Last time I rode the RD350 a couple weeks ago:
Half tank of fuel or a little less running hard through the gears shifting at 9000. 1/2 mile from home headed uphill at the top of 3rd lost power and nosed over at 8500. I got out of it and shifted to 4th and ran easy the 1/4 mile or so to the driveway. Ran fine no noise. Revved normally with no load. Pulled plugs: coffee and creme. I parked it and hadn't messed with it since. I don't have fuel filters installed so it can't be that. I contacted M in SC and he said either petcock or vent obstruction. Then he told me the test I needed to do to confirm whether it was the petcock or vent. Fast forward to yesterday. Frank B stopped by and we checked it out with the test Mark gave us. Fill the tank all the way up.Crimp one fuel line (hemostats) Place the other line in a graduated container. Turn petcock on for exactly one minute with the fuel cap on. Record the fuel level and pour the gas back into the tank. Leave the fuel cap open. Repeat the test. If all is working as it should be and the timing is identical the fuel level in the graduated container should be the same. It wasn't. 2 ounces difference in one minute. Next step is to take the cap apart and very likely find the little vent hole plugged or compromised in some way. Thanks M in SC and Frank B. More to follow.
glad to help. hopefully its just that simple. :olaf:
I sure like hangin with geniuses!
Quote from: dgorms on February 12, 2024, 08:33:14 PMI sure like hangin with geniuses!
Well, you've got the address and you've been invited...
SCIENCE!!!
... and a clever, simple way to conduct the necessary experiments. Good one, Mark!
:thumbs: I like it when a test procedure indicates the likely issue on the first go.
Good info!
I have a 4 wheeler I suspect is being fuel starved.
just an easy cap vent test. works on.. anything TBH.
Well after fooling with it for a little over an hour and a call to M in SC for technical advice I am pretty certain it is fixed. Test ride to follow once the snow melts. We are getting snowed on right now, but it doesn't look like we are going to get the 5-8 inches forecast.
I took the cap apart and I didn't find any trash, but I did find the seal had rotated on the little inner washer and covered up the inner vent hole. I also took my scribe and ever so slightly opened up the main vent hole on the outer flange that the big seal goes on per M in SC. You have to keep everything in alignment while installing the big seal that goes against the tank itself and keep the three little nubs on the inner seal in the matching holes in the outer flange that orients the whole mess and then compress the spring to install the e-clip that holds it all together.
Next, I performed the flow test and here is where it gets weird. As before I used the same graduated container and pinched off the same line as before and opened the petcock to on for exactly 60 seconds. Before I got 3 cups of fuel in one minute with the petcock open and the cap on and two ounces more than that with the cap open. As stated before that told us we had a vent obstruction.
My 1st test with the correctly oriented parts for the vent and I got four cups of fuel in 60 seconds with the cap closed, vast improvement. I poured those four cups back into the tank as before. The follow up with the cap OPEN for 60 seconds should have been four cups but was only THREE. I thought briefly that I had lost my mind, so I repeated the test two more times, with the same results then called M in SC. Then I repeated the test while I had him on the phone, same results. Mark said to reverse the order and repeat the test and I did, same results. Mark said he can't explain it and nether can I. So, we agreed to take the win and ride it and see what happens. I observed the flow coming out of the line into the container and it is obviously stronger with the cap closed then open, which in my mind is the exact opposite of what it should be and furthermore the opposite if what it was before?
I notice when I wheel my bike out of the garage and jostle the gas in the tank you can hear it gets pressurized and vents out the cap. Once my cap vent was completely plugged, I think when I replaced the rubber gasket, and the bike shut off after a quick warm up and within the first mile riding.
it was weird for sure. put of the sun! 54 degrees.
As it turns out, gravity and physics don't change. Today I did the test again. Same results. Then I shot a little puff of air into the line I had off. Repeated the tests and got 4 cups exactly in 60 seconds with the cap on and off. So I am draining the tank now to further investigate. Apparently something is blocking the stand pipe intermittently.
I took the tank off and inspected it with my borescope. I didn't find anything. Took the petcock completely apart and other than the already known no screen or standpipe filters didnt find anything amiss. I will be ordering a new petcock from John at Economy Cycle along with some wiring stuff I need for the Zeeltronic setup on my Gray Ghost RZ.
(https://i.postimg.cc/15Mmx6kH/20240218-124610.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RN65K3V6)
I did electrolysis on this tank when the bike was first resurrected years ago. The inside still looks good. I filled it up today with Evapo-Rust full strength and I will leave it in there until my Economy Cycle order arrives. I figure it is a good idea to make sure and already had the 5 gallons of Evapo-Rust on hand since the Gray Ghost tank job.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MK7zx0HX/20240224-160804.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0byT0wpq)
The tank after a week filled with Evapo-Rust full strength. I did a water rinse then put a 1/2 gallon of WD 40 in the tank and coated it thoroughly, drained that and blew inside the tank with the air hose.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjbY2g1c/20240224-162804.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JsyS9C66)
New petcock from John at Economy Cycle prepped and just a touch of Gasoila on the threads, sealing washers and tank gasket. A bit of trivia, M in SC took me to the hardware store in Charlotte if memory serves in 2004 and we bought that can of Gasoila to seal the threads on the Pingel for the Phoenix Project. Still good after all these years :patriot:
(https://i.postimg.cc/W3gHrnQk/20240224-171355.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJf63qfv)
Another quality product from John at Economy Cycle :righteous: Thanks John!!
Filled it up with gas. No leaks. Fired up on the 2nd kick. It was raining and cold so no test ride until later in the week. More to follow. Thanks M in SC for your guidance as always.
Great result, Tim
Thanks much, those are good quality reproductions.
Tim, is there a good story about how the Phoenix project got its name?
if he still has the pics... its a fairly epic story.
here's a video of the initial fire up from.. 2004. :eek: from back at my OLD house/garage.
Yes, Mark it is an epic story...
I have the pictures on a disc somewhere. It was 2003.I was living in Mossy Head, FL working for FL DOC as a Correctional Officer after retirement from the USAF as an MC-130 P Flight Engineer in 2001. I had a 30x40 wooden shop and quite a variety of bikes and vehicles to include:
A 1977 Chevrolet Blazer Chalet Camper (one of 1100 made in 77), A 1973 Ranchero GT 351 Cleveland Cobra-Jet 4 speed car loaded, with AC (last year of the Cobra-Jet and last year of the 4 speed in a Ranchero), a 1976 FLH Harley Davidson with 500 miles on a $4000 engine rebuild and a fresh paint job. A freshly refurbished 1972 H2 750 Triple with a hot rod Denco motor and pipes that I horse-traded a 74 RD 350 and some cash to get from M in SC, 6 parts triples and possible future project bikes. A 1984 VW Rabbit diesel (my back and forth to work car) and a big stereo set up that I had since the 80s that I got on Okinawa. I had the walls decorated with flying memorabilia and systems posters from my time as a flight instructor on the MC-130P and a whole bunch of tools and equipment.
I had just backed the Ranchero into the shop to do an oil change as I was going to drive it to VA to see my Daddy and my wife was sick in bed, so I went inside to check on her. It was getting ready to storm, typical NW Florida weather for the time of year. We heard a loud thunderclap and a crash. I came out the door of the house. The flames were already billowing out of the open garage and walk in doors. Lightning had struck the shop. I ran to the shop and tried to get the bikes out, but I had a loaded 12 gauge shot gun just inside the entry door with a box of shells on a shelf beside it and the rounds started going off, so I had to run back out.
The shop burned to the ground in 10 minutes. All we could do was stand there and cry. It took the local fire department 20 minutes to respond. It was so hot in there that the aluminum engines in the bikes melted and made a pool of aluminum under each bike and the steel cranks and transmission gears fell onto the frame rails. Everything in the shop and parked next to it was completely destroyed.
The only drivable vehicle we had left was my wife's Oldsmobile. I got online the next day on the old Kawasaki Triples Worldwide Forum and told everyone what happened. Insurance settled for ¾ of the estimated value of the contents (after a long fight and subsequent cancellation of my homeowner's insurance) and I was able to build a new metal shop and replace the tools and equipment and I bought my 95 FLHR and a used Chevy Blazer.
I am still humbled from the response and forever grateful to everyone involved. People from all over the world read my post and sent me parts and money and donated labor and machine work to build the Phoenix Project named from the mythical bird rising from its' own ashes. Jeff Gootblatt provided the titled 76 KH 500 frame and rolling chassis. Big Mo Jerry Stice donated a set of cases and cylinders. The late Ron Reichert of Purple Haze Racing built the Stage 2 plus H2 750 engine and back cut transmission and donated all his labor and machine work. He also sold me a pile of parts for his cost, no markup. Kurt Wolfgang Petersen donated the 1970 AMC Signal Green paint job and prep work. Rick Brett in the UK donated the custom-made instruments that say "Phoenix" and "The Bike Built by The Board" on them. He also sent parts. There are also a host of others throughout the 2-stroke world who donated parts and money, again thank you all. Triple Ed Zunz in Sarasota provided a pile of parts and recovered the seat. I assembled the bike in the fall of 03 and winter of 04. Back then there were Two Gap meets, one in May and one in August. We decided to introduce the Phoenix at the August meet in 2004.
M in SC integrated the 72 H2 wiring harness into the 76 H1 instruments and lights, wired the bike and took me into his home. We did final assembly and the initial fire up, (the video above) break in, and initial jetting. I thought we were going to get locked up the 1st time we took the Phoenix out on the road for an extremely late-night breakfast after a long day and night wrenching (for the life of me I can't remember where we ate).
We were enhancing community relations and caught the attention of the local police, who heard the noise and saw the smoke and promptly chased us down just knowing they had caught some heathens on unlicensed dirt bikes. Initially they weren't very friendly if memory serves but they let us go on to breakfast after we showed them our papers... Thank you so much Mark for all you do for all of us then and now. I wouldn't have the bikes I have if not for you.
The Phoenix Project in the 1st of many iterations made its'1st appearance at the Fall Gap Meet in 2004 and was welcomed warmly by all. The rest as they say is history.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sxBwXBJ7/20170922-113026-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hQB9Zt6t)
Yep, that's a great story all right. Can't imagine the initial feelings and emotions when the fire happened. What a great "community" build is your Phoenix machine. You've got some great friends.
Yes I do have some great friends.
I did not realize for what I was asking...that is an amazing, heart-wrenching and inspirational story, Tim. Thanks for sharing that; you have reinforced my faith in human nature. :bacon:
Re fuel starvation.
Took it out and flogged it pretty hard today and it runs much better.We are gonna call if fixed. Back up on the lift so I can pull the cracked headlight ears off and replace them and repaint the headlight bucket.
That's a heart-wrenching, gut-punch of a story with an awesome finish!
Wow that is some story. Hopefully bad luck only strikes once. That is a lot of stuff to lose.
What a cool triple. No need to change anything. It's a prized history document.