2 STROKE WORLD .net

The 2-Stroke Garage => Turning Wrenches => Topic started by: Joshua on March 13, 2022, 08:04:06 PM

Title: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on March 13, 2022, 08:04:06 PM
I had a reputable guy build my motor a while ago. Finally got it legal and took it for a longer ride and when I got back home I noticed some top end knocking. I maybe have 3-4 tanks of gas run through it, so not that many miles on the bike yet. I did have the timing slip, so I reset the timing on it.  Just looking for feedback on where to start. It's super disappointing as I haven't even got to enjoy the bike and I'm afraid I'm already troubleshooting problems. My builder has not gotten back to me, so I think he may be MIA. Thanks for any feedback you guys could give me.


https://youtube.com/shorts/APU7rufTpWY?feature=share (https://youtube.com/shorts/APU7rufTpWY?feature=share)


Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Arrow on March 13, 2022, 08:13:03 PM
What ratio premix are you using?

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Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on March 13, 2022, 08:35:18 PM
16oz to 5 gallons of gas, 40:1.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Arrow on March 13, 2022, 08:44:40 PM
Ok. That should be alright as long as there is very little full throttle use. The pump kicks out about 20:1 after the 3/4 throttle position.

Sounds like a partial seizure to me. Could have been an air leak too...

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Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: rodneya on March 14, 2022, 10:55:10 AM
If you are sure the noise is from the top end, I would do a leakdown test first to check for leaks. Check what the plugs look like and then pull the head and take a look inside.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: m in sc on March 14, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
almost sounds like a small end bearing, but could be a partially collapsed skirt.. id pull the cyls & see whats up.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: quocle603 on March 14, 2022, 11:07:05 AM
Clean build. I would inspect everything. When he built your engine, was it both the top and bottom end? What did he replace?
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on March 14, 2022, 05:18:45 PM
Thanks guys. You all know my builder, just don't want to throw him under the bus for something that happens on a crappy day. He built it from the ground up so every piece was touched, replaced, ported, upgraded, new. I know he has been MIA, but he typically would get back to me if I called or texted him, hoping he is alright.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: soonerbillz on March 14, 2022, 07:07:23 PM
Make sure you check squish clearance. Could be as simple as a wrong thickness head gasket.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Washerman on March 14, 2022, 07:59:56 PM
Piston slap maybe pull the pipes and take a quick look inside there.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: 1976RD400C on March 15, 2022, 07:14:39 AM
Agree with the others and lift the cylinders off, then post some pictures if you need help figuring out what's up.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Striker1423 on March 15, 2022, 08:25:28 AM
Sounds like what mine did when it ran on little oil. Pull heads and look.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on March 15, 2022, 12:03:56 PM
Thanks all. I'll pull them in the next few weeks and update. Appreciate this community, wouldn't have gotten the bike done without everyone here.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: pidjones on March 15, 2022, 01:15:00 PM
Wow. Riding season starting up in Florida. Just use a large portion of patience and get it right before setting yourself back for the summer.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: rodneya on March 15, 2022, 02:20:51 PM
Quote from: Joshua on March 15, 2022, 12:03:56 PM
Thanks all. I'll pull them in the next few weeks and update. Appreciate this community, wouldn't have gotten the bike done without everyone here.

Wow, you have a lot of patience. I would have had my motor apart within minutes of getting it home. I would just have to know what went wrong or it would bug the s**t outa me.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: m in sc on March 15, 2022, 02:28:15 PM
this.

whos almost burned their hand on a piston pulling it out....   :whistle:  :patriot:
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: 2t Fan on March 15, 2022, 03:44:03 PM
Quote from: Joshua on March 13, 2022, 08:35:18 PM
16oz to 5 gallons of gas, 40:1.
35ml of 2T per 1000ml of gas is fine for a lightly ported RD ?  :umm:
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: rodneya on March 15, 2022, 04:08:43 PM
Quote from: m in sc on March 15, 2022, 02:28:15 PM
this.

whos almost burned their hand on a piston pulling it out....   :whistle:  :patriot:

Definitely been burned by exhaust and sparkplugs more than once.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: m in sc on March 15, 2022, 04:33:38 PM
Quote from: 2t Fan on March 15, 2022, 03:44:03 PM
Quote from: Joshua on March 13, 2022, 08:35:18 PM
16oz to 5 gallons of gas, 40:1.
35ml of 2T per 1000ml of gas is fine for a lightly ported RD ?  :umm:

yes, typically its fine. it wont cause a seizure, that's for sure. I used to run my high strung yz on that ratio no issues. 
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on March 16, 2022, 05:01:25 PM
Thanks all . . . Yes, I'm patient or made to be patient.  It took me almost 5 years to complete this project. . .lol.  Actually, I just sold my warehouse and changed careers.  This past year has been a year of simplifying, sadly selling off way too much I just don't have room to store anymore.  Next project I picked up is an RZ350 I'm dying to get to. . . . and it's sitting there staring at me . . .

Either way, I'll keep you guys updated, should have it apart in a week or two.

Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Hawaii-Mike on March 16, 2022, 09:19:31 PM
Nice looking bike, fenders might come in handy when it rains.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on April 10, 2022, 03:54:39 PM
Welp, here is my stupidity. Now that I've had some time to think, I believe when I lost my timing, I heated up the right cylinder, which may have caused some damage that I didn't catch. Then on my longer ride I did the rest. Great learning experience, sucks for me. Lol.

Couple questions so I'm not spinning my wheels here.

1– will I need piston, rings, rebore/hone. Is there anything else.
2– who can I send the work to?  I'm in florida, so I guess shipping would be fine.
3– is there anything I should be concerned with other than the obvious.

Thanks for all the encouragement here. Many times my first time through things I overthink and it freezes me to not just jump in and get it done. I'm learning . . .
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: rodneya on April 10, 2022, 05:29:49 PM
That doesn't look bad at all. You should be able to clean the cylinder up with muratic acid and then just a new piston.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: 1976RD400C on April 11, 2022, 06:59:04 AM
Could you post more pics of both pistons and what do you mean by it lost timing?
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on April 11, 2022, 07:31:19 AM
I've got the vape ignition, flywheel slipped.

I have to pull the pistons off. Really just looks like one cylinder is down but I feel I should just replace both. I'm nervous when my timing slipped it caused some weakness in rings/pistons.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Striker1423 on April 11, 2022, 08:02:22 AM
if timing slips on the vape setup, it would normally retard the timing. As the flywheel would slip backwards after firing the cylinder.

One thing to note when installing the vape. Heat the center taper of the vape flywheel with a heat-gun for like 60 seconds or so and then install it as quickly as you can. Give it a tappy-tap-tap with a plastic mallet and then install the bolt with extra thick washer from economy cycle. The taper is what sets the flywheel, but the extra few ft-lb's clamping down on it never hurts.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on April 11, 2022, 04:51:09 PM
I did this when I set the timing, I also lapped it before I reinstalled it. . . .
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: m in sc on April 11, 2022, 05:35:31 PM
do not lap it. theres a 1/2 degree difference which is what gives the interference.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Economy Cycle John on April 11, 2022, 08:01:34 PM
Make sure that longer bolt isn't bottoming out (it's been reported a few times), Add washers if it does. 18-20 ft/lbs of torque on the bolt.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Joshua on April 11, 2022, 09:50:58 PM
Got it, Chuck got back to me, so I'm in good hands. I sent him some detailed pics and he  suggested sending him the barrels, then once I get things broken in again I'll go and hang out and double check everything on the bike. Every time I go up there he is a wealth of knowledge. May even have some parts he needs from my left over pieces to keep one of you guys on the road. Things are working out. Just have to be patient I guess. Lol.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Daytona1 on April 11, 2022, 11:35:36 PM
Very cool!  We all miss him being here.
As we all know life can get in the way. Soon to spend some money on the Daytona and hoping I can get him involved.
Title: Re: Top end knock
Post by: Alain2 on April 12, 2022, 07:13:38 AM
Looking at the amount of blow by, that piston looks like it went thru 100 fuel tanks.

Did you tune the bike yourself?