2 STROKE WORLD .net

The 2-Stroke Garage => Turning Wrenches => Topic started by: m in sc on July 22, 2020, 05:27:10 PM

Title: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 22, 2020, 05:27:10 PM
So,

I have 2 rds running single yamaha calipers, one blue dot, one gold dot. In the quest to find that good lever feel, ive tried a bunch of different units, 12mm, 13mm , 10mm, 11mm.

from what -I- have found, the 11mm master from either a KX85 or YZ85 (nissin) seems to be the -perfect- ratio for these setups with a stainless line and a big rotor. only downside is slightly shorter lever (which i actually like) and no brake switch.

However,

you can get a banjo bolt brake switch. this takes place of the bolt, has 2 wires, and bam. done.

I used a grom master for a while, and while good, was a bit wooden for my tastes, as was the KTM390 duke one.

Just passing along some info. hope this helps somebody. I have found them for 130 ish, i think the KX ones.

Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: oxford on July 22, 2020, 06:18:18 PM
For reference, do you know what size the Grom and Duke masters were?
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Evans Ward on July 22, 2020, 06:42:06 PM
Years back after a lot of research on blue vs gold dot calipers, I found the difference was that the gold dot has aluminum pistons internally vs steel ones in the blue dot ones.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on July 22, 2020, 08:13:16 PM
Frank B did the research when we did our conversions and found out that a Yamaha Zuma Scooter has an 11 MM Master Cylinder. I bought one used on flea bay for $30 shipped if memory serves. It comes with a brake light switch and bolts right on. They work perfectly for this application.

url=https://postimg.cc/WFFRBByw](https://i.postimg.cc/9M1W7VtK/20190331-145247.jpg)[/url]
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 22, 2020, 11:35:31 PM
pretty sure the grom and ktm ones are 12. not sure.

good note on the zuma one timmy, you told me that, i completely forgot that.  :patriot: :cheerleader:
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on July 23, 2020, 12:52:57 AM
 :patriot:
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: retaRD on July 23, 2020, 10:21:04 PM
I'm running a single silver dot with a Duc 320mm rotor, braided line, and a Yamaha warrior master (four wheeler).
I haven't felt better brakes on another single rotor bike.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: SUPERTUNE on July 24, 2020, 11:48:07 PM
I like the Ducati 320mm with bluedot 4 pot R6 caliper and the XS400 14mm master.
Just did a this setup on Paul's STG 2 '76 RD400
Chuck

(https://photos.imageevent.com/supertune/paulsrd400/large/20200503_173507.jpg)

(https://photos.imageevent.com/supertune/paulsrd400/large/20200504_143152.jpg)
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on July 25, 2020, 11:11:58 AM
I am surprised you can use a 14MM master cylinder with a single caliper. Mine was very wooden feeling with a 14 and marginal at 12. That's why I went on the hunt for an 11MM. That being said if it works that's good.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: pdxjim on July 25, 2020, 02:48:46 PM
I'm running a 12mm EX300 master with blue spot caliper and 320mm disc on my TDR.

Feels great and night n' day difference to the stock setup.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 25, 2020, 02:58:05 PM
i was pretty ok with a 12, like the 11 more, just my .02 preference.  fzr rotor though.

Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on July 25, 2020, 08:22:28 PM
FZR rotor for Frank and me too.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Organicjedi on July 26, 2020, 11:47:16 AM
Quote from: Kawtriplefreak on July 25, 2020, 11:11:58 AM
I am surprised you can use a 14MM master cylinder with a single caliper. Mine was very wooden feeling with a 14 and marginal at 12. That's why I went on the hunt for an 11MM. That being said if it works that's good.

The stock MC on a US spec RD is over 15mm (5/8) with the single stock caliper. Wooden? A bit. 14mm would be an improvement. Not enough for me to change it though. I would if I ever had to replace it for some reason.

I'm sure the feel would be a lot worse with a blue dot and the MC would have to be changed. Glad all you guys have done the experimenting already.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 26, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
actually a lot of people prefer a 13 on a stock rd caliper. I tried it didn't like it, prefer a 14. have a 12 on the rear on on the lc, gives really good feel with a much shorter brake lever.

:twocents:
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Dvsrd on July 26, 2020, 05:02:18 PM
Quote from: Kawtriplefreak on July 25, 2020, 11:11:58 AM
I am surprised you can use a 14MM master cylinder with a single caliper. Mine was very wooden feeling with a 14 and marginal at 12. That's why I went on the hunt for an 11MM. That being said if it works that's good.
FWIW, the Yamaha "...dot" calipers have a bit snakker pistons than the equally available Brembo 4 piston calipers (34/34), so work better with a small MC. Stock RD calipers, as well as Brembo work great with a 13 mm MC
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: sav0r on July 26, 2020, 05:57:49 PM
What's the difference between a silver FZR caliper and a blue dot? I'm running a 13mm master from a quad or something, I got it for like $15 used. Asides from needing pads, the setup with the stock fzr (silver) caliper it works very well. I'm also running an off brand aluminum center wave style disc that I bought used on eBay. It looks great and works fine for the street. Loads of stopping power and very light.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 26, 2020, 06:41:51 PM
i had good luck the silver fzr caliper and 13mm master a swell, id imagine piston area. ?
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: retaRD on July 27, 2020, 11:40:58 AM
I've referred to this site for years.

http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm (http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm)

(http://www.vintagebrake.com/images/mastercylinder.gif)
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 27, 2020, 01:15:03 PM
well the total piston area is right at 2558.84 for the gold or blue dot calipers. (each caliper) they are 27mm and 30mm, 2 of each in each single caliper.

  actual ratio is 26.926 which 27, I believe, is considered ideal. (2558.84/95.03 )






Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: bitzz on July 27, 2020, 02:21:12 PM
Quote from: m in sc on July 27, 2020, 01:15:03 PM
well the total piston area is right at 2558.84 for the gold or blue dot calipers. (each caliper) they are 27mm and 30mm, 2 of each in each single caliper.

  actual ratio is 26.926 which 27, I believe, is considered ideal. (2558.84/95.03 )

27 may theoretically ideal, but there is some preference in there too.
If the "ideal" on the chart is 27, I have found I prefer a little less, maybe 25.
My rider prefers MORE, so he may get 28.

Radial masters are where it's at.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: m in sc on July 27, 2020, 02:35:36 PM
of course. they don't take into account lever geometry either, that makes a huge difference. But, generally speaking as a rule of thumb, thats the target then adjust for feel.
Title: Re: general babbling about master cyl and the single blue or gold dot caliper
Post by: Organicjedi on July 29, 2020, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: m in sc on July 26, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
actually a lot of people prefer a 13 on a stock rd caliper. I tried it didn't like it, prefer a 14. have a 12 on the rear on on the lc, gives really good feel with a much shorter brake lever.

:twocents:

I agree, 13mm would feel too light and squishy for me. I like a little more feedback with the controls.

I noticed the rear brake on my 400 isn't as positive feeling with the rear sets. It feels mushy. Not bad enough to change anything, but I thought it odd as my assumption was that it would feel stiffer with the shorter lever.