Hi, I have to replace the right side crack seal, wondering if this is possible without splitting the cases, I saw a few videos and they did this without splitting but they were not RD videos.
Never done an engine spit before so I'm hoping for the easiest method of course. Also, if I have to split the cases do I need to replace all the seals if they were done about 7 years ago.
Lastly, do you have any advice if I have to split the cases I have plastic bags to mark each part.
Thanks very much for any replies and comments in advance!
you should def split the cases. rd oil seals have a lip/ridge in them along the center of the seal OD that locates in the cases. not all 2 strokes have that locating lip.
Ok thanks, the search engine didn't work but scrolling multiple pages I see this topic has been discussed a bit.
I'm not sure about something I read called a labyrinth seal in the middle is this something RD's have?
RD crank seals have a ridge around them to keep them in place. You might be able to dig the old ones out but you'll never get the new ones in without removing the ridge. So the proper way is to split the cases to replace them. If you really don't want to split the cases you could go with DS7/R5 seals as they don't have the ridge and can be installed without splitting the cases. As far as replacing the other seals, the short answer would be no you don't need to, but I would just because they're cheap and why not since you are already there anyway.
labyrinth seal is a mechanical seal in the middle of the crank, does not need to be replaced unless of severe mechanical crank failure.
Really appreciate the comments, every time I've had to replace/repair something on this bike it's been an interesting adventure, difficult but somehow I've done it.
The engine is the most complicated part to me obviously, I'm going to give it a try this weekend, I read experienced people do it in 3-4 hours I hope I can do it in 2 days.
Hi one more question,
I'm looking at an RZ engine removal guide and wondering if I would need to remove the transmission it seems there is only one seal on the end that is small to be replaced but not sure. Can anyone tell me about how many seals there are to replace? I know I bought a kit but I don't have it in front of me.
Thanks again....
left and right crank seal. lh&rh
output shaft at sprocket (lh)
shift shaft.(lh)
clutch push rod seal (lh)
if you are feeling squirrely, trans shaft plugs, but id leave them alone. :twocents:
in the RH cover: oil pump shaft & kick lever shaft.
LH cover: none
sofe note:
WHEN you split the cases, take the whole clutch basket out and take off the bearing retaining plate behind it, it will hole the 2 cases together. 3 cross head countersunk screws hold it in. you can't miss it when you get the clutch out.
Cannot thank you enough!!!
I'm trying not to stress out about it... but damn it's a big deal to me...
I keep forgetting I bought a dyna kit from Nick and he thinks I"m the biggest piece of sh*t and I lost the instructions to it.... I hope I don't need the instructions found something on his site so I hope it will be enough..
why would he think that? don't worry about the dyna, there are a few of us familiar with the kit install. super easy. :toot:
I actually have a few copies of his directions and would be happy to send a copy to you if you want or need one.
Joe, you have a digital version? we can put it in the tech library :twocents:
I have the RD400 version in PDF
EDIT: Now posted here http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=62.msg12964#msg12964
Ok thanks on the dyna stuff... I don't even want to start something with that guy... long story short I ordered a kit he didn't ship for 4-5 days I cancelled the order he got pissed about it. Called me names etc...
Quote from: m in sc on February 19, 2020, 08:57:19 PM
Joe, you have a digital version? we can put it in the tech library :twocents:
I just have hard copies but could make a PDF.
Take pictures with your cell phone before and as you disassemble the engine. I do it at work often, and just the act of taking pictures helps me to notice and remember how parts go together. Instant reference that you can magnify, a big help to our vintage eyes.
Thanks for the picture idea I thought of that, and I'm off.... so first problem finding a bucket to get the oil out... check but new problem no slide hammer for the flywheel!!! so all stop... harbor freight is my next stop.
I knew all of you would be on the edge of your seats.
You don't need a puller for the rotor (flywheel), all you need is the rear upper motor mount bolt (the one right behind the tach drive. If it's still the original bolt it will screw into the center of the rotor and work like a push bolt. This works best with an impact.
Left rear exhaust bolt works for pulling rotor also. :twocents:
Ok so take the rear bolt out and screw it into the center where the long bolt was and use an impact driver fwd to the right correct?(//) I forgot I had bought a remover but it's definitely larger than the bolt I removed.
Sorry to be so stupid but do I remove the dyna first if so I can't figure out how the unit comes off I took the screws off holding the wiring but the plate is sitting on the circular aluminum center piece (sorry not sure what to call it).
I am going to look for the install manual for it but the manual pictures show a different looking stator (hope thats the correct name)...see I was dreading this.
Hi I took the 13mm bolt off the rear of the engine mount above the swing arm and it's too large and I'm referring to the triangle frame support there are 3 bolts two smaller 13mm nut and a larger 17mm nut and I'm talking about the smaller 13mm.
Ok I'm looking at the dyna instructions thank you for that... on page 9 it shows the install but I don't quite understand how it's on the bike. shouldn't the aluminum in the center just come off? what I don't understand is how the bolt size is smaller than 13mm the flywheel remover I bought says 20mm...
just take the aluminum part out. that gives access to the rotor. then take the alternator off, its 3 crosshead screws the whole housing comes out with the stator. then, the bolt you are going to use is an m10x1.25 thread
(//) this doesn't come off I'm obviously missing something. Should I use a screw driver and pry it off? I'm hesitant due to it being aluminum. Plus that cannot be the correct way could it?
My apologies it is a screwdriver behind it to wedge it out situation. The stress level of working this... I'm very sorry
You have to remove the modules (the black things on either side of the aluminum piece. They are fastened to an aluminum plate that it's screwed to the stator housing. Leave the modules on the plate. Just remove the screws holding the plate to the stator housing.
Quote from: Jspooner on February 20, 2020, 08:09:05 PM
You have to remove the modules (the black things on either side of the aluminum piece. They are fastened to an aluminum plate that it's screwed to the stator housing. Leave the modules on the plate. Just remove the screws holding the plate to the stator housing.
Forget that. They can stay in place. The aluminum piece should just pull off.
Thanks I got it off and once I did the larger bolt holding the motor did the trick on removing the stator. It's gotten dark now so I will return tomorrow to resume no light in the area I'm working on this (meaning the work light is not quite enough)..
I can't thank you all enough... hate depending on people to help.. this seems easier than it is.
I'm sorry to ask another two questions. I'm stuck on removing the rotor
I've done two things.
I've tried screwing the bolt in and I've tried using my impact driver fwd to the right and that's not doing it and I've tried my 2lb mini sledge about 10 times. Any ideas? I've hit the impact about 4x's to the right about 1/2 turn each time.
The other issue is the wires on the brush gear wiring harness, do I remove the magnets and unhook all the wires or is there a trick to the rubber grommet... this bike makes me feel so stupid(//)
use an air impact gun or battery one, you need to tighten the bolt in to push it off the crank.. the bolt IS the puller. you're taking it off a tapered shaft with a keyway. don't hit the bolt or rotor with a hammer, ever.
grommet comes out the way you are looking at it, work the boot best you can and get it out that way.
Don't take this the wrong way, but might want to reach out to a member thats local to you for help on this project. a little direct experience can go a long way.
I'm on the other coast so can't really help. :wave:
Quote from: oldguyRD1964 on February 21, 2020, 04:04:07 PM
The other issue is the wires on the brush gear wiring harness, do I remove the magnets and unhook all the wires or is there a trick to the rubber grommet... this bike makes me feel so stupid(//)
To remove the grommet take a dull straight blade screwdriver on the back side (the side where it exits) and carefully push down and in on the outside of the grommet until you see the hole in the case, once you see the hole you can gently start pushing the grommet thru the hole by working around it with your dull screwdriver. It's really not that big of a deal.
Quote from: m in sc on February 21, 2020, 04:21:13 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, but might want to reach out to a member thats local to you for help on this project. a little direct experience can go a long way.
I'm on the other coast so can't really help. :wave:
I agree with Mark on this. If you are that overwhelmed by this already you should stop before something gets messed up. I am in WI so I can't help you unless you want to ship your engine to me.
Admin... I totally get it, 1st you were right I got it off with the impact... many youtube videos use a hammer..
I'm sorry if I'm bumming the forum out. I don't know anyone that has an RD. I'll try really hard to solo this from here out. Sorry I bothered everyone here.
Quote from: oldguyRD1964 on February 21, 2020, 04:39:55 PM
Admin... I totally get it, 1st you were right I got it off with the impact... many youtube videos use a hammer..
I'm sorry if I'm bumming the forum out. I don't know anyone that has an RD. I'll try really hard to solo this from here out. Sorry I bothered everyone here.
You aren't bothering anyone, we are here to help, just don't want to see you mess something up and get frustrated which happens alot with these old bikes. More power to you for wanting to do it yourself. Keep the questions coming.
absolutely! :cheerleader: keep going :cheerleader: you arent bothering anybody, we all started somewhere :vroom:
One suggestion on removing the rubber plug that carries the wires through the case. Use a heat gun to warm it up a bit. The nearly 50 year old rubber will be very stiff. Warming it up makes it temporarily more pliable. You can do the same thing to reinstall it.
(//)Hello,
A problem has occurred and I wanted to ask your advice before I try something. I have a JIS #2 and before I tried to unscrew it fit tight. I pushed down and gave it a quick twist. The first screw came, the second circled I thought it did but I can see it is not a good situation.
The lower screw round head looks bad I barely tried to loosen it. I'm assuming the mechanic I hired 5 years ago didn't do a great job there. The top screw flat head I noticed the first screw I loosened felt very odd like cross threaded and I'm wondering if the right one is as it is not flush.
Next issue is the crank gear, I obviously got the nut off, but the gear not, I tapped the gear a few times lightly with a rubber mallet but nothing happening.
Back to the screws, I have a manual impact with a hammer I believe the bits are JIS. My normal is to take a dremel tool and cut a notch but never tried it with an engine that I care about.
Love your advice here.
Those screws you are trying to remove don't need to come out for what you are doing. What I do when the heads start to mushroom like that is I'll take a flat punch to the heads and give it a couple of good whacks with a hammer to try and push the metal somewhat back into shape and then give it another go with your impact. If that doesn't work then you have to resort to other methods. As far as the gear goes, just get behind it with something and lightly pry on it. It will come off. It's just stuck from being on there so long.
If the screws don't need to come out what should I do, leave them as is, or try to get them out. I now have a cylinder problem as well so I can't win at the moment.
The whole engine was apart 5 years ago obviously not by me, I rode 500 miles, and now all this...
If they didn't loosen at all when you were messing with them I'd probably leave them. The flathead that looks like it might be cross threaded could be a problem if you get it out of the threads are in fact buggered up. Looks like whoever worked on it for you needs a lesson in how to start screws in threaded holes.
The flat screws on the top left I hit with an impact it moved 1/2 turn but it's very tight literally need the impact to turn it 1/8 each hit but I'm not going crazy hitting it... I'm torn I don't know what to do with it but if you hit with an impact 4 times to get to 1/2 turn loose it should come off easy right?
If I'm going to mess with one I should do the other. I can't tell if both are cross threaded or not. The other two screws both popped when I gave it quick 1/4 turn with the screw driver.
I was really hoping I wasn't going to post until it was done.
:twocents: if they're tight like a tiger, I say leave 'em. You've bigger fish to fry
I agree with Wade. If they're tight run em.
Ok I did re-tighten the two screws, however, I think my case is cracked on the very back side upper... I wanted to also ask you if you've ever seen this from yamabond 4 oozing and pushing the seal away (//) my original problem was a leaking right seal.
I almost have it split once I do, I'll see if what I think is a crack really is.
That area looks fine to me.
I'll chime in on the little screws...they are loctited from the factory and some builders re-loctite them also.
Even with my 30 years of removing them, they can be real hard to get out.
I buy them by the bag of a 100 if you want to know how many I still screw up getting them out.
Chuck
P.S.
I was at the vintage races all weekend and wasn't here on the forum...But the other boys replying are doing a fine job!!
I hate to be the guy, but ... do you have a shop manual?
The Haynes one is available on Amazon for like $12, and will lead you step-by-step thru the disassembly and reassembly process. It's worth it's weight in gold and makes excellent bathroom and bedside reading as well.
As for the cracked case, the castings are pretty rough in places, and casting flaws often look like cracks. Certainly could be a crack, but most likely just cosmetic. Post up a pic when you can.
And as for the little screws inside the sidecovers, don't worry too much about buggering them up. Set them aside during disassembly and go get new ones before you put it all back together. Hardware store fasteners are fine. Allen heads will make it easier to take apart next time. Clean everything real well and use a little blue loctite when you're buttoning it back up.
Thanks for that information on the locktite...
I have manuals but I what I notice is there are some description on what to do but they don't give all details and the pictures sort of show the item and then it's gone...
I realize I am pretty ignorant and asking basic questions.. I'm not highly mechanical. Sorry but it's these bikes you can't take it a shop. If there was a shop it would 1000 which I don't have.
I do have one seal it's really small and I don't know where it would go....
about 1/2 in diameter...
Also, I do not see the ball bearing from the clutch do they fall out easily? I never tilted the engine when I took the basket off and I never saw the ball bearing...
Thanks....
Shift shaft seal maybe?
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/44655925085_f668516ff8_k.jpg)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1928/44657168225_6497c959b0_k.jpg)
(Dusty350 pics)
Most seal kits fit RD350 and RD400's. They come with extra seals that are not used in the 350.
One is the left hand side cover on a 400 where the shift shaft comes through the cover is a small seal as the 400s added a zerk grease fitting to the cover which 350's didn't have.
Chuck
Yeah, the one in the 400 and LC sidecover Chuck mentions is the one I was thinking of but I got distracted by Dusty's pretty pics.
Take a look at this thread by Dusty350 off Norbo's forum. It's very detailed and pic heavy LC engine reassembly thread. Some subtle differences in this engine from yours, but most of it is the same. If nothing else it'll get you used to looking at all the little parts and where they go.
https://rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/45676/another-lc-engine-rebuild
I'll look around for one on the aircooled 350 engine.
Here's an RD400 rebuild thread, also by Dusty350. Thanks again mate. These threads were invaluable to me when rebuilding my LC bottom end last year.
https://rdlccrazy.proboards.com/thread/49716/rd400e-engine-rebuild
Appreciate that link, and the pictures. The seal I'm referring to is not that one, it probably goes in the parts under the trans. gears... I didn't take that off.... I noticed I bought some plugs for the shifter but I didn't pop them out as I figured you would need to take that apart and I can't handle that at the moment since that's where my stripped - cross threaded screws are.
One thing I will need later is a few electrical male plugs I recall they are not standard size vs what my local electrical store carries... I will need to find a replacement. In a certain way you guys were right about this not being overly difficult of course I say that being the neurotic person I am. Of course I won't know until I get this together an do a pressure test, which could be weeks away... :help: I sincerely appreciate all the assistance I really owe you all some drinks...
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking...
as far as electrical:
stay away from hardware store stuff. just, dont. the correct stuff is available.
https://www.economycycle.com/product-category/bullet-connectors-wire-electrical/connector-blocks-spades/
https://www.economycycle.com/product-category/bullet-connectors-wire-electrical/bullet-connectors-terminals/
https://www.economycycle.com/product-category/bullet-connectors-wire-electrical/connector-kits/
do it right and never sweat it again. I've actually used these kits on everything, including the old american cars i have when im doing non stock mods.
or here:
http://www.vintageconnections.com/