DIY: Homemade timing tool

[rodneya]

Unfortunately the Ebay listing says "(WILL NOT CLEAR COOLING FINS OF AIR-COOLED HEADS)"  It would be cool if you could purchase the machined base with a longer housing by itself to use with a small face dial gauge.
[/quote]

You can get just that from Motion Pro. Just search adapter kit for aircooled engine

[SoCal250]

Unfortunately the Ebay listing says "(WILL NOT CLEAR COOLING FINS OF AIR-COOLED HEADS)"  It would be cool if you could purchase the machined base with a longer housing by itself to use with a small face dial gauge.

You can get just that from Motion Pro. Just search adapter kit for aircooled engine

Good find. It's only ~$13 and it has a set screw to capture the indicator.
https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0249

One problem though:  Adapter kit does not allow two stroke timing kit to be installed on Yamaha RD two stroke twins when the engine is in the frame. Adapter kit with two stroke timing kit does work with engine out of frame.

[Greaser Greg]

I'm using some one ish inch mandrel pulled steel axle stock, cut to length to just clear the fins. That, with some electrical tape to snug it up in a cleaned out spark plug threaded body. More tape on the indicator, just one or two raps, and it's pretty tight.  I've seen an indicator with a one inch diameter face that looked ideal for in frame clearance.  Total cost was $20 for the dial gauge at my local tool store. 
Just the weight of the gauge was enough to hold it against the tube but I added the tape just because. A tap and screw is more proper, but I ain't that way, so far.

[sav0r]

The one I linked to earlier will fit a 2" diameter indicator on an RD350, but it's tight.

[rodneya]

Unfortunately the Ebay listing says "(WILL NOT CLEAR COOLING FINS OF AIR-COOLED HEADS)"  It would be cool if you could purchase the machined base with a longer housing by itself to use with a small face dial gauge.

You can get just that from Motion Pro. Just search adapter kit for aircooled engine

Good find. It's only ~$13 and it has a set screw to capture the indicator.
https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0249

One problem though:  Adapter kit does not allow two stroke timing kit to be installed on Yamaha RD two stroke twins when the engine is in the frame. Adapter kit with two stroke timing kit does work with engine out of frame.

I just cut a piece off the top to make it a bit shorter and made a new set screw hole, so that I could use it with the motor in the frame

[Redbird]

Not Homemade, but I've used this little gem with great results. You don't even have to remove the tank.

Can't seem to locate the eBay listing where I purchased it, but it's identical to the "Buzzetti Micrometer Timing Tool".
Mine isn't branded, and I only paid like $20-25 for it. So I'm sure if you hunt around you can find one cheaper.

[RDryan]

Not Homemade, but I've used this little gem with great results. You don't even have to remove the tank.

Can't seem to locate the eBay listing where I purchased it, but it's identical to the "Buzzetti Micrometer Timing Tool".
Mine isn't branded, and I only paid like $20-25 for it. So I'm sure if you hunt around you can find one cheaper.

How does that work? I'm guessing you just set it at where ever you want to be BTDC and it acts as a kinda stop? Crank her over till the piston meets tip and Bob's yer uncle.

[RDryan]

Unfortunately the Ebay listing says "(WILL NOT CLEAR COOLING FINS OF AIR-COOLED HEADS)"  It would be cool if you could purchase the machined base with a longer housing by itself to use with a small face dial gauge.

You can get just that from Motion Pro. Just search adapter kit for aircooled engine
[/quote]


FWIW and I hate to say this because it seems like I am "that guy"...well I have bad luck with at least three RD related products I purchased online and this is one of em. So mine must've had some bad threads or something because I can only get in like two or three turns and it's just not going to thread in nicely like the sparkplugs will. It works but not correctly. This was before I new about this forum much less the existence of this thread unfortunately. I didn't want to deal with the hassle of sending it back nor the extra shipping costs so I just make due with its shortcomings and don't force it. Now that I have a Vape Ignition it sorta kinda did it's job and unless I rebuild the engine any time soon I really don't need it and even then the rotor has a machined keyway and timing has been verified by me so I'll probably never need it. At the time it frustrated me enough to wanna get a die to clean up, recut the threads. Like I say don't know if I was just a victim of a lazy production run of these but it would probably work wonderful if it would actually thread all the way in.

[Redbird]

How does that work? I'm guessing you just set it at where ever you want to be BTDC and it acts as a kinda stop? Crank her over till the piston meets tip and Bob's yer uncle.

Yup. Thread it into the sparkplug hole and "zero" the tool by lining up the marks. Loosen the set screw and locate TDC by watching the rise/fall of the center post. Lock center post with set screw and rotate crank backwards a bit (for clearance). Then turn the dial on the tool to the desired advance (each mark on the tool equals 1mm BTDC). Once desired advance it set, rotate the crank forward until it contacts the tool/stop. Then set your points/ignition.

[quocle603]

Pretty neat.

[quocle603]

Not Homemade, but I've used this little gem with great results. You don't even have to remove the tank.

Can't seem to locate the eBay listing where I purchased it, but it's identical to the "Buzzetti Micrometer Timing Tool".
Mine isn't branded, and I only paid like $20-25 for it. So I'm sure if you hunt around you can find one cheaper.

https://www.treatland.tv/replay-ignition-micrometer-p/replay-ignition-micrometer.htm

[Redbird]

DING! We have a Winner!

Thanks ;D
I need to save that now so I don't forget it later

[Quicklimegirl]

Question for you all with electronic ignitions. First off, I haven't done much wrenching in many years, so please bear with me.
Do all electronic ignitions available today (I see several who say they have "Vape" ignitions) use optical triggers?  For those with optical triggers, it's my understanding you use the devices above, with a dial indicator, to set timing.  It's also my understanding you cannot use an old-fashioned "timing light" to try and time an optical-triggered electronic ignition, in this case, an old XR700 Crane ignition. 

I farmed out the rebuild of my RD400 to someone who insisted on doing the entire rebuild themselves w/o any input from a certain person banned on the old board.  When discussing the ignition, he related to the builder how it had previously been timed using a dial indicator. When the rebuild was done (several years ago) it ran perfectly and never went out of time for over 15,000 miles. I took the bike on several 1-1/2 day, 550 mile trips without incident. That was before an recent ill-advised venture into a rebuild in which clearances for Wossner pistons, but from another bike were used, with disasterous results. 

At that point, partly because of a very significant change in work hours, far more than before, I decided not to ask him to rebuild and farmed it out. It had nothing to do with the previous rebuild or the troubles he had with the Daytona which were eventually solved, and that bike was ridden for another 70,000 miles (!) before sold. It was merely a question of not having the time to do so anymore, as he no longer works from home.

I got the bike back, and after doing a once over, safety-wiring the injector lines on, & a couple minor things, then doing a couple of static heat cycles to ensure the head torque remained okay, took the bike out for it's first ride.  About 13 miles from home, the bike seized.  The builder is speculating that the ignition -- presumably the module -- failed.  But the bike had been running fine and idled perfectly.  If the timing wasn't set right, being retarded for instance, wouldn't the bike not have been idling perfect? He says that would cause a lean condition, but that makes it sound like rather than the ignition failing, that it wasn't timed properly?  I don't know exactly how the timing was set but he was having issues trying to use a timing light, at least initially. That's when the process of using the dial indicator was told to him.  I don't think he had any faith in listening to him about how it had been set on the successful top & bottom end rebuild that had been done years before.  At this point I haven't talked directly to him yet, just texted, but it appears from what little correspondence we have, that he possibly blames the seizure on ignition failure.  Now, we have instructions on how to test the module and other components of the ignition we can provide to him. I really would like to know what the cause of the seizure is and basically put it on him to figure it out and get a bike back that will run for several thousand miles, not 13.  I also acknowledged it will be some time because of a huge amount of family issues he has to deal with before he can have time to pursue reason(s) behind what happened, and told him I understand that has priority for him right now.

So, the point of all my long-windedness to know what the proper and best way there is to set ignition timing on an optically- triggered XR700 ignition.  1976 RD400C.  The bike has stock porting, stock pipes, 145 mains, 27.5 pilots.

[m in sc]

easy. use the dial gauge to set piston, make the timing mark (on a 400 i would go 1.9-2mm btdc) then time using a timing light. with optic systems like the crane/allison, or newtronics, you need to shield the pickup from light when using a light.

vape (mzb) and other cdi's use a proximity/magnetic trigger.

sure fire way (pun intended) to get timing right is to use a light after verifying the marks with the dial gauge.

more than likely, the timing was too far advanced.

[SUPERTUNE]

Hey girl...a blast from the past!
That was hard to read through.
In a quick answer... Mark replied in brief. 

RD's can seize many ways and much easier to do now than ever before as the gas we buy today compared to what we did 10-15 years ago!
In order for me to understand all the hoopla, I need facts, Was the engine bored with new pistons?
What brand and what clearances were used? How big is the bore now? As you go to the much larger bores I add clearance to the now thicker and heavier pistons and never stock clearances in the OEM manual unless your going to run fuel you DON'T buy at any unleaded street pump.
Oversized pistons can drive up the stock compression really high after 1mm over.

Carb jetting we used just several years ago now seem a bit too lean if run too hard.

Vape (MZB powerdynomo) and the HPI are working well. Dyna are fine too. No ones using optical ignitions anymore.
Like Mark said, if you use a timing light on them you have to make a rolled cardboard sleeve to shield any light from getting to the pickups.
Always use dial indicator to make reference marks for proper timing then verify with a timing light and make needed adjustments.

Here's pic's and a video of me verifying timing with a light on a Vape (MZB)
The reference marks for my pointer are 2.0mm and 1.8mm BTDC, so middle is 1.9mm
I also verified my charging voltage, but the Vape doesn't care about it to run as they are 2 separate systems, but I need to, to have all my lights and electrical relays work right.

Chuck
P.S. It's great to see you back!   









Video here.

https://imageevent.com/supertune/paulsrd400?p=249&n=1&m=-1&c=3&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=3