2 STROKE WORLD .net

The 2-Stroke Garage => Turning Wrenches => Topic started by: Robert58 on April 15, 2019, 01:00:55 PM

Title: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: Robert58 on April 15, 2019, 01:00:55 PM
 I ran Yamalube R for about 1000 miles on new ProX pistons and rings. I and found about 0.001 wear on pistons and ring end was huge gap . I called Yamaha and they say only to use Yamalube R for premix and run Yamalube S for injection. I just had cylinders honed and installing new pistons and rings did leak down test held 6 psig for over 1/2 hour.  Any suggestions on oil  choice would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: m in sc on April 15, 2019, 01:08:43 PM
i assume you are running the injector?

personally, i use castrol 'go' (used to be the snowmobile oil). But everybody has reccomendations and preferences. hard to find a modern oil that isnt good as long as its compatible with injector systems.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: Robert58 on April 15, 2019, 08:03:01 PM
Yes, I'm running pump
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: SUPERTUNE on April 15, 2019, 10:31:16 PM
Could be your machinist didn't bore your cylinders to correct size.
When boring RD cylinders for size, you have to buff off the breakin coating Pro-X puts on the pistons with scotchbrite pad on the piston at the measurement location.
If you measure your piston on the coating you will bore the cylinders too big and cause wear because the cleances will be too big when the coating wears off.
I do use Quicksilver outboard oil synthetic blend on my RD's I build to set up on stock oil pump injection systems.
I'll post some pics...
Chuck
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: SUPERTUNE on April 15, 2019, 10:35:20 PM
Buff the pistons like this before measuring...
(https://photos.imageevent.com/supertune/daverd400/large/20180116_185828.jpg)

(https://photos.imageevent.com/supertune/daverd400/large/20180116_185850.jpg)

Set to .002 for streetbikes and .0025 for super hot street and roadrace engines.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: SUPERTUNE on April 15, 2019, 10:40:28 PM
(https://photos.imageevent.com/supertune/daverd400/large/20180116_215214_2.jpg)

(https://photos.imageevent.com/supertune/daverd400/large/20180116_215154_2.jpg)

Another tip on Pro-X pistons kits is throw the 2nd ring wavy expander in the trash, don't use it!
I set the oil pump shimming to .010-.011 as well up from stock at .008.
Chuck
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: retaRD on April 16, 2019, 01:36:54 AM
Quote from: SUPERTUNE on April 15, 2019, 10:40:28 PM
I set the oil pump shimming to .010-.011 as well up from stock at .008.
Chuck

I do this as well.

As far as injector oil, personally I run Motul 710.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: Robert58 on April 16, 2019, 03:15:11 PM
Damn, I did a lot of research on pistons and clearances when I ordered the ProX pistons  . I did not read about removing the protective surface to take measurements. I also had called ProX about ring expanders and they say to use them and stock pistons have them. I did not run them on the old pistons, Chuck,  what happens if they are used?
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: SoCal250 on April 16, 2019, 04:42:39 PM
Quote from: m in sc on April 15, 2019, 01:08:43 PM
...everybody has reccomendations and preferences. hard to find a modern oil that isnt good as long as its compatible with injector systems.  :twocents:

Very true

Quote from: retaRD on April 16, 2019, 01:36:54 AM
As far as injector oil, personally I run Motul 710.

+1   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: pdxjim on April 16, 2019, 07:40:37 PM
Quote from: SoCal250 on April 16, 2019, 04:42:39 PM
Quote from: m in sc on April 15, 2019, 01:08:43 PM
...everybody has reccomendations and preferences. hard to find a modern oil that isnt good as long as its compatible with injector systems.  :twocents:

Very true

Quote from: retaRD on April 16, 2019, 01:36:54 AM
As far as injector oil, personally I run Motul 710.

+1   :thumbs:

+2    :twocents:

... but currently running BRP XPS2 in everything coz it's cheaper and there's a Skidoo dealership down the street from my house.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: SUPERTUNE on April 16, 2019, 10:29:27 PM
Quote from: Robert58 on April 16, 2019, 03:15:11 PM
Damn, I did a lot of research on pistons and clearances when I ordered the ProX pistons  . I did not read about removing the protective surface to take measurements. I also had called ProX about ring expanders and they say to use them and stock pistons have them. I did not run them on the old pistons, Chuck,  what happens if they are used?
They are always broken when I take them out after 1500 miles, so I quit using them not long after using the RZ/Banshee Pro-x pistons in RD and RZ's
A lot of scratchy looking bores are sometimes from not proper cleaning after boring and honing process which is a very dirty and gritty operation.
  I do a very special cleaning before re-assembling engines.
Washing cylinders in hot soapy water with powdered Tide, then rinse with water, use WD40 right away before blowing dry.
Then I use a folded white paper towel with Marvel Mystery Oil on it heavy, then rub on the cylinder walls until you see no discoloration of the red oil on the paper towel, then do it one more time. Now you finally ready for assembly.

On the oil subject, everyone uses different toilet paper!
I like motul 710 too, but too expensive. So the next solution for me with the same results is Quicksilver Synthetic blend Outboard oil. Order from Walmart and Advanced Auto parts.

When Mercury Marine sold you a 15,000 outboard engine and this is the oil they recommend to stay within the warranty policy...good stuff.
Remember outboard engine run like they are on a dyno load their whole life and hold up, that works for me in my RD's.
Been using it for over 10 years. Belray SI-7 was my favorite too back then.   
Chuck
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: pdxjim on April 16, 2019, 10:48:57 PM
I feel the same way about the BRP pwc/snowmachine oil I've been using.

Those suckers run WFO pretty much all the time.

Plus it's only $13/liter and 710 is up over $20 now.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: SUPERTUNE on April 17, 2019, 07:54:33 AM
I can go to any walmart here and pick up Quicksilver oil $30 a gallon +tax, as I live in a very high boating area.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mercury-Quicksilver-Synthetic-Blend-2-Cycle-Outboard-Oil/17165294 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mercury-Quicksilver-Synthetic-Blend-2-Cycle-Outboard-Oil/17165294)
C
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: Jessup on April 17, 2019, 10:11:30 AM
No matter how much evidence proves cheap oil never damaged anything, people will still continue worshiping glorified oil containers like religion.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: whymee on April 17, 2019, 12:00:08 PM
Quote from: Robert58 on April 15, 2019, 01:00:55 PM
I ran Yamalube R for about 1000 miles on new ProX pistons and rings. I and found about 0.001 wear on pistons and ring end was huge gap . I called Yamaha and they say only to use Yamalube R for premix and run Yamalube S for injection. I just had cylinders honed and installing new pistons and rings did leak down test held 6 psig for over 1/2 hour.  Any suggestions on oil  choice would be appreciated.

Yamaha is correct. S is for injection.

The word on the street is that R is too thick for injection.

I have been using R & S in the correct application for the better part of thirty years. No oil related failures. Ever.
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: Robert58 on April 18, 2019, 10:41:12 PM
Yeah, I picked some Motul 710 (18.95 a qt) not cheap at a local Cycle gear. Whymee, it does look to pour a lot thinner than the Yamalube R
Chuck I checked my compression at 120 psig both cylinders and pump shim clearance  is 0.010 . I hope issue was running the Yamalube R when I shouldnt have
Title: Re: Injection oil recommendations ?
Post by: Robert58 on April 19, 2019, 02:49:53 PM
I picked up some Moul 710 at local Cycle store ($18.95) OUCH   and yes it appears thinner than the Yamalube R . Probably should have just picked up Yamlube S at $1095.  Checked the injector pump travel at 0.010" and my compression at 120 psig . Will recheck timing and get ready for heat cycles :)