Looking at installing a Vape in my RD350. Any reason to stick to a certain vendor over another when purchasing or do I get the same instructions, support, etc no matter where it's purchased?
Thanks!
I bought mine direct from HPI a few years ago when Vape was sold as HPI ignition. The prices were very good. It looks like they still sell Vape products and the prices are still good.
Vape does not have a keyway. If you are not comfortable installing without a keyway as reference you can buy one from HVC and pay a bit extra to have a keyway machined in. Otherwise that are all the same.
If you buy from Economy Cycle (Forum Sponsor) you will get incredible support:
https://www.economycycle.com/product-category/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/electrical-ignitions-lighting/ignition/cdi-ignition-systems-components/mzb-powerdynamo-zeeltronic-ignition-systems/
as an fyi, a keyway is just for locating on these. john does include (i think standard) the heavier duty washer and bolt, the 'stock' vape one is an issue, too weak and you cant get it tightened down enough to bite.
I currently run 3 of these systems, never needed a keyway on any of them.
@jradnich
I think you mis-match something. Vape(czech company) and HPI(belgian company) are very different companies and Vape were never sold as HPI ignitions. Vape is the same like the former Powerdynamo(german company) ignitions. Vape was the producer of the electronic components of the Powerdynamo ones. Powerdynamo itself "only" machined the mounting hardware and confectionated the ignitions for the various models. As they closed and moved into other business fields Vape took over the whole process.
Regards Uwe
I was leaning toward Economy this whole time as they have always been good to me. Mark, the bolt kit is another $12, but better than the $24 that HVC charges. HVC is cheaper than Economy on the ignition though and I've found them a little cheaper yet on eBay.
Quote from: stresa on June 29, 2022, 04:41:03 PM
@jradnich
I think you mis-match something. Vape(czech company) and HPI(belgian company) are very different companies and Vape were never sold as HPI ignitions. Vape is the same like the former Powerdynamo(german company) ignitions. Vape was the producer of the electronic components of the Powerdynamo ones. Powerdynamo itself "only" machined the mounting hardware and confectionated the ignitions for the various models. As they closed and moved into other business fields Vape took over the whole process.
Regards Uwe
You're 100% correct. I've used both in the past but it was a few years ago. I had a mismatch in my brain.
I thought that Vape were originally a design and manufacturing company that made parts for others and now sell systems. I bought Vape pickups for an Ignitech system as an example of that.
HPI look like they use parts from different manufacturers and the stators look like PVL and I have no idea who actually manufactures their stuff including their CDI units. Do HPI manufacture or do they have people like Vape provide them?
Back in the day Motoplat and Femsa used to manufacture their stuff in house and Yamaha had their CDI components supplied by Hitachi.
We are spoiled with choices at the moment which is nice.
hpi does in house or committed/contract mfg... I was talking to them quite a bit when i was getting the one done for the cr85 motor. I know they do the cnc & stator work there.
:twocents:
@teazer
The reason Motoplat and Femsa built everything in house had simple political reasons. Back then under the Franco regime spanish companies had to pay high customs if they bought goods from outer spain or/and some goods/parts were not allowed to be imported at all. That was to protect the spanish industry.
@m in sc
Yes Mark, but HPI buys most electronical parts from outside. HPI is mainly a 1 man band on top.
Regards Uwe
Yes, but committed mfg. I get that. ie, made exclusively for them. (for now)
Whoever you end up buying the Vape from, make sure you take all the screws out and blue locktite everything including the small ones for the pickup.
Quote from: rodneya on June 30, 2022, 12:29:55 PM
Whoever you end up buying the Vape from, make sure you take all the screws out and blue locktite everything including the small ones for the pickup.
Very good statement. Coming loose screws happened to a friend of mine with his HPI one at a race 3 weeks ago. Luckily RD's and TZ's are common in our paddock so a spare ignition was found quickly. Otherwise his weekend had been over. We more experienced guys had simply forgot to tell him that in front
Regards Uwe
cutting a keyway makes ignition adjustments impossible and void your warranty i was told. EC provided hardware can prevent it from turning
^ hadnt thought of that to be honest, but you're right. for example, to add a digital controller you need to move the rotor for mechanical ability to run at full advance.
I bought a vape and Zeel box from Fast From The Past to run on my banshee RZ frankenmotor. When I spoke to the owner the first thing he asked is if I was comfortable installing without a keyway. Pretty sure he would not have sold it to me if I had not seemed confident.
Seems like a lot of people botch the install and then call wanting refunds or badmouth the product
Quote from: 2t Fan on June 30, 2022, 02:43:20 PM
cutting a keyway makes ignition adjustments impossible and void your warranty i was told. EC provided hardware can prevent it from turning
You can still remove the woodruff key and adjust timing to whatever you need.
true as well. but you're right, most of the issue is from people botching the install. you need (should) to use a small impact to get it tight or you are playing with fire IMHO.
thick washer
clean taper
small impact
and IMHO preheat the rotor so it shrinks down onto the taper. (think i leanred that from lyn). point to note.., tz ignitions didnt have keyways either. :twocents:
btw. has anyone experience with the VAPE with variable ignition timing?
This could be a good alternative to the Zeeltronic box without an extra programming box. :umm:
https://www.vape.eu/en/yamaha-rd350400-pre-ignition-screw (https://www.vape.eu/en/yamaha-rd350400-pre-ignition-screw)
Regards Mark
Quote from: Flyer on July 01, 2022, 02:41:18 AM
btw. has anyone experience with the VAPE with variable ignition timing?
This could be a good alternative to the Zeeltronic box without an extra programming box. :umm:
https://www.vape.eu/en/yamaha-rd350400-pre-ignition-screw (https://www.vape.eu/en/yamaha-rd350400-pre-ignition-screw)
Regards Mark
I had one of those on my RD350 motor when they first came out. I never had any problems, but I think that Economy stopped selling them because there were some issues. Cant remember what.
I switched out my motor for watercooled with a vape and Zeel after about a year.
Going with Economy. They are my favorite vendor to deal with always. Always working to keep customers happy! Thanks for the input everyone!!!! :metal:
I see where vape has an advance box available. Can this be adapted to any Vape? I have one for my TM400 motor, but have no idea if it has some built in curve to it, or if will need to get the advancing box for more curve options.
I have been using Zeel ignitions for years now, has anyone successfully used a Zeel advance adjuster with a Vape?
yes you can use a vcdi-04 with a vape, I run 2 like that, both rd motors but will work on a single as well. be aware it needs a battery running it like that
Thanks for that :thumbs:
Does the Zeel basically just go in between the coils and the vape?
My Vape does not show what if any type of curve the ignition I bought has (TM400)... which make me wonder how a curve of any kind can come from the vape without some kind of box in between to create one?
it does go in between. in a nutshell, its a delay box at certain points, hence why you have to set the rotor to the max advance you want to run. also usually requires a battery to fire off. (the box)
Would you recommend the vape unit Mark? I'm curious how much it helps.
Quote from: Striker1423 on January 19, 2024, 12:42:08 PMWould you recommend the vape unit Mark? I'm curious how much it helps.
i really have nothing bad to say about them.
I just had a Vape system delivered for a GT500 to replace the PEI. It looks slightly different to the pictures on the web site but beautifully made. The invoice and shipping docs confirm that it's the PEI replacement and not points replacement, so I fitted the stator and wired it all up with only a few small changes to the wiring that was supplied.
When I fitted the rotor, it didn't look right. The rotor is too far out or the stator is too far recessed, so I took a deeper dive and looks like the wrong unit was shipped. I had hoped to finish the install this weekend, so now I have options. Get the unit returned to VApe in Europe, or get an adapter plate machined to space the stator out by about 8mm.
Anyone run into similar problems with a T500 or GT500 Vape system?
no, they shipped you the wrong one for sure. This is Joes bike, right?
Yep. They shipped a hybrid by the looks of things. Mounting plate is clearly for points type, stator coils are common to both I believe, as is the HT coil, but they confirmed that it had the correct rotor and instructions. Looks like someone pulled the wrong stator assembly. They are being totally responsive so far and if they will ship the correct mounting plate, we'll be good to go.