See so many restomods. So few oem restoration bikes on the web.
Is this the result of few good oem parts availability or just lazy builders?
I respect a pure restoration immensely just for the sake of the efforts involved in chasing down or correctly refinishing all OEM parts. I think I would be less likely to ride one that is perfect. Improvements like chambers, better brakes and reliable ignition components make them a lot more enjoyable for me.. Just my :twocents:
:agree: my feelings exactly.
I don't mind restoring a bike, But, with good and tasteful upgrades that don't detract from the original look.
Prime example. Electronic ignitions over points. Tasteful, more useable power, and they don't detract from the look of the bike.
I think you need to consider the condition of the platform before starting the project. My 400 was modified by the PO in such a way that a true "Resto" was impossible. Frame de-tabbed (hacked is a more appropriate term lol), etc.
On the CB350's I had I usually tried to keep the as original as possible. But when I got my RD and realized the simple upgrades and gains you can make are almost a no brainer. Now I was lucky enough to get a bunch of period correct pieces for my bike. So that makes me feel cool knowing it's still kind of period correct.
I dont think I would call a restomod builder lazy. It often takes way more effort to modify stuff to work than it does to find oem stock replacement parts.
Nut and bolt perfect restorations are more likely to be display bikes and never actually ridden, which seems a huge waste to me.
Quote from: rodneya on May 25, 2021, 10:07:36 AM
I dont think I would call a restomod builder lazy. It often takes way more effort to modify stuff to work than it does to find oem stock replacement parts.
Nut and bolt perfect restorations are more likely to be display bikes and never actually ridden, which seems a huge waste to me.
I agree. My bike is close to nut and bolt minus some obvious stuff... Like the nuts and bolts lol. Old parts are still old and take WAY too much time to fix up. Aside from the paint job and frame powder coat, the rest of the parts were cleaned up and or rattle-canned enough to make them fit. Chrome? Hahahaha... no. At least... not now. It's riding season.
If I found a nice survivor I might consider leaving it alone except for minor mods like lower bars, shorter signals, things like that. My oldest son did that to his 250 and it looks nice, but still sounds, and feels, and looks like stock bike with some subtle mods. Never in a 100 years would I do a nut and bolt resto. In my opinion they both take just as much work to do right.
ive restored, correclty, a few. Ive modded many many more.
my thing is: if its a complete restorable bike, dont make it unrestorable down the road. ie detabbing frames, etc. however, its its kind of pile as most of mine start as with basically no chance of a complete bike, have at it.
to me restorations are fussy expensive projects and very paint by number rivet counter exercises that really take no mental acuity or creative endeavors. which, as you might guess, is quite boring. to me at least.
Some pretty good responses.
I'll accept that my "lazy" was out of turn in ways. That said .. I've seen so many "cafe racer" builds that are indeed horrible cobbed pos builds that deserve the call. On the other hand I've definitely seen restomods that are beautiful and well thought out, crafted by skilled hands.
My current R5 will never be a perfect restoration as it was so far gone when acquired. But I hope to bring it as close to original as possible and not break the bank. My 64 YDS3 is my money pit but I am devoted to restore it to "as new" condition.
My question was more of a statement of my wish to see more bikes restored rather than just brought back to good riders.. of which I'm obviously as quilty as anyone else.
Quote from: m in sc on May 25, 2021, 01:18:55 PM
ive restored, correclty, a few. Ive modded many many more.
my thing is: if its a complete restorable bike, dont make it unrestorable down the road. ie detabbing frames, etc. however, its its kind of pile as most of mine start as with basically no chance of a complete bike, have at it.
to me restorations are fussy expensive projects and very paint by number rivet counter exercises that really take no mental acuity or creative endeavors. which, as you might guess, is quite boring. to me at least.
While I can understand your thoughts... I must disagree with this statement.
True restorations of serious endeavor are not for the weak or ignorant. The tremendous amount of research in my quest to bring my YDS3 to correct original condition is breathtaking. As with so many other bikes models built for many years the very first year model are impossibly different than the ones built afterwards and the amount of changes Yamaha made between early and late 1964 are enormous. So many details to document and the effort to locate and restore specific correct parts can only be done in a meticulous and exacting manner. Not a easy task.
I am into this project by many $$ and years and still yet to see the light of day. For me at least..it's a delight to see other similar builds knowing what takes to get there.
as an engineer, i look at it as just boring work. Been there, done it. there's no imagination involved in following spec sheets all day. I understand 'puzzle lover' people enjoying the search but meh. and, restored bikes typically get ridden a LOT less than restomods or hacked up cafe bikes in my experience.
I mean, i get preserving history. I'm just not rally that guy unless its a really interesting and rare bike. I've talked to a LOT of vjmc rivet counters and typically they bore me to tears. and then is usually comes down to costs and resale values, which i have -zero- interest in talking about. But thats just me. I never said they were weak minded or ignorant. but the work is dull as the back of a butterknife. :twocents: :patriot:
You would have loved my EX250 track bike.
Built 100% from boxes of parts.
Homade exhaust, homade fairings and seat and everything else custom made and only engine insides from off the shelf..
A true frankenbike ala Road Warrior style.
:clap:
I'm with Mark. Some bikes totally deserve a proper restoration, but I'm not rich, full of free time and have terrible ADD. I work hard when paid but don't enjoy it as a hobby. I'd rather learn even if my tiny Polish brain needs help more than most.
RC30s, bevel head Ducati's, any air cooled Yamaha 2t racers! Metralla's, Velocette, Manx, V7 Sports. A few are just too right... I can probably keep going. Keep those stock and restored.
I see where this going!
Ok..lets pile on Mr. Straight laced Scott!
Fine ..come and bring it.. I can take all comers.. :wave:
Ya'll ain't gonna take me down suckas!
Ha!
I gravitate towards good original examples and try to keep them stock appearing as much as possible. I do see a lot of resto mod/ cafe P.O.S. that are cobbled together with a 2x6 for a seat and low bars! YUCK, no thank you.................................D
I'm of the opinion that if the bike is to be RIDDEN that when something breaks and there are newer/.ore reliable/better parts available to take their place - use them.
Examples:
Turn signal flasher - used one that will work with LED bulbs.
Headlight - used an H4 replacement w/35w bulb.
Master cylinder - used a 13mm and got better feel.
I love the fact that my recent purchase is what I consider a survivor and would love to ride it around as stock but in no way am I going for a museum bike. The bike will come out looking great as a rider and will be rid-in with the idea of upgrades along the way of Remake DG heads, flat bars, chambers, rear sets, swing arm, rebuilt crank, new lower seals, 1 over bore ( no stage anything on the cylinders) rebuilt stock carbs and probably go with pointless ignition and of course save the stock parts to be replaced on the bike if it was ever sold, in this way I will never sell my after market parts again because I would rather keep them they have become pretty pricey and less manufactured as we all die off. :patriot: :twocents:
my 70 is a survivor with redone seat and a dyna ignition. thats basically all the mods. my t500 is stock. so, i'm not against stock bikes.
however, stuff like this to restore was a HUGE pain int he ass. but was totally worth it. If you think yamaha parts can be expensive for a twin.. price some of this stuff out if you can find it. :eek: yes, i restored it. was on the way to becoming a chopper when i rescued it. absolutely brilliant bike to ride. i did have the stock airbox as well but ran way better w the k&ns
Sorry but I don't think my build is lazy at all. Fully rebuilt the motor and transmission, took the bike all the way down the frame, replaced all the wear items brakes, bearings, hardware etc. Yeah I chopped some unnecessary tabs off here and there. But overall the bike is much nicer, faster, and stronger with all of the upgrades/modifications I did to it. Personally a bone stock rd400 is cool, but it's boring to ride compared to a hopped up one. Just my 2 cents.
IMHO, when form outweighs function you have lost the plot.
example:
local guy with a big budget is doing an rd400. getting it done a local (albeit hack) 'boutique' bike shop. Most of their stuff is pretty but def nothing great. Owner is a richard rawlings wannabe.
that being said, guy w the 400 was telling me at the other bike night hes going to put on a 4ls drum on an rd400 'better than the original (at a cost i cant even imagine.. and didnt ask). I just looked at him and was like 'what?' He 'was told' its better than the 'original rd400 drums'
I explained to him they never had a drum on the front. ever. he started to disagree with me and i looked him straight int he eye and said 'i'll bet you 1000 bucks in cash, right now, no rd400 ever came from the factory with a drum on the front stock'.
I would be willing to bet the owner got one reasonably and saw a payday opportunity. I LOATHE that shop with a passion.
I also told the guy w the 400 that when he took that bike to a show, anyone who was familiar with rds would just ask him wtf was wrong with him.
but, his choice.
I also know the 'lead mechanic' (15 dollar an hour kid. great guy but..) just quit.
so, while i agree with the 'hacked up board seat bike' comment, when you pay somebody thousands of dollars for the same thing by a 'pro' shop.. its even worse no matter how shiny it is. ie: how about 12K in a cb550 cafe? i mean. wtf. (yes... 12k im not making that up).
I'll bet the Cafe'd CB550 was freaking nice though man :metal: lol
its pretty. I'll give it that.
stock motor with CR racing carbs. :busey:
I'll use my LC as an example.
Initially, when I bought it, it was in very good complete condition, but quite neglected.
I planned on doing a proper stock resto since all the stuff that usually gets hacked or tossed was all there: center stand, signals, perfect stock pipes, airbox, long rear mudgurard ... etc.
As went along, I found a lot of the stock stuff was neglected beyond repair. Stock carbs were gummed beyond repair: PWK's are cheaper and perform way better. Brake calipers and master were shot: R1 calipers and master are cheaper and perform way better. ETC.
So, my resto morphed into a restomod, because no way was I willing to spend twice as much on parts that perform half was well.
What I ended up with is "stage 2" motor, modern brakes, modern pipes, all with stock looks.
Best of both worlds.
Quote from: m in sc on May 26, 2021, 03:32:02 PM
its pretty. I'll give it that.
stock motor with CR racing carbs. :busey:
I was joking mostly...
I like to keep the paint work looking original, the rest of the bike can be modded.
When I found this bike about 6 years ago it was a no brainer to restore to all original. It was all there except it had chambers. I used the chambers on my hot rod and bought some oem pipes. If I told you how much I have into it you wouldn't believe me (not much :wink:)
(https://i.ibb.co/Sx0jZRn/redrd4001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hMH6TDW)
I am so glad that there are people with the time, money and determination to restore bikes to original condition, because I have no interest. I have changed every bike I've ever had to please myself, and I plan to continue. Do whatever makes you happy.
In addition to the RD350 I'm rebuilding, I have an '84 BMW R100RS that I bought new. When i crashed it years ago, I rebuilt it as I wished, non-stock paint and striping in my school colors, aftermarket exhaust, instruments, engine internals etc. It's my bike... I've been lectured about the changes and the fact that it's still my daily driver (303K miles so far). I tell the critics that it's not a museum piece because I can't afford to build a museum, and besides, it's too much fun to ride...
As a "from a distance" lover of BMW motorcycles, some BWM owners are like the stuffiest of the stuffy. I say that as a hopeful stuffy person I guess.
As DaveDogg mentioned, period correct aftermarket stuff makes for a very interesting build IMO.
It took me 10 years to gather my bits: DG Air Caps, DG swinger, DG Heads, Moto Carrera pipes and Rearsets, etc.
I can tell you that stuff alone gets a lot of interest from passer-bys. Especially the heads.
Dave and I intend to ride to a local show together next month and we both have significant period correct aftermarket parts. It will be cool to have the bikes side by side.
If I bought the bike to sell....OEM
If I bought the bike and all I had to start with was a frame....then restomod.
If I bought a bike that was complete, yet needed a complete rebuild so I could ride it like I wanted....Somewhere in between the two.
I think the point for me here on this is I want to ride the bikes and build them so I can. Removing known issues from the original.
Then saving the original parts and put them up on the shelf until it's time to quit riding....then I put the stock parts back on and cash out.
(https://advrider.com/f/attachments/img_1696-jpg.2004740/)
(https://www.customfighters.com/media/img_2206-jpg.57526/full)
Trust me ......I did not take the easy route by not going 100% OEM.....It takes time and some calculation to make everything work together better than what the factory does
__________________________________________________________
Stock, big and boring
Restomod, sweet ride
(https://i.ibb.co/s6BQX78/1-C70-C6-C9-A62-A-45-B2-A39-B-D99866-D93-DCD.jpg)
Busa hit the nail on the head. My first RD400 was stock, so that's how it was rebuilt. I had one stock GT750 that I restored. The rest were incomplete, so they were modified to a greater or lesser extend. One was changed into a Dunstall with a few upgrades, one was more or less stock but fitted with GS mag wheels. The others were cut and welded and tweaked to make them much lighter and easier to ride.
My RZ is stock apart from seat and pipes and I'd love one with better suspension and bigger motor etc, but I can't see myself doing that to this one. It's not perfect. Well to my eyes it is.
This actually turned out to be one of my better threads.. great responses and thoughts..
That AS1 I recently bought and sold.. so deserved to be restored.
But I had not the time or funds.. I started thinking of turning it into a race bike.. but couldn't do it.. so I sold it.
Hope it gets the restoration it deserved.
Following someone else's instructions on what to do with your bike seldom turns out; it's YOUR bike, and you should do exactly as you want with and to it. You want a reverse cantilever 3 shock front end with Flintstones front wheel, go for it - it's fun to build and personalize to your pleasure.
As far as Concourse bikes and restorations go, the most value is with the unrestored; decent, unmolested and untouched low-wear originals are far and away the most valuable, and usually pull the top trophy even if the bike does not shine like the sun.
The cost of a correct restoration in many cases makes little financial sense, but is utimately fulfilling if it turns out the way you planned. If it's the activity of restoration that sucks you in, pick a rare or highly desirable bike, say a Scott Flying Squirrel over a YDS3 (sorry folks - S3's are one of my favorite platforms, but they are just not worth much). Remember it costs the same amount of time and money (rare parts aside) to restore a Vincent as it does to restore a Vespa.
A resto-mod can also be worth; not all mods are bad. When selling a number of RZ350's about 20 years ago (had 11 at one time once), the top dollar bikes were the YWB Roberts editions with Toomey's, K&N Y-boot intakes, and a quality fork brace. Stock KR's (Cat-converter) were about 85% the value, and all others fell into place behind them. Today, it's stock original, even if it's a RWB.
Period correct stuff is also fun. One of my bikes (first place at both shows I brought it to) is period-correct but obviously modified racer; close to stock, but no cigar. Frame has been cut and the shock angles changed (period Koni's installed), drilled disks, and a set of radical expansion chambers made by Kel Carruthers in 1975 are the most obvious. Proven, industry wide acceptable improvements are not taboo:
(http://i.imgur.com/9wcQWev.jpg) (https://imgur.com/9wcQWev)
The restoration took 5 years to complete, cost a fortune, and gave me more hours of joy, happiness, and challenges than can be described - it would have been '$worth$' more on the collector market if the modifications were reversed and it was a bone stone stocker, but it is the way I wanted it.
The social aspects are also to be considered; it is fun talk what's been done and how it works. At bike shows like VJMC events, some of the best conversations have been out in the parking lot talking about some modified rider someone rode in on. The concourse show people do way too much picking and criticizing for my tastes; that's the biggest reason I only go to shows as a spectator any more...if something isn't right, just deduct the points, and don't badmouth anyone's efforts, as bad as they may be (safety aspects aside; we don't want to kill anyone!).