My left CMC joint (Very base of thumb) has some rather painful arthritis and I have to wear a brace on it to reduce pain. I can sit at a light or whatever holding the clutch in with little problem, but shifting up through the gears sometimes pinches my hand between the brace and the hand grip and the range of motion required passes through a painful spot. Is it Ok to speed shift (clutchless shift timed with slight backing off gas momentarily) up through the gears from 2nd on up to 6th (RD400c)? I intend to continue clutching on down-shifts, but with the narrow power band (even that of the 400) I find that I am shifting a lot more than on my old GoldWings. I have tried it a few times and it seems to be effortless and smooth. It sure makes the hand feel better, too.
OK, I don't mean to be ugly, but this is going to come out that way; why in heaven's name would you sit at a traffic light with your transmission in gear waiting for the light to change? Sounds like a HD rider to me! You shouldn't be doing that with your RD and if you have trouble finding neutral at a dead stop you should do so as you coast up to the light shifting down from second gear. Most racers learned that they can't find neutral on the start line and start trying to find it as they coast to their grid position. The problem is exacerbated by the the rear sets they use but removing the black, rubber cushion rings in the clutch basket also worsens the clutch plate separation problem.
A lot of racers I know do not use the clutch on the up-shift. One very, very successful guy is like that. I also replace gears for him every year. Of course, you aren't as hard on them as he is, but these old bikes are not like the new ones; use the clutch.
Lyn Garland
Quote from: Yamaha 179 on May 15, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
OK, I don't mean to be ugly, but this is going to come out that way; why in heaven's name would you sit at a traffic light with your transmission in gear waiting for the light to change? Sounds like a HD rider to me! You shouldn't be doing that with your RD and if you have trouble finding neutral at a dead stop you should do so as you coast up to the light shifting down from second gear. Most racers learned that they can't find neutral on the start line and start trying to find it as they coast to their grid position. The problem is exacerbated by the the rear sets they use but removing the black, rubber cushion rings in the clutch basket also worsens the clutch plate separation problem.
A lot of racers I know do not use the clutch on the up-shift. One very, very successful guy is like that. I also replace gears for him every year. Of course, you aren't as hard on them as he is, but these old bikes are not like the new ones; use the clutch.
Lyn Garland
Thanks, Lyn. I guess that this is a bad habit that I got into riding my GL1800 which has a hydraulic clutch and is pretty easy to hold. Plus, going to neutral at a light is a good way to get rear-ended around here! We always have to be ready to jump out of the way (served me well once when I heard squealing tires and lurched up beside the pickup that had been in front of me as a daydreamer skidded up to within two feet of the truck's bumper.)
Quote from: pidjones on May 15, 2021, 02:26:04 PM...Plus, going to neutral at a light is a good way to get rear-ended around here! We always have to be ready to jump out of the way (served me well once when I heard squealing tires and lurched up beside the pickup that had been in front of me as a daydreamer skidded up to within two feet of the truck's bumper.)
YEP!!!!
Watch that mirror for the blind drivers behind you.
I have clutchless shifted up and down on all my bikes. Never found a issue after getting used to the rpm needed to do so. It's as Lynn said unnecessary to hold in gear at lights.. of even on the grids..as soon as the lights come down shift down and go.
And finding neutral is easier while the primary is in movement.
There are people who have fabbed up hydraulic clutch conversions. I think Mark has done it iirc.
Vintage bikes I use the clutch, modern bikes no clutch up and down the box.
Yea, I never tick up into Neutral at a light. I don't trust the smartphone users all around me to see me, especially when I'm stopped.
you can speed shit with a blip of the throttle, no issues.
also, set your lever where you fingers naturally rest, not UP too far like 80% of the bikes i see, causes unnecessary strain and pain.
and yes, keep it in N at lights.
For upshifts, back off the throttle small amount to unload the gears and snick it up to the next one. Downshifts take more finesse and not recommended for situations where there's traffic. Just jam on the brakes, pull in the clutch and drop down as many gears as you need to. Brakes are made for braking, clutches and two stroke motors, not so much.
For the drag strip us a CO2 bottle, solenoid and ram and it will up shift at WOT for as many shifts as there's gas in the bottle. We use the horn button to shift BUT if you need to use the horn, you will upshift instead. There's not enough time to flip the horn/shift switch and then hit the horn.
Again for upshifts you could use what's known as a window switch that activates the air shifter at certain RPM but to short shift you have to hit the button or back out of the throttle.
If/when your thumb gets worse take a look at Pingel electric shifter that can shift up and down and fit a button in the space that a starter button would be on a 4 stroke.
I have a friend with Pingel on his GL1800 trike (he has no legs). Doubt I'll ever need that. Just need to reduce the wear on that joint some. The Spyder thumb-shifts but requires very little force (it's just a switch). I'm thinking about surgery, but that would have to happen at a minimum riding period like late November.
Forgive me for asking... But what's the reason for neutral at lights on these old bikes? Clutch wear?
I think it's because people have issues finding neutral.
If I can see a whole lot of nothing behind me, I'll sit in neutral. Otherwise, I prefer to be able to get out of harm's way immediately. The down side of this is that poor little ball down in the clutch actuation, spinning away with minimal lubrication and maximum pressure. RZs are known to weld said ball to the shaft that pushes it. I see it as a trade off.
I've been doing it for years and never had an issue on any motorcycle I've ever ridden. The only time I go into neutral when sitting is if I'm in traffic that is literally moving just a few feet at a time, then its easier to just push it. Or, if I need my left hand for something other than holding in the clutch.
have to go into N on my t500 or the oil pump and tach dont work. yes, im serious.
I have a quickshifter on my XSR 900. It is the Yamaha factory model and upshift only. It is basically a switch that mounts on the shift linkage rod that momentarily interrupts the ignition signal when you operate the shifter. There are quite a few aftermarket versions out there. I see no reason why one couldn't be fitted to a vintage bike unless it is necessary to cut fuel too. Some of them have their own control modules but the factory version plugs directly into the harness and are controlled by the ECU.
The autoblipper up/downshift versions might not work. Those may depend on fly-by-wire electronic throttles. It is probably easier to install on an electronic ignition than with points. At certain speed/rpm it feels as seamless as an automatic transmission. People more knowledgeable than I may know reasons these won't work on an RD. RPM matching works well on my 350 and I have no problems shifting without the clutch.
IR8D8R
Have you given any thought on changing your bars to something that puts less pressure on your thumb and more to the heel of your hand? Might not look the best on a RD, but maybe "cruiser" style bars might help. Of course that won't be too practical if you're bike is a cafe bike.
Quote from: jradnich on May 19, 2021, 08:28:30 PM
Have you given any thought on changing your bars to something that puts less pressure on your thumb and more to the heel of your hand? Might not look the best on a RD, but maybe "cruiser" style bars might help. Of course that won't be too practical if you're bike is a cafe bike.
Pressure on the joint isn't the issue. It is passing through angles that are sensitive. One of the worst is pressing thumb and forefinger together (luckily not needed when clutching). Cleaning my contacts had to be switched to my right hand. That little bit of pressure is aweful. Clutching pinches my hand bad between the brace and handgrip, as well as moves the joint through a painful angle. I'm investigating surgery because it is regressing and NSAIDs aren't helping much anymore. Happily, riding the Spyder causes no issues with it, even though thumb-shifted.
Oh, and three guitars have been unplayed for a decade.
Quote from: m in sc on May 19, 2021, 01:35:16 PM
have to go into N on my t500 or the oil pump and tach dont work. yes, im serious.
Leave it Suzuki to throw everyone through a loop. Pretty crazy when you think about it! Good to know though... Do the GT750's require the same? Reason I'm asking is.... well that'll be my next bike when and if I ever can get one.
Quote from: pdxjim on May 15, 2021, 07:46:24 PM
Vintage bikes I use the clutch, modern bikes no clutch up and down the box.
:agree:
Quote from: Old Brit on May 20, 2021, 01:13:56 AM
Quote from: pdxjim on May 15, 2021, 07:46:24 PM
Vintage bikes I use the clutch, modern bikes no clutch up and down the box.
:agree:
Not on a GT750. Tacho and water pump are from a gear on the crank to a train of gears and then a cross shaft to the water pump. No clutch involved. As long as the motor turns, so do all the rotating bits.
You looking for a GT750 cafe racer/restomod project? I happen to have one with TL1000 suspension and wheels and a GusKhun tank and seat. Choice of Bassani or J&R Power pipes. I just started on it, so lots of room for personal touches :whistle:
Resurrecting my old thread to add a recent development. Last Tuesday I was at a light in the left lane (turning left at the next light) on my GL1000 (GoldWing). The light had been red and traffic stopped for a bit. The station wagon behind me had stopped. Suddenly the bike lurched, and I thought the clutch had slipped in my hand and I had stalled it. But no, the station wagon had bumped me! Not very hard, but enough to crumple my license tag up under the fender.
I always leave a half to a full car-length in front - used that once to pull around a truck on my GL1000 as I heard squealing tires and a car slid to within a couple feet of the truck.
We got each other's info and went on our way. Police are too busy these days to respond, and the only cost (other than severely rattled nerves) to me will be a new tag - which she will pay for. Now, if I had been out of gear it would probably have put the bike on the pavement. A serious thing for my cherished Hunley. Maybe a one-in-a-hundred thing that I wasn't put down by it (since I was standing in my normal stoplight stance of one foot on the ground, the other on the rear brake). So, I'll continue sitting in-gear (and in fear) at lights. Holding the clutch doesn't hurt. It is the motion I have to go through from clutch released to held and back that causes the pain.
Perhaps an auto clutch like the Rekluse is an option. I doubt that there is a unit ready-made for what you're riding, but maybe something could be adapted?
Quote from: 85RZwade on August 19, 2021, 08:53:00 AM
Perhaps an auto clutch like the Rekluse is an option. I doubt that there is a unit ready-made for what you're riding, but maybe something could be adapted?
Or just gently speed shift.
Quote from: m in sc on May 19, 2021, 01:35:16 PM
have to go into N on my t500 or the oil pump and tach dont work. yes, im serious.
My YDS3 both require the bike to be in neutral and clutch released when sitting. The oil pump is clutch driven. Sitting in gear with the clutch pulled in..motor can seize from no oil delivery.
I've speed shifted all my bikes after learning where the bikes motor "lives" so to speak. Maybe not the smarter thing though.
I hope all works out for you .
QuoteIt is the motion I have to go through from clutch released to held and back that causes the pain.
have you tried rolling the clutch lever down as much as you can so you aren't stressing your forearm and hand muscles? most of mine are pointed, literally, 30-40 degrees 'down' in rotation.
Quote from: Striker1423 on May 18, 2021, 11:21:55 PM
Forgive me for asking... But what's the reason for neutral at lights on these old bikes? Clutch wear?
Oil pumps driven off the gearbox, sitting in gear with the clutch in means no oil is being pumped