Looking to upgrade my forks this winter. I'm looking at doing the Racetech Gold Valve Emulators.
Does anybody have instructions for these on R5 forks? I think there was some machining required, but can't remember....
I think you just have to drill the damper rod, it can be done on a drill press.
same as an rd
its a bit more than that, you have to deal with the pin though the rod, but its not hard. I have pics at home how i did it.
Rd400 rods have some more machining to do as the domed top needs to be cut off.
R5s and 350s just require drilling I think two holes at the bottom of the rods and then chamfering the holes. Your emulators will probably come with instructions or you can get them from the Race Tech website.
Quote from: m in sc on November 09, 2020, 10:06:52 AM
same as an rd
its a bit more than that, you have to deal with the pin though the rod, but its not hard. I have pics at home how i did it.
R5s and 350s have to have the pin removed too... Good to know! That's easy to do.
If it is the same as the 350 you may as well get the spacers from Racetech as well
i flattent the tops as well i think to get the emulators to fit. Mind you i ran the copies but they work really well. installation needs are the same.
Sounds like I can handle it myself. I can't handle the lack of damping anymore...
Thanks for the input :clap:
for sure, its easy. i'll try to dig up the pics tonight.
I thought you had to turn them down to fit smaller diameter tubes?
nope. i dropped em straight in from mikes xs for 35mm forks. just had to mod the rod, not the valve.
Bill you should post a "How To" when you do it....in my case the forks are the last area of upgrade needed.
well, i -thought- i had more pics, but don't. in my defense i was literally a week away from a divorce looking at the pics dates so :whistle:
heres the mikes xs valve sitting on the cartridge. note i 'flattened' the top of it so it sat flush.
This is on the lightweight rd, so i trimmed the spring spacer the same amount of space the valve used. been working really well for about 4 yrs.
(http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/lightweight-rd/forks/IMG-20170207-00560.jpg)
these are the valves i used:
http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/lightweight-rd/forks/fork-valve-emulators.pdf
It's not quite apples for apples but I was supplying adapters and modding the damper rods for the Kawi triples. Here is a link to those pics and a little info.
http://kawatriple.com/tips/forkmods.htm
For those interested in the subject, there is a lot of information available on the racetech website but you do have to dig a little for it.
Basics of the install is you need to open up the bottom of the rods so enough oil can flow through that the emulator can handle. This is done by drilling additional holes or some have milled slots. You want the emulator doing it's job.
The top of the rod needs to be open so the oil can flow through the emulator. Some fork rods requires the top to be drilled out or cut off, top of this should be square as possible. Lathe is the best but a square and file will work.
I can't remember all the details but there is a height where the emulator should sit, this information is on the racetech website and when I designed the adapters for the Kawis I followed this.
From what I remember on the RDs, racetech was suppling a lighter spring that goes on the top of the emulator. This tells me the springs supplied for the MikesXS clones will also be to heavy, although it appears some have been using them with out issue.
It would be nice if we could confirm what springs racetech was suppling and find a replacement on McMatster Carr.
well, my bike is under 250 lbs wet and it works just fine. I did run alight oil too, this matters as well. (think i twas spectro 10wt?) I don't feel the need to change the springs in the valve at all. its pretty far out on the adjustment but not all the way at all. :twocents:
On my RD350, I got new springs and emulators from Racetech. The emulator came with an adapter bushings, that sit between damper rods and emulators. These adapters also have a plastic piston ring, to seal between fork tube and rebound piston (top part of damper rods)
https://www.racetech.com/ItemInfo/493
Quote from: m in sc on November 10, 2020, 10:23:39 AM
well, my bike is under 250 lbs wet and it works just fine. I did run alight oil too, this matters as well. (think i twas spectro 10wt?) I don't feel the need to change the springs in the valve at all. its pretty far out on the adjustment but not all the way at all. :twocents:
This is good real world information. Did you do anything with the low speed compression holes on the emulator? IIRC, the clones come with 1 hole and I think it was stated to go with 2 for the Kawi's.
Quote from: Dvsrd on November 10, 2020, 12:03:48 PM
On my RD350, I got new springs and emulators from Racetech.
What did they supply for emulator springs that go on top? Any was to measure the spring? I'm guessing they are already in the bike.
also, for posterity, i weigh 205.
My fat ass ain't worried about to strong a spring.
Quote from: oxford on November 10, 2020, 12:50:40 PM
What did they supply for emulator springs that go on top? Any was to measure the spring? I'm guessing they are already in the bike.
Actually, I plan to disassemble the fork to fit new tubes, some time om late january or february.
Quote from: AAAltered on November 10, 2020, 07:44:40 AM
Bill you should post a "How To" when you do it....in my case the forks are the last area of upgrade needed.
Will do!
Anyone have a picture saved they could post of the rd350 damping rod for reference?
I looked high and low through my photos but didn't find one, then I realized I tossed my RD forks and used FZR units. Lol
Anyways, google has lots of results.
https://www.google.com/search?q=rd350+damper+rod&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwj4lMiYlfnsAhUBHd8KHTuMAyIQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=rd350+damper+rod&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1AAWABgo4wHaABwAHgAgAEAiAEAkgEAmAEAqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=8yarX7jPAoG6_Aa7mI6QAg&bih=826&biw=1513&client=opera&hs=KEM
So I finally started tearing into this. I've got the top of the damping rods flattened.
Does the emulator just sit on top under spring pressure?
Bill I've been waiting for this. If possible can you document the upgrade with pictures? Front suspension is one of my last weak spots on the R5..
Quote from: Czakky on April 10, 2021, 09:12:15 PM
So I finally started tearing into this. I've got the top of the damping rods flattened.
Does the emulator just sit on top under spring pressure?
Yes, the fork spring pushes the emulator down on to the top of the damper rod.
Thanks DV.
@AAA, I'll snap some pics but, it's not much to explain.
I wrapped this up earlier this week and finally got my test ride in yesterday. Full disclosure i freshened the springs a few years ago and never set sag correctly so this was a two bird scenario while the forks were apart. Huge improvement though! I didn't want to change too many thing at once so I used the same fork oil weight (20w) besides needing to go to a 10 or 15w it is awesome!
My one screw up was not paying attention to where I drilled the extra damping holes and getting into the threads where the bottom screw holds the damping rod to the lowers. Otherwise I flattened the top first with a hacksaw albeit carefully, then file and dressed it on a flat piece of sandpaper. The bottom of the emulator won't fit into the opening so out comes the tiny tension pin. Unscrew the bushing/top. Then I used a big enough step bit (11/16"?) which I had to shorten with a cut off wheel to save the threads inside the bushing. The only other thing I did was grind a tiny nub off the end of the emulator so that the pin would go back in. A guy could tap it and run a set screw too I suppose.
Move slow and careful, or send it to your buddy with a lathe!
I forgot mention. Check your sag beforehand and make the adjustments to your spacer. The emulator adds a bit of preload, so measure and take that in to account. I ended up taking about 19mm off my spacers and am about perfect with correct springs from Racetech.
Just so ya'll know
These "emulator" things control compression damping and the oil viscosity controls rebound damping
Not enough compression? Tighten the spring on the emulator
Not enough rebound? Increase the viscosity of the oil.
The damping rate has very little to do with the rider's weight. That's the spring's job.
Quote from: bitzz on April 16, 2021, 12:42:02 PM
The damping rate has very little to do with the rider's weight. That's the spring's job.
True, in the first place. Spring rate and preload is selected and set, according to rider weight, bike weight, weight distribution, etc. Basically use the recommended spring rate, and set sag by altering preload.
But a stiffer spring/more preload will try to make the fork extend quicker, since there is more spring force. So wouldn't that require a bit more rebound damping?
Just wondering..
It gets complicated pretty quick... :pop: