In the fall of 2022, after a great deliberation me & my brother went to have a see on couple Gammas offered on sale about 100 miles from my abode. Looking at the pictures, I wasn't particularly drawn to either one of them condition-wise (but hey it's still a unicorn - Gamma!!!). I figured with cold season and nothing better to do, there's no harm in checking out the bike and test waters plus you don't get to see these everyday and I've never seen one in person. The nicer ones that once in a while come for sale as we all know go for a fortune so this I suppose was an opportunity to fiddle around and build as-you-go (budget permitting).
I confess to be a Yamaha guy all my life but this thing made me convert I should say. There's the RD/RZ 500 but the Gamma ....... is it's own league as many say so I'm on the journey to find out myself.
So there they were two of them. First one required a full motor rebuild, in non-running state though it did come with a TON of parts but for a guy with limited skill, I backed out right away. I still to this day kick myself and will continue to do so until I get my hands on another.
The second, an interesting one (you'll know soon the why part), was something we zeroed on. Plan was - my brother would buy it and I'll be working to get it fixed. With a R1 and a Warrior XV1700 between us it would be more of a 'just for grins' addition. And here it is, ...
Great find. The use of the yellow paint is quite...interesting. :eek:
Quote from: kpke on February 13, 2024, 09:10:55 AMGreat find. The use of the yellow paint is quite...interesting. :eek:
Thanks. I reckon yellow was the kool color scheme back in the day as in to stand out in crowd/make a statement. Too bad it didn't age well. At least not for me.
I take it those are stock Suzuki pipes (who has ever seen those on a Gamma?!)...do they have this stamped on them?
(https://i.postimg.cc/2jBjGb9j/01-E043-A7-8-BEA-43-B1-A014-ECEE919-F07-BF.jpg)
very cool. IF i were to ever go w a 4cyl, it would deg be a suzuki over a yamaha. I'll be honest, haven't really desired either and have ridden both, but for sure, the gamma is the better of the 2. Have fun w that one!
Quote from: 85RZwade on February 14, 2024, 09:54:51 AMI take it those are stock Suzuki pipes (who has ever seen those on a Gamma?!)...do they have this stamped on them?
Well, that's what the bike came with and it's got the number stamped but I've since changed them to a different ones (possibly Toomey's) from what I was told at - https://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=177.75
Quote from: m in sc on February 14, 2024, 11:01:12 AMvery cool. IF i were to ever go w a 4cyl, it would deg be a suzuki over a yamaha. I'll be honest, haven't really desired either and have ridden both, but for sure, the gamma is the better of the 2. Have fun w that one!
Sure, that's what the consensus are with RD/RZ being more road-oriented race replica but RG being track-oriented.
i found the rg easier to ride overall. more useable power.
If you've ever seen the gear clusters side by side you would realize the gamma is based on a race bike, the Yamaha more of a street bike.
Nice score! :thumbs: Wonder how hard it might be to strip the paint off the frame back to bare metal? That's what I'd do if mine and would look at clear or powdercoating. Yes, I know it would be a lot of work! :huh:
Quote from: Evans Ward on February 15, 2024, 08:10:14 AMNice score! :thumbs: Wonder how hard it might be to strip the paint off the frame back to bare metal? That's what I'd do if mine and would look at clear or powdercoating. Yes, I know it would be a lot of work! :huh:
Exactly! how hard it might be to strip the paint off the frame back to bare metal? But if you're a newbie into this as I am it's as if reaching Everest but can be done.
needs to be torn all the way down then blasted. id def take it to a shop and have a pro do that. wotn be cheap but def worth it, and then you can go thru everything to make sure its right (or at least safe).
It was leaking gas and was barely running. It only required to have float valve replaced on one of the 4 carbs (bottom-right as I recall) and possibly a thorough check to be road worthy. It was dirty, yellow, ugliest thing you would even consider but that sweet square four motor was something worth attention. The seller was honest in full-disclosure of the bike and it came with few extra parts (goodies). Later on you'll see how he came of help and we got to be good friends (Thanks Eric! I'm sure you'll find this an interesting read). We figured that it was reasonable price with condition and we'll have a beater just because again it's a freakin' Gamma and if anyone has had a itch for 2-stroke we all know that scratching with a 500 is the pinnacle to shoot for(I know the mighty TZ750 is the holy grail but let's just stay 'street legal' for now).
We looked thru and figured how hard can it be but decided to think about it a bit more. Upon leaving the seller (who's needless to say a thru-and-thru Gamma guy), handed us a poster of 1993 world champion - Kevin Shwantz on his RGV500 as token of appreciation since we came ALL the way. I was much impressed by his friendly gesture and little did I know that this will be instrumental in decision making in next week or so.
So I got home and hung this poster in my garage. For the rest of the all next week I would go to garage and stare at the poster and debate if I should get my hands dirty. This was a childhood dream come true of getting near those GP machines in my mind. It's kool to have one in stable but is it worth the effort (there have been numerous horror stories of projects that never took off that we hear so many times). I don't need per say another one but we all end up with wants more than the needs (the full cycle of economics). I finally gave my brother a go at it. What's the worse that's gonna happen? It'll just sit there? ..... fine.
So I had friend of mine help me in transporting it. It was snowing and bitterly awful weather by the time we reached but it was quite a trip to look back at.
Quote from: m in sc on February 15, 2024, 11:32:53 AMneeds to be torn all the way down then blasted. id def take it to a shop and have a pro do that. wotn be cheap but def worth it, and then you can go thru everything to make sure its right (or at least safe).
If Rick Lance was still alive, I would have taken it to him, none better than the Gamma Guru himself but I was bit late since he passed few years ago (RIP). You won't imagine but the few shops that we have in this part of the country were either ignorant of this or just flatly denied to work as it's older than 2000 :bang:
So I took it upon myself.
For rest of year thru the beginning of next (2023), I was not sure what to do with it .... just get the valves from https://www.lancegamma.com and give it a go? But that yellow .... (Or Ol'Yeller for those of who know it thru the Gammalist)? I just couldn't stand it. Then again, with aluminum chassis, there's no sand blasting to be done in fear on cracking-up the light-weight frame or so I read. Too many folks have reported it. Then there's parts availability if restoring it to it's former glory. And then you got, as one of the youtube reviewers puts it - a spaghetti of wires running thru which needs some serious skills.
So in doing some research I figured there's no battery box and hence had my brother inquire about it. During the course of conversation, the seller not only had it but also agreed to help us by providing his services for a fee. I agreed to it as I couldn't foresee any SME better than him. So he would come in a consultant and I would happily play the second fiddle. To me it was great idea to learn the bike.
And the stripping starts ..... Notice the same poster in the picture.
And in matter of 6 or so hours, we got down to bare bones. Of course with Eric, guiding each part was pictured, bagged and tagged. This was so very crucial and made job seamless when putting back.
Have you determined if the yellow is powder coat or paint? Hopefully paint!!
I'm curious what's under the blue cover. I have on like that.
(https://i.imgur.com/ytW9Blu.jpg)
Quote from: kpke on February 20, 2024, 08:33:01 AMHave you determined if the yellow is powder coat or paint? Hopefully paint!!
I'm curious what's under the blue cover. I have on like that.
(https://i.imgur.com/ytW9Blu.jpg)
That's just the yellow paint. Under the blue cover lies my 04 R1, all stock except PC5, GYTR slip-ons and few tiny bits. I did see you have an LE :olaf: ... 04 thru 08, the best ones IMHO.
I started off big in that I wanted to go for wider tires, better front suspension perhaps from newer gixxer and get different banana swing-arm and so on and so forth but this was not only expensive but time consuming so I skipped it and target was to get to as stock as possible except for exhausts.
The main things were paint strip (using chemical only, no sand blasting), powder coat wheels and the bodywork repair for tail and side cover. I tried some paint removers but in vain. Time for experts to take over and turn it back to shiny aluminum as it should be.
proper. will absolutely be worth the work
Sweet bike! You'll love gamma man it's ahoot! Here's a pic of mine, banana swing arm and a few other mods. Cheers man, when you get it built bring it to the dragon!
Quote from: 2 Stroke Jamoke on February 20, 2024, 06:54:51 PMSweet bike! You'll love gamma man it's ahoot! Here's a pic of mine, banana swing arm and a few other mods. Cheers man, when you get it built bring it to the dragon!
Thank you! That's a slick bike you got, I was looking for similar swing-arm and matter of fact I've ran into yours while I was looking around at - https://www.bikebound.com/2022/12/21/suzuki-rg500/
And yea dragon is in plans.
While waiting on wheels, I got the body work fixed myself with Plastex - https://www.plastex.net/
This was Eric's idea and worked out great. I changed the bulky front blinkers to flush mounts and they seem to sync up with rear ones which you'll see later. I also, got the carbs with correct float valves and filters although the valve needed re-adjustment which he did.
Then while going thru what others did, I ended up with a Ducati plate light which I saw on one RG and that looked sharp. Here it is - https://www.flickr.com/photos/teamheronsuzuki/49200160228
Then with the wheels back, I hit a snag with a stripped bolt. I always was fearful of this but thanks to my friend Brian, who saved the day.
On the next meetup with Eric and about 6 or so hours, we got the motor back in, wheels, exhaust and wiring. We actually started the bike for the first time and it honestly freaked me out reviving at about 7k once the exhaust valves open up.
holy shit i thought i worked fast. thats impressive :olaf: :clap:
:stupid-1: and that's a great project! Just beautiful :thumbs:
Most righteous!!!
Like M in SC, I am so impressed by your work ethic and drive to get things done quickly and correctly. I'm gonna guess that you are much younger than the median age of members here? :huh: :eek: :whistle: I'm thinking you may have both RZs completed before the end of March! :olaf: :thumbs:
Thanks everyone for their encouraging comments.
Note that this was done last year (Jan - Mar 2023 while I'm currently working on the RZ) and I'm just putting things in order to the best of my recollection and perhaps provide some motivation for people who are on fence like me (Do your thing .... we all live once). Better half was out on a long stay-cation so I was just about living to work on Gamma more like a mission. I call it therapy myself.
Let's say I'm a tad bit older than the Gamma and yea I'm planing to get it done by March.
While it was starting and idling fine, I was not happy with the exhausts, I suppose they're okay but from aesthetics, weight savings and sound perspective they aren't. Since I didn't want to loose an arm and leg for the current offerings, finding a used set would have been nothing but stroke of luck especially within the continental US. Luckily, Mark from https://www.lancegamma.com was kind enough to let go one of his for a reasonable price.
A couple of coats and the end result was fabulous.
It just gets better and better :shocked:
:olaf: :olaf:
Those are the same exact pipes I have on mine! I changed the silencers but I was told they are "wolf" pipes
Quote from: 2 Stroke Jamoke on February 21, 2024, 08:48:44 PMThose are the same exact pipes I have on mine! I changed the silencers but I was told they are "wolf" pipes
Wolf pipes were from a shop in Toronto that just re-branded other pipes. RZ350 Wolf pipes are FPP's with Wolf stickers on the cans.
Quote from: rodneya on February 22, 2024, 10:29:47 AMQuote from: 2 Stroke Jamoke on February 21, 2024, 08:48:44 PMThose are the same exact pipes I have on mine! I changed the silencers but I was told they are "wolf" pipes
Wolf pipes were from a shop in Toronto that just re-branded other pipes. RZ350 Wolf pipes are FPP's with Wolf stickers on the cans.
Thanks for the info, I don't see any brand stamping but again I don't know if they are supposed to be any in the first place. It's been a mystery ever since.
While all was fine, the bike was running too rich and would struggle under 6k so there was definitely something with jetting. With the new-to-bike exhausts, filters and of course the elevation, it needed some skills to fine-tune it and so I had it towed to a vintage Honda mechanic in town who couldn't do a whole lot except for fixing the kick-stand (I'm told the German models which is what this is have the self-retracting kickstand much like some Ducatis) so he made it into a regular one but that's pretty much it. It was a let down as the tuning was still at large, the guy could not even diagnose the issue.
I also had the side fairing cover patched and painted professionally. It was very impressive work from the guy ..... money well spent.
Nice. Looking good. Too bad the dude couldn't diagnose your problem. I hate jetting bikes and especially hate(d) jetting my 500. Not fun.
I think you are pushing the limits of your 1 ton dually and gazillion lb capacity trailer with the gamma :lol:
Quote from: kpke on February 24, 2024, 10:24:45 AMNice. Looking good. Too bad the dude couldn't diagnose your problem. I hate jetting bikes and especially hate(d) jetting my 500. Not fun.
I think you are pushing the limits of your 1 ton dually and gazillion lb capacity trailer with the gamma :lol:
Yea it's no fun to work on 4 carbs each time when it comes changing needle positions or jets for that matter. That dually actually belongs to a towing guy who is a car guy himself and stated it to be 650 hp with some mods including chip. I tell you I couldn't keep up with it, fun ride.
I got it back and stored it for next month or two as life was taking it's turns in peaks and valleys. Eric got back for the third time and we continued our tuning - changing the needle jest positions on all 4 carbs. It got better with needle jet re-positioning but still there was not a smooth transition all the way leading up to the power band. It's always good to meet like-minded people who share same hobbies.
I then spoke to a good acquaintance of mine who has got a collection of old and new motorcycles and is mechanical engineer by profession. Taking his advice I got the bigger jets - 210, 220 and 230 along with changing needle jet position. It still needs some more tinkering but the RZ has kept me busy lately.
AND there you have it ..... the end result. In the hindsight 20/20, would I do it again? You betcha!!!
It's borderline therapy / addiction.
a HUGE thanks to:
==========================================
Erik - Couldn't have done without you buddy, appreciate your help all along.
Brian - My good friend who bailed me out on each cornerstone.
Mark (https://www.lancegamma.com) - For all the advice, parts and exhausts.
Qamar - My friend/mechanic.
Farukh - For solid advice on jetting.
Michel (https://alexmichrg500.wixsite.com/rgshop) - For those REALLY hard to get parts.
Jerry - For help with decal.
Rick Lance (RIP) - Never met the guy but almost bought one from him many moons ago. His numerous writings on various forums were of immense help.
Rich (https://www.youtube.com/@RG500_detectorist) - For your inspirational videos. You rock!
Roserunner47 (https://www.youtube.com/@Roserunner47) - For your real rare to find videos on the Gamma tuning.
Matt and team - You guys did an awesome job. Yay!
Tim - For help on wheel bearings.
Orlando - For the paint work.
Modern Classics Sportbike Restorations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5flQGKu8BaI - This video really got me pull the trigger.
Numerous good folks that my memory fails to retrieve names who inspired, motivated to restore this machine on various platforms that I gained knowledge and useful information from.
==========================================
Quite the transformation. Beautiful result!!!
Quote from: kpke on February 26, 2024, 08:20:36 AMQuite the transformation. Beautiful result!!!
Thank you! It's all because of good folks like you who help on forums and videos. :metal:
wow!
Very cool :righteous: :righteous:
Quote from: kpke on February 26, 2024, 08:20:36 AMQuite the transformation. Beautiful result!!!
A huge +1 on that comment! Nicely done. Congrats on the end result :clap:
Thanks guys.
I still have to play around with the jetting though (main jet & needle), it does have room for improvement but have been lazy due to the fact that working on 4 carbs is no fun.