Hey all. :wave: I've pretty much given up working on other peoples bikes unless its interesting. One owner bike just over 5000mi which was parked in '91. It has some warts but is a really decent example. Gentleman is in his late 60's, he and the mrs want to get her in the breeze to put a few miles on for nostalgia sake before selling it. Not a build per se but its a fair trade to show pics in return for a little "tribal" knowledge. He is on a tight budget so I thought I would hop in to ask things which could alleviate me making "bad" purchase decision on repop items etc. I'm quite handy but haven't spun a wrench on an RD in a couple decades.
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You can imagine what this smells like hahaha. I believe he has a repop gas cap in his future but I'll throw it in a bucket of evaporust for a couple weeks and see what comes out. It was non ethanol fuel with stabil but he learned the hard way about walking by it for decades and ignoring it. Obviously there will be some rust but the significant portion of this is "scale" from the fuel and stabil evaporating....you can see where I poked it a little to root around. i've gotten pretty adept at cleaning these things and saving the paint over the years. Its just damn time consuming and not "fun" work
And then he gets lesson 2 in walking by for decades
At least he got the satisfaction of seeing the bastard dead :haw:
Little turd actually chewed one of the flow diverters off to make his corn trips up the snorkel easier. As these box parts are unobtanium and priced accordingly when found I think I will just cut the other one off so its "even" flow as in the grand scheme of things it likely doesnt matter. Or if I have time I may try to fab something to put it back.
Looks like he spit all the diverter/filter shavings through the cage.
So, my first question is regarding the intake manifolds. These are hard and cracked, not cracked through yet but won't be long. I see they are available repop but only find two choices for the oem carbs. One set has no stuffers and no vac ports. The other style has the stuffers but large ports/barbs for a crossover hose. Does anyone make a manifold for the Daytona type that has the small ports/barbs for the exhaust valve /check valve tubing?
Quote from: cygnus on April 29, 2019, 11:09:10 AM
So, my first question is regarding the intake manifolds. These are hard and cracked, not cracked through yet but won't be long. I see they are available repop but only find two choices for the oem carbs. One set has no stuffers and no vac ports. The other style has the stuffers but large ports/barbs for a crossover hose. Does anyone make a manifold for the Daytona type that has the small ports/barbs for the exhaust valve /check valve tubing?
Welcome. Nice looking bike!
Here's a method for returning rubber to pliable and soft again. This of course is for parts that aren't cracked. Before hunting around for parts and spending money on repop rubber bits I would first attempt to retore the original pieces.
I don't believe there are repro 2V0 manifolds available. Only the regular 1A1 RD400 type and the RZ/Banshee type.
Do you mean an intake boot that has the openings to use a crossover tube but does not have the protrusions on the back? If that's what you're asking then yes. I bought a set of UPP manifolds for a Banshee for my 400. Those did not have the extra plastic protrusions to cut off on the cylinder side.
You can get ones that have those protrusions, you just need to cut them off. I went with UPP because I was hoping they'd be more durable than the Yamaha ones I had. Those lasted me two seasons before cracking.
I believe he is referring to the 2V0 manifolds that are unique to the Daytona. They have metal inserts for connecting a rubber hose instead of the larger ports that are found on the RZ/Banshee manifolds.
Thanks guys. Yeah, those are the ones. I have rejuvenated manifolds before but since these are cracked I wanted to replace them if possible. The cracks aren't all the way through yet but I don't want to take a chance on a sudden air leak when they decide to. The exhaust valve system seems to function properly using a mity vac and I want to leave it as "original" as possible per his wishes.
Quote from: cygnus on April 29, 2019, 01:43:24 PM
I want to leave it as "original" as possible per his wishes.
Makes perfect sense. There aren't many original ones left.
There is a set of manifilds on Ebay right now. No telling if they are better than the ones you have now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Yamaha-RD400-Daytona-Special-RD-400-RD-400-RD400F-1887-REED-VALVE-INTAKES/233209670080 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Yamaha-RD400-Daytona-Special-RD-400-RD-400-RD400F-1887-REED-VALVE-INTAKES/233209670080)
Looks like a nice survivor. I have a bad feeling about the inside of that tank, you might need to replace it. Clean Daytona tanks are hard to find. There's one on CL in my area that looks decent. Let me know if you want the link. Let the fun begin! :celebrate:
Quote from: SoCal250 on April 29, 2019, 01:18:09 PM
Quote from: cygnus on April 29, 2019, 11:09:10 AM
So, my first question is regarding the intake manifolds. These are hard and cracked, not cracked through yet but won't be long. I see they are available repop but only find two choices for the oem carbs. One set has no stuffers and no vac ports. The other style has the stuffers but large ports/barbs for a crossover hose. Does anyone make a manifold for the Daytona type that has the small ports/barbs for the exhaust valve /check valve tubing?
Welcome. Nice looking bike!
Here's a method for returning rubber to pliable and soft again. This of course is for parts that aren't cracked. Before hunting around for parts and spending money on repop rubber bits I would first attempt to retore the original pieces.
I don't believe there are repro 2V0 manifolds available. Only the regular 1A1 RD400 type and the RZ/Banshee type.
Has anyone had success with this previously? I had hard manifolds on my RD200 and it did not do a thing to soften them. It was extremely hard to hunt down wintergreen oil and it was a total failure...
Quote from: SoCal250 on April 29, 2019, 01:30:33 PM
I believe he is referring to the 2V0 manifolds that are unique to the Daytona. They have metal inserts for connecting a rubber hose instead of the larger ports that are found on the RZ/Banshee manifolds.
It amazes me how much R&D Yamaha put into the Daytona only for it to be a one year model. But I digress...
Used black RTV massaged into the exterior of a CR250 intake manifold once. They were hard to replace at the time.
The key withthe Daytona is patience. I just finished restoring mine, took 3 years. I found a set of NOS intakes like you are looking for by searching ebay for 2VO vs 2V0.Get creative, XS400 of the same year shares some parts with the Daytona.
I'm a patient guy, when it's my project :haw: In this case I need to move it along but using the best practice I can with what's available in the time I have keeping his goal in mind.
Thanks for posting those used manifolds, one is cracked but the other may not be so I will ask him. I got these and the carbs off tonite and while both are stiff only one is cracked. I also dont like how the seal rings look but a skim of hylomar should seal. I would really like new ones but will have to make do. I to have done the rtv rub but won't since its not my bike. The hose barbs are threaded and just screwed into the manifold, but the repops dont have the flat surface to seal them into or I would just drill a set.
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On the good news front these items look good.
That is a clean pump! No mice there, Lol
if you have the means, get banshee ones and lathe down an adapter to fit in there threaded to 1/8" npt for the ports, or whatever the stock thread is on those.
if you look here.. while these are urethane styles, you get the idea. i had a plug in there to do some tuning. thats the way i would go, just using black oem banshee ones. (for a customers bike)
(http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/lightweight-rd/CARBS-STACKS_TESTFIT_1.jpg)
Excellent idea. I see this set at Economy which is more inline with his budget. I'm sure the quality isn't near what the Banshee set is but leaps and bounds better than old used I would imagine. The way these are made I could cut down the large brass barb near flush and fab a sleeve with a "crown" so they almost looked like the originals......may not even have to tell him hahaha.
https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/fuel-and-airintake/manifolds-yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/manifold-kit-with-cross-over/ (https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/fuel-and-airintake/manifolds-yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/manifold-kit-with-cross-over/)
Other than stuck slides the carbs came apart well. Looks like he had drained them. I'll have to take the Farmall linkage apart as its stiff as a board.
I owe some updates. I have been nibbling away at it, but, I work in the ag industry and the current grand solar minimum and associated interesting weather has made spring tillage/planting an exercise in craziness resulting in tons of overtime and odd hours. For the moment I will just show what i decided on the intake manifolds . I know it seems like a lot of time/trouble but he really wants to keep it functionally/aesthetically original as possible so that's what I'm trying to do for him.
I wasn't happy with any of the intakes commonly available for a variety of reasons. So I did some research into what the other countries models used that didnt have the exhaust valve. Basically the 400 E/F elsewhere seemed to share the manifold setup of the RD250/Rd350 LC models. Their manifolds looked to have the reed stuffers and a much smaller than the Banshee style crossover tube resulting in a much shorter/smaller boss on the manifold. I wanted to keep the height of the boss such the oem holder for the check valve would fit in the cylinder fins exactly where it is supposed to.
https://parts.fo/yamaha/motorcycle/1981-rd250lc_4l1_999-748dd11ca7-intake# (https://parts.fo/yamaha/motorcycle/1981-rd250lc_4l1_999-748dd11ca7-intake#)
I had a german friend with a 250LC measure manifolds from his spares and they were a spot on match to the Daytona manifolds. The part number for the manifolds is 2R9-13565-01-00, the wire clamps for the crossover are 90467-15012-00. So from the Eu I ordered a set of made in Japan Tourmax (good quality parts) CHY-47 reproductions made for the 4L1 models specifically.
I dont have access to a lathe at the moment so I contacted Jeff Derstine (JRD on the triples forums who provides some fine services/parts) and submitted some bad drawings for adapters to use the oem hose barbs and he turned these out for me. I then hand radiused them to match the inside of the manifold bore. So, not oem but they wont look too out of place and if an NOS set of manifolds pops up all will be same/same and they can be easily swapped in.
The pair of manifolds shipped from the EU was $80 so the same price as one oem which are still available. Its a viable option for anyone restoring one of these who wants to keep the exhaust valve for purposes of originality. You could also get the smaller crossover tube that matches these, 2R9-14465-00-00, if one wanted to experiment with tuning a standard 400.
I'll add my dimensions for the sleeves in case anyone wants to follow this path in the future. They fit perfect, you will just have to radius the inner extension to match the manifold bore.
In this case I'm not painting anything in keeping with survivor status. When I come across rust I just address it from getting worse. If he does sell it down the road the new owner may have their own ideas on a restoration or leaving a survivor. They are only original once. Really gritty greasy stuff I just toss in an ultrasonic with Dawn or Dawn Ultra. I also use Evaporust as it gives stuff a nice clean finish without any wire brush or scotchbrite scratches and doesn't remove any sacrificial coatings. On plastic or rubber I use 303 Aerospace. It really is a restorative and protective wonder. I spent 4 hours degreasing the old girl and getting all the mouse piss off before I began hahaha.
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I also replaced the seals on both airbox lids. I can confirm quantity one of 51Y-14462-00-00 is enough to do both, but, with only 12mm left over so dont make a mistake! Also, the Uni filter I purchased was too damn tall. I dont know if the top portion of this box is shorter for the 2V0 foam filter than the prior paper filter or what. I cut the cage down to fit perfect. No biggie but a pain in the ass.
All five seals leaking here and neutral switch broken on all 3 ears.
The kicker seal and clutch cover gasket were weeping as well. Plus the clutch seemed sticky and I wanted to r/r the oil pump shaft seal. So I went ahead and pulled the hub to make swapping the shift seal simple by removing the shift shaft. Very clean in the cases and everything looked good. Cleaned the plates/springs etc and soaked a day in fresh Maxima MTL.
In going thru wiring and connections I use deoxit D5 to clean/lube. Good stuff. I still have to repair the mouse damage but have everything I need. But, the fuse box saddened me. Main circuit had been hot and one ear was so weak from it that it had broken. Sad because this one still has a readable paper roadmap! NOS part is $158. I see Economy Cycle has a repop for $30. Has anyone used one of those and can comment on the terminal crimp quality etc ? Also, these brass terminals I cant find but the older style tinned terminals are readily available. I can fix this box if I can confirm the 1NL-W8215-00 terminals will fit the keepers in this box if anyone can comment
Before I pulled the pump I set it up on the bench to test. I ran a half pint of Marvel Mystery Oil thru first to clean it all out (smells minty fresh now!) then switched to Yamalube. Works fine throughout the range of rpm and bail adjustment. I have one question about the pump if you don't mind as I haven't had one in my hand for years. When I pulled it off the cover there was oil in the cavity where the worm and pinion gear run. Are the pinion and gear lubricated by oil from the pump or do you need to add oil in the cavity before you reattach to cover? The manual doesn't address it specifically.
Fairly certain the injector pump cavity is intended to be dry. I found rust & aluminum oxidation in one of mine from moisture intrusion/retention.
That Evapo-Rust stuff is an awesome product!
Quote from: cygnus on June 12, 2019, 12:41:48 PM
In going thru wiring and connections I use deoxit D5 to clean/lube. Good stuff. I still have to repair the mouse damage but have everything I need. But, the fuse box saddened me. Main circuit had been hot and one ear was so weak from it that it had broken. Sad because this one still has a readable paper roadmap! NOS part is $158. I see Economy Cycle has a repop for $30. Has anyone used one of those and can comment on the terminal crimp quality etc ? Also, these brass terminals I cant find but the older style tinned terminals are readily available. I can fix this box if I can confirm the 1NL-W8215-00 terminals will fit the keepers in this box if anyone can comment
I had purchased the fuse box from Economy and have had no issues. However, its not plug & play. I had to swap a couple of wires, I don't remember which two. Just follow your wiring diagram and you'll be fine. It may be plug & play for the earlier models, but not the Daytona. I guess that's what makes it "Special".
Wow, can't imagine that being run totally dry but you guys know more than me. I couldn't really identify the oil as it was 'aged".......it may have been from the cover shaft seal leaking. Where the pinion spins in the cover bushing, the spacer on the pump body end and the pinion on the sun gear i would think that stuff wouldn't last long dry. And yeah, I'm an Evaporust fan hahaha.
Thanks about the fusebox info. I would still like to repair this one, but, later on if you know what I mean. For that price, swapping wires is no issue.
Quote from: m in sc on April 30, 2019, 10:19:00 AM
lathe down an adapter to fit in there threaded to 1/8" npt for the ports, or whatever the stock thread is on those.
Forgot to say thanks for the adapter idea Mark ;D
Had to use the pencil torch to heat up the coagulated grease/crud around the clutch worm ball before I could clean it out haha. Threw the whole unit in the evaporust with the pump cable. I ordered the Economy Cycle fuse box. Before trying to repair the old one with the NOS Yami contacts I thought I better see how the rest of the originals were. I was snapping them off with my pinkie no effort. Plus, mouse piss had apparently run down the wire entrance and the wires reek.....Im done with that
Great job so far. Is that oil pump cable the original or a repop?
Looking good !
Wow a real Resto.
I did a few, worst a live mouse came out of the air box... My dog Bear loved it, after that he was right by my side working on bikes.
Can't share the quite pic of a white shiatsu[bear] under a r5 on the lift, Photobucket=ransomwear.
Glad to see you making progress, typical resto for me was 3-4 months, local painter...
Keep up dating
JT
Thanks! Yeah, dogs love mice more than cats. 4 or 5 months is about right for me with the time available.
It is the original pump cable. I think the repop items thus far are the stator wiring seal/conduit, inatke manifolds, the accordion seals on the throttle linkage tops, oil tank filler tube (but I may be able to salvage the old one yet), bowl drain screw gaskets and now the fusebox. Everything else I have been finding available from Yami.
Last few years I have been doing 80's sportbikes pretty much exclusively, sacrilege I know, diesels and all :haw:. My two favorites were the Hurrycane I built to run in the Canadian VRRA endurance class and an '86 Gsxr that was retrieved from the wreck of a 16th century spanish galleon hahahaha. Sound of that Gsxr on the pipe is enough to make you weep.
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Rained today so got off at noon. Only took a few pics. Put all new seals in clutch cover and sealed her back up then filled the tranny. Hopefuly no puddles in the morning. I had left the reeds in til now to keep bugs and crud out. Pulled all that and cleaned up everything before resealing. Dribbled some oil in while it was open then rotated her over after the intake was reinstalled. Reinstalled the exhaust valve. The butterfly cage was rusted but since I didnt pull it I used the old standby Naval jelly to clean it up.....slow but works ok. Pretty pleased with how the manifolds and plumbing turned out.
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Still nibbling away. Got the tire rubbed rear sub harness repaired and the mouse chewed wire repaired. I had bought a used XS400 sub harness cheap on ebay to get the correct colored wire. Got the funky pins for the 6 pin connector from Kojaycat in the UK. Carbs assembled and reinstalled.
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also felt spunky and buffed up the headpipes and top end a bit
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Make sure you jet up a little if your going to put in *91-93 pump gas and retard the timing a little if the bike is going to be ridden.
Or mix 50/50 with 110* race gas.
When the fuels changed in the late 80's and mid '90's for fuel injected cars, the Daytona models couldn't handle it well and all blew up.
Looking really good to see someone keep it all stock on a Daytona model.
I'm just an old hotrodder and want better performance and not have to worry about the lean burn setup and hurting it on modern pump gas.
So out with the stock pipes and carbs for me!! :vroom:
Chuck
As a true survivor and one owner he wants to keep it that way and I don't disagree in this case. Not as much "fun" in one sense but she should be pretty pleasing as is. :vroom: I'm just trying to help a guy out reviving his sleepy old gal to recapture a little youth and have some fun. He won't do any more than ride it to his local bike night / car show stuff and to Dairy Queen on Sunday. Honestly, he will probably putter around a bit on it and then sell it.
We have some local Phillips 66 clean 93 that works well in smokers but if it doesn't like that I'll find something canned at the local VP dealer that works for him. No more than he will run through it it wouldn't be a hassle. I had picked up some NOS points and plates and planned on asking what the timing gets set to for "safety" these days. The 400F supplement manual had 2.something as baseline but I was thinking I used to set mine at 1.9 for street riding back in the day but wisdom may have developed differently over time ;D
I told him up front I would go through it to help him out, but, any motor work or tuning carbs he would have to farm out. I have my own stuff I want to get to this year and his rabbit hole has a depth limit hahaha.
Std RD400's are 2.3mm BTDC factory spec.
The U.S. '79 2V0 was at 2.4mm BTDC factory spec.
Your on the right track with timing, up the pilot 1 size and the main one size, set timing to 1.9-1.8mm.
Chuck
10-4....thanks Chuck.
I tried everything I could think of to get the oil tank "white" again without using anything that might damage it. He will have to settle for nice shade of light blue. And why the mouse didnt eat that white vac port filter I dont know.....not even a chew mark. Oil tank is plumbed up and bled. The sender was nasty coagulated but tested good after cleaned.
The $30 repop fusebox quality far exceeds its cost. The crimps are awesome and it has good wire. Economy was out of stock when I ordered, I actually received a phone call from them to let me know and when I would get it which is awesome service! Used some Farmall cloth wire I had leftover from fixing a Super M generator harness and fabbed a ground wire to replace the mouse chewed one from the bike.
Deep breath then flip the key......no whiff of ozone. Everything works ! Wont be able to verify the self cancelling signals til its a rider.
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Dug through my tub of parts not used in eons looking for something else and saw this. Is this the correct Daiichi replacement condenser for the 400? Size difference in pics is an optical illusion....its a tad/slightly longer but the same in all dimensions
With 5600 miles, leave the original one on for now.
It is like all of the replacement ones I have used in the past.
Chuck
Thanks again, I'll leave the original Mitsubishi on for now and see how it works. I chased my tail with a randomly faulty condenser on my wife's KZ once and I tend to just put a new one on :haw: Dug out the dial indicator and timing goodies and put the NOS points in. Left one ended up at 1.83 on the first shot so I just set the right to match. Pulled the brushes to look/clean and clean the rings. Plenty of life left.
First I thought I would see what it was set at before I removed the old stuff. I hooked up to the left and couldnt get the light to come on. The right set would barely bring the light on dimly. Put the new ones on and all was fine. I know its been sitting 28 years but I dont know how it ran with these hahaha.
Those that make their own tools might like this. My "timing plank". I built this to time my Honda Z50 when I was nine. Some scrap aluminum and old screws, a broken board from the corn crib dump and the cap/lens from my boy scout flashlight. I've added new wire, clips and duct tape over the years but the base design is the same. The tech at the Honda shop showed me the Honda tool and since I couldnt afford one I went in true farmboy run what you got style hahaha. Guys look at me funny when I use it but I haven't ever had the heart or desire to replace it. First bike tool I made and all !
My least favorite thing to do
Don't think the same dude welded both hahaha......and I learned packing baffles will be the end of me and my bloodline :haw:
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Carbs are synched/sank/sunk (hard to get a pic the way the leds dance). Sounds good, its charging, all lights work, clutch feels good, no scary noises, no leaks as of yet. Just a "dash" of fuel in the left overflow tube once and the tach damping fluid is shot. Other than that I'll move on to the chassis/brakes and that nasty tank lurking in the corner
Dismantled the brakes to see what was lurking inside there. I will put up a few pics when I get a moment. Using 40 year old lines isn't something I consider so I'll have HEL make up a pair as I see no faithful reproductions. While nasty, both calipers are fine for a rebuild with good looking pistons and bores.
Sadly, both masters have pits in the bores and are scrap. Another expensive reminder of walking by your bike in the garage for 28 years thinking all was ok. Especially since both are more one limited production model/one year items. Only ones on ebay are scrap as well. UK RD250 used the same 14mm Asco but all those on Ebay UK are also suspect. Prior years RD400 Asco would "look" proper but going to 5/8" from 14mm would give an unacceptable ratio I think.....and all of those available are highly suspect which seems the norm for these. Most likely will just put on the 13mm Magura and he will have to live with the different levers as a reminder of motorcycle malfeasance ;D
The rear looks the same as prior RD400 except for the change from pressure switch to leverage switch so is a swap possibility, just have to make a jumper harness for the switch or plug the orifice (if its a standard pipe thread) and use the oem leverage switch. But, all those found have been sketchy at best as well. HVC has a nice magura refit kit but I'm not keen on bending the frame leverage switch ears to make it fit. But, that may be the best option. Can't be buying scrap parts again and again until I find ones with a good bore.
When I get a chance I will do a "want ad" hoping against hope a member has good spare spares that could be parted with.
Going to be a lucky owner. Well done and thanks for taking us along.
Quote from: cygnus on July 01, 2019, 12:35:41 PM
Dismantled the brakes to see what was lurking inside there. I will put up a few pics when I get a moment. Using 40 year old lines isn't something I consider so I'll have HEL make up a pair as I see no faithful reproductions. While nasty, both calipers are fine for a rebuild with good looking pistons and bores.
Sadly, both masters have pits in the bores and are scrap. Another expensive reminder of walking by your bike in the garage for 28 years thinking all was ok. Especially since both are more one limited production model/one year items. Only ones on ebay are scrap as well. UK RD250 used the same 14mm Asco but all those on Ebay UK are also suspect. Prior years RD400 Asco would "look" proper but going to 5/8" from 14mm would give an unacceptable ratio I think.....and all of those available are highly suspect which seems the norm for these. Most likely will just put on the 13mm Magura and he will have to live with the different levers as a reminder of motorcycle malfeasance ;D
The rear looks the same as prior RD400 except for the change from pressure switch to leverage switch so is a swap possibility, just have to make a jumper harness for the switch or plug the orifice (if its a standard pipe thread) and use the oem leverage switch. But, all those found have been sketchy at best as well. HVC has a nice magura refit kit but I'm not keen on bending the frame leverage switch ears to make it fit. But, that may be the best option. Can't be buying scrap parts again and again until I find ones with a good bore.
When I get a chance I will do a "want ad" hoping against hope a member has good spare spares that could be parted with.
I don't know of a proper solution for the rear other than adapting something.
5/8 won't hurt the rear much, just makes it less sensitive and more travel to hard brake. (set adjuster for zero slack)
Use 2014-2017 SR400 Yamaha master for the front, 14mm and has very close same lever and the stock brake switch will fit.
You also can use all the parts if your lever is still good.
Daytona lever, chrome lever bolt (SR is black) and nut, banjo bolt and washers, spring and switch all can be reused on the SR master. Will need the SR master, the clamp and the clamp bolts.
Chuck
Hard to find a rear master with the groovy 45mm spacing. They're out there, just hard to find.
If you NEED original: Bore it out to 15mm or (even better) bore it out to 9/16 and use car parts to rebuilt it.
Thanks guys! Like I said in the beginning, taking the time to "take you along" is fair payment for knowledge.
Brand new from the mothership Chuck's SR400 Nissin master is $69.... info like that is well worth the cost of admission! I forwarded the info to the owner with a pic of a junk ebay one for the same price as new :haw: to see if that would work for him. It works for me. I would just wait to have the line made until I had the master to verify if any change needed in the recipe since its a side banjo. Likely that fitting would need a slight angle rather than straight. Thanks!
edit.....I also have inquiries with three US based businesses as to cost of resleeving them which is common practice in the vintage auto/industrial world. White Post is the only one I have received a response from today at $225ea (if no custom seal fab required). Waiting on cost comparison with the other two but I may inquire in the UK as its more common there and may be much less.
Quote from: cygnus on July 01, 2019, 12:35:41 PM
Dismantled the brakes to see what was lurking inside there. I will put up a few pics when I get a moment. Using 40 year old lines isn't something I consider so I'll have HEL make up a pair as I see no faithful reproductions. While nasty, both calipers are fine for a rebuild with good looking pistons and bores.
Sadly, both masters have pits in the bores and are scrap. Another expensive reminder of walking by your bike in the garage for 28 years thinking all was ok. Especially since both are more one limited production model/one year items. Only ones on ebay are scrap as well. UK RD250 used the same 14mm Asco but all those on Ebay UK are also suspect. Prior years RD400 Asco would "look" proper but going to 5/8" from 14mm would give an unacceptable ratio I think.....and all of those available are highly suspect which seems the norm for these. Most likely will just put on the 13mm Magura and he will have to live with the different levers as a reminder of motorcycle malfeasance ;D
The rear looks the same as prior RD400 except for the change from pressure switch to leverage switch so is a swap possibility, just have to make a jumper harness for the switch or plug the orifice (if its a standard pipe thread) and use the oem leverage switch. But, all those found have been sketchy at best as well. HVC has a nice magura refit kit but I'm not keen on bending the frame leverage switch ears to make it fit. But, that may be the best option. Can't be buying scrap parts again and again until I find ones with a good bore.
When I get a chance I will do a "want ad" hoping against hope a member has good spare spares that could be parted with.
If you decide to find a stock master (front) and rebuild, you can get a reservoir kit from Yambits.
Mine's been on for over a year now and works great... No leaks. :twocents:
https://yambits.co.uk/rd400f-daytona-usa-brake-master-cylinder-reservoir-kit-front-p-79583.html
Actually, the reservoir/cap/ bar clamp are the only salvageable parts hahaha
Need to get caught up. I apologize for breaking pics up like I have been....not padding post count. The forum software is pretty adamant about size.
Among other things the caliper bits spent the day in the ultrasonic and cleaned up nice. Perfectly useable. Bores are sweet. The seal grooves needed some detailed polishing but with good oem seals I expect no troubles. Paint was lost where sand under the boots held moisture and corroded but its all patina.
Rear
front
rear
front
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pistons were good after a buff
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Last of the original pile rejuvenated before starting a new one. First time I ever rebuilt switchgear that didnt require chasing ball bearings and springs hahaha
Today I took the tank off the shelf and put a couple coats of wax on the paint. I took it out to the farm and did the initial drain (guessing a couple gallons left in it) in the corner of the cornfield so as not to stink up any place important. Half hour to get the petcock screws out with vice grips and the petcock looked like it was sealed with tar. 40 minutes to drain it through the petcock orifice which was plugged with something and I wasnt about to touch that nasty crap. Little over an hour to open up the two small 90 degree crossover barbs without poking a hole through them. Empty I was thinking the tank weighed a ton. Flushed a little fuel through and that didnt help anything. Headed to the car wash (small wand.....the one at work is industrial). $10 bucks worth of quarters later this started coming out. Most went down the drain but there was at least the equivalent of that pile 5 times over. I have never seen that shit before hahaha. Dried it is the equivalent of roofing tar. The top/roof of the tank has the most significant rust and a lot of flakes came out. I flushed it tons more at home since the stink was gone mostly and got a lot more smaller pieces out. Hard to get a pic but there is still a lot of that tar in there. Its soaking in Simple Green (only thing I had in quantity) and hot water. Ill get some of the toxic degreaser from work. He will have bought the car wash before I'm through. I have no doubt this tank will be good to go. That tar had sealed it up pretty well. Only rust to speak of is where it wasnt.
Time to catch up a little. First, the tank is coming clean.....its just on its own time frame. Basically just working up the scale from using least toxic to what it takes.Four days soaking with 1>1 Simple Green and a couple trips to the car wash cut some out but too slow. Dollar General sells a cleaner called LA's Totally Awesome that is good stuff and cheap. Two days soaking in that a little stronger than 1>1 and another car wash trip really cut some of the varnish out. So I got some fresh Awesome and soaked a couple more days. It cut a little more but pretty much what it could do was done in the first shot.
So, next I bought the guy that runs the steamer at work a case of beer :dawg: After Saturday before last he helped me make a wand out of parts from three that would somewhat fit in the filler and we steamed it. I didn't really want to do that because it can play hell with paint but being careful no damage was done. That took all the big chunks of tar out. All that was left mainly was the varnish "base. There were a few spots of black left where the water jet couldn't get a good cut because of angles in the tank.
So next I dumped in a half gallon of denatured alcohol and a pint of acetone. I've been rolling it since saturday night before last. Its 85>90% varnish free now. Mainly just the stuff stuck in the seams left to break down. I could have filled it up but more chance of a boo boo that way.
Pics, 1 simple green after four nights....2 Awesome after two nights.....3 awesome after 2 nights
pics from my tinycam after steaming
what she is getting too in her own sweet time......havent messed up the paint yet knock on wood
Pulled the ass end off for cleaning and inspection. The battery acid damage rust was more than I could bear even though I told him I wasn't refinishing anything. The paint was just falling off the shock springs with soap and water as well.
and the rotor looked like shit......so I beadblasted all of it and headed over to my friends place with the home powdercoat rig. Used Sherman Williams gloss on everything but the rotor which i used VHT caliper paint and baked it.
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I got nearly all the acid blotches off the rear wheel. Took my time as I didn't want to be repainting that hahaha. And a million other little things not to bore you with.
Oh, if you redo many twinshock/koni style vintage shocks this is the style tool I would suggest. It does not damage the oem paint or your new powder/paint at all if you cured properly and it isn't expensive :twocents:
Clocks are back from having the pine tar damping fluid renewed so the cluster is done and shocks are back together. Going to have my buddy who owns a graphics shop repop the KYB decals since they came out so nice.
It's looking really nice! You have been giving me lot's of flashbacks. :cheers:
there is going to be one very happy Daytona owner shortly.
great work.
Thanks! Wish I was the happy owner :vroom: Buffed her hind end up before reinstalling the swinger. Mount the rear tire tomorrow so cleaned all the wheel bits. Then we will spin her around on the lift.
Rear all done but the brakes.....other than waiting on the tank I feel on the downhill side
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It's nice when they start looking like a motorcycle again :vroom:
Been chipping away. Steering head bearings were bad at 5000 miles from being overtightened. Fork internals looked like new. These pipes are fantastic. 99.9% of the acid stain was on the backside of the right on the rough "barely" chromed part.....that never happens. I'll tell the tank story in a few days. The rh headlight ear was bent so nabbed a super reasonable NOS piece. Bead blasted the old varnish and corrosion off the fork lowers, then gave a rubbed finish and hand wiped a coat of Nyalic on them. I had originally put the battery box back in rusty when this was a "simple" project. After powdercoating the other stuff I pulled it back out and refinished it, tossed the wet battery and got an AGM.....after all this I couldn't sleep thinking it would happen again. :dawg: Then I had to get the repop KYB decals because hahaha. I fell behind timewise updating sdetails o I'll just toss up some pics.
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Wow! It's coming together. Glad you have us along for the ride. :cheerleader:
Thanks! I'll ride it yet this year. I've got to start prepping a bike for my fall vacation trip and that will take priority till ready :vroom: So back there somewhere beginning of July are the pics of the tank, what came out of it and what was in it. I feel like Job from the old testament :haw: I had started with Simple Green which cut a bit of it, then Dollar General's Totally Awesome cleaner which cut a bunch more. Then I went to denatured alcohol with a splash of acetone and rolled that for a couple weeks and then it would do no more.
As I'm trying to save the paint its been a class in patience draining/rinsing/rattling screws/refilling what seems like a thousand times. Last couple weeks I have had it filled with Zep purple and gave it an every other day rattling of the screws and the lye in the Zep was bringing it forth every time.
Last friday I put the tank in my retired sleeping bag and put it in the dryer packed with my winter Carhart work clothes and gave it four hours of tumble. Took it back to work Saturday and steamed it once more. My tiny cam showed all the "tar" was gone and it looked like I was down to the rust. So it was filled with evaporust until tonite. Then I rinsed it with near boiling water and Marine Clean. She's ready to coat with the Caswell after drying a few days. :clap:
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Much better to smell Carnuba than acetone and lye. Have the grab strap off the seat to see how I might be able to fix some unraveling from an errant bungie cord I would guess.
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Front brakes on and bled. Solid feel on the lift. Finished up a bunch of loose ends / little things. Tomorrow hope to coat the tank. If the rear master gets back from the sleeve shop this week I'll be ready to ride her next weekend.
Optimal conditions today for 2 part epoxy, 73 degrees and 62% humidity. Still added a tbsp of xylene to give me more working time. Zero paint lost on the bottom after all that toxicity trying to clean it. Now just need to work on the finish I gave a beating.
Tank is cured so placed all that back together. Swapped the lock cylinder into the NOS gas cap. The sleeved rear master shipped back to me today. Almost !
Top notch work! People pay good money for those Daytonas. Especially ones that clean and that original. You're going to have a happy customer.
Thanks! I do my best. Got the resleeved master back. Works like a champ. This is my first experience with him but I can't say enough good things about Jeff. A true craftsman and nice guy. $85 plus shipping is all. Send him your stuff instead of tossing. I suggest you call instead of email....ma and pa shop and he is working :patriot: FYI, it has to be powdercoated before he sleeves....or if you paint and bake that is first also. It can't be heated to temp after the sleeving process. I think $35 is what he charges if his guy blasts and powdercoats it.
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So today was 77 degrees and sunny. Perfect for the shakedown. Put 80 miles on her.....blacktop, township roads and an interstate blast. I've never ridden a Daytona before. What a sweetheart!......this thing is awesome. My son rode behind on the Bush Ninja in case I had trouble. He had never ridden a street 2 stroke before so I let him have a go. I said "well"....he said "Wow, I really don't know what to say except I need three of these hahahaha.
Only one issue and a pain in the ass removing these carbs. I filled the tank last night and left the petcock on overnight to check for any leaks with full "head" pressure. All good. While riding the left carb is pissing out the overflow a bit, enough to wet the cases under the hose. I set them at the manual spec of 21mm static but could find nothing around my shop to make/use for a fluid level check. Rookie mistake not waiting and doing it right.
I'm thinking/hoping the level is right at the top of the overflow brass and the vibes when running are spilling it over as its fine when parked. +/- 1mm the book says so I can lighten it a bit and hopefully cures it. Its not running like a river by any means but I can't send it home unless its all dry. I have seen the brass cracked before but as this is only when running that shouldn't be an issue.
But, there could be much worse issues so all in all I'm happy. Did I say this thing is a blast to ride? So I'll toss up some pics.....sorry about breaking them up but size matters to the forum software.
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A happy ending :clap:
Heh, not quite. This fuel pissing out the overflows while running has me stumped/disheartened.
Pulled them and checked my work and they were at exactly 21mm. The supplement manual +/- is 1mm so I set them at 22mm to see what would happen. No change. Pulled them again and did 22.25mm as I don't want to stray to far from the spec. Rechecked floats for straight/square and floated them again in fuel and no issues. Pins are smooth and no hangups. The needles/seats are new oem from Yami. Vents are clear and the carbs are as spotless as I can make them. It runs very well.
It will sit forever with fuel on and never a weep a drop. Only when running and as soon as you start it the weeping begins. Its almost like when running the bowls are pressurized and sending the fuel out the inner brass tube, but, the carbs really vibrate on this thing as well. I initially thought the level was just high enough it was vibrating over. But watching the process it almost seems like it is being pushed out but watching a vibrating tube full of liquid one could assume many things hahaha.
Maybe it did it before, hard to say as the bike was such a greasy mess everywhere. The new needles/seats are working as I would expect as it doesn't overflow while sitting. Maybe both floats have expired and show no outward sign?.....seems doubtful but not impossible but I have never had bad floats that weren't just "bad". Hell, maybe the manual is wrong. I'm stumped
Does you fuel tap have a ON/OFF/RESERVE, or a ON/RESERVE/PRIME...?
If it leaks when running, and you have a vacuum line for the fuel tap....the tap only flows when engine is running,
Have you put it on prime, with engine off?
I haven't read too far into your issue, but my RZV had a somewhat similar issue, which turned out to be rust I never saw in the tank....causing various issues.
Check at base of tube for overflow in bowl may be cracked only enough to leak while vibrating.
Looks like the Muffler Man is now selling hot dogs?
Quote from: pdxjim on October 01, 2019, 10:40:52 PM
Looks like the Muffler Man is now selling hot dogs?
hahaha. It is indeed a genuine Rt 66 "muffler man" statue. It was originally in Cicero at Bunyon's hot dogs but was moved to the current location farther down 66 a few years ago.
Bike is back home with the owner. It was a pretty emotional thing for him and the mrs.......sometimes they aren't just bikes to people. I polished the new needles/seats and ended up with the float level .5mm higher than the 21mm spec. I used a fuel level gauge Z1 Enterprises sells for the KZ's as the threads are the same in the drain on a 400 to verify service levels and see what was going on for sure. I installed a "sealed" container on the tubes and rode it 50 miles, there was almost nothing. As gas is, it was deceiving how much was actually present. So I just extended the hoses down to the battery vent hose "loop" and sent her home. I will revisit later if he desires but for now he just wants to look at it and smoke around town a little to the bike nights.
The internal tubes showed no cracks under magnification, and pressurizing them while the bowl was full "on the bench" showed no bubbles. That doesn't rule out vibration as a culprit. If I come across another set of 2V0 bowls I might grab them to just see ;D
Quote from: cygnus on October 03, 2019, 03:55:49 PM
Quote from: pdxjim on October 01, 2019, 10:40:52 PM
Looks like the Muffler Man is now selling hot dogs?
hahaha. It is indeed a genuine Rt 66 "muffler man" statue. It was originally in Cicero at Bunyon's hot dogs but was moved to the current location farther down 66 a few years ago.
Those Muffler Man statues were all over, not just on Rt. 66. There was one where I grew up, in Mountain View, CA, And another one nearby in San Jose.