]

The only engine ground I can see is the black wire off the stator.
Should there be another or an additional one to put in place for the RZ?