For those bestowed with deep pockets, here is a fun ride:
1989 Yamaha TZR250 - Iconic Motorbike Auctions (https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/auction/1989-yamaha-tzr250-3ma1-2/)
Warren
Nice bike, but I think it's already way over bid. Although it's low miles, it shows some corrosion and condition issues. And there may be an error in the listing regarding the issuing state of the title. It may not have a CA title.
Quote from: SoCal250 on December 04, 2023, 01:22:27 PMNice bike, but I think it's already way over bid.
I have said that myself too many times over the years - often an 'overbid' bike becomes a bellwether of things to come, and the prices are the new base for future sales. As supplies dry up, demand drives the price.
Anecdotally, about 20 years ago I paid way too much (at least that is what everyone told me) for a Yamaha TZ750. When I picked the bike up, the seller who was in his 70's had a whole row of TZ750's, TZ500's, vintage Kawasaki KR triples, and basically a million-dollar collection. When I asked if he was a retired racer, he said he didn't ride and was just a fan; back in the 1980's when the values of the '70's 2-stroke race bikes was in the toilet, he scarfed up as many of them as he could afford, and stuck them all in storage to sit on for many years; he was now living very comfortably off the profits selling the now valuable machinery for 10 times or more than what he paid; it was his 401K on wheels!
What he said made perfect sense, so I did the same with the TZ I bought from him, and now that I'm 70 myself, I am selling it to subsidize my retirement income. The "too much" I paid then was a smokin' deal compared to what it's worth today, and it is time to cash in ... it sells in January 2024:
1974 Yamaha TZ750A (https://www.mecum.com/lots/1102561/1974-yamaha-tz750/?aa_id=520006-0)
Warren
I think part of the reason it's overbid is because bidders may be under the impression it has a Calif title, which it doesn't seem to. There is an error in the listing. I have tried to point this out on the Iconic site but my comment from 2 days ago never appeared and is in "pending" limbo status.
I think the winning bidder might get a big surprise if they're expecting to register it in CA.
Might be almost worth it for a 2XT, but no way for a plain ol' 1KT/2MA
Quote from: pdxjim on December 06, 2023, 04:00:18 PMMight be almost worth it for a 2XT, but no way for a plain ol' 1KT/2MA
It is a reverse cylinder 3MA...
But still way too much when looking beyond the new paint.
It now has a clean Oregon title.
Quote from: busa1300 on December 06, 2023, 06:54:00 PMQuote from: pdxjim on December 06, 2023, 04:00:18 PMMight be almost worth it for a 2XT, but no way for a plain ol' 1KT/2MA
It is a reverse cylinder 3MA...
But still way too much when looking beyond the new paint.
Whoops! You're right. Def not worth it for a scruffy 3MA.
Quote from: SoCal250 on December 06, 2023, 12:27:49 PMI think part of the reason it's overbid is because bidders may be under the impression it has a Calif title, which it doesn't seem to. There is an error in the listing. I have tried to point this out on the Iconic site but my comment from 2 days ago never appeared and is in "pending" limbo status.
I think the winning bidder might get a big surprise if they're expecting to register it in CA.
Ad corrected to Oregon title. So if purchased could you not transfer the title to California if you live there?
Quote from: rodneya on December 06, 2023, 08:04:10 PMQuote from: SoCal250 on December 06, 2023, 12:27:49 PMI think part of the reason it's overbid is because bidders may be under the impression it has a Calif title, which it doesn't seem to. There is an error in the listing. I have tried to point this out on the Iconic site but my comment from 2 days ago never appeared and is in "pending" limbo status.
I think the winning bidder might get a big surprise if they're expecting to register it in CA.
Ad corrected to Oregon title. So if purchased could you not transfer the title to California if you live there?
Nope, impossible to register here.
Quote from: SoCal250 on December 06, 2023, 09:30:28 PMNope, impossible to register here.
Does the 25yr not apply in CA?
Been studying prices - domestically overpriced (it seems way over), but maybe not so much Internationally - only thing a title is good for is ease of export documentation.
Looking at the bids, at least 3 people think it's worth $15K+, and no retractions (yet) over the Title update.
This bike definitely has a generous coating of lipstick, but probably actual miles; are those the original tires? . Nearest recent sale I could find was a 1994 Yamaha TZR250SPR that sold for $17K.
Warren
Quote from: Yamanatic on December 07, 2023, 10:23:46 AMThis bike definitely has a generous coating of lipstick, but probably actual miles; are those the original tires? . Nearest recent sale I could find was a 1994 Yamaha TZR250SPR that sold for $17K.
Warren
The SPR was introduced in 95 and was light years ahead of the reverse cylinder 3MA in almost every way. They are considered the TZR to have, as they were the very last of the Yamaha two strokes. Very similar to the 3XV SP versions from 91-94, except it did not have the close ratio trans. Definitely worth more than a standard 3MA.
Like Randy said, the 3MA1 and 3XVC are completely different bikes and in different price categories.
I think that auction went way over what it's worth. But I guess someone had to have it. I'll bet the seller is happy!
Looking at past sales on IMR, it looks like the TZR sale prices are very homogenized on most all years there, with a fairly narrow range excluding an outlier or two. Check out the sold TZR prices:
Sold TZR prices on IMR (https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/sold/?_sft_pa_motorbike-make=yamaha&_sft_pa_motorbike-model=tzr250)
Warren
That is where it is important to understand the differences in the various TZR's built when buying. Condition is one thing, but knowing what is correct for each year and version within each year will change true value as well.
The TZR that you show on the list that is an SP has several reasons for its high price. Mileage is one, but it is an SP also. The 3XV SP's may look near identical to a non SP, but were truly very different. More like a genuine TZ in reality.
Different frame, different swingarm, slightly different bodywork, seat cowl,... carbs, intakes, reed valves, ignition, crank, triple clamps, gauges, crankcases, cylinders, heads, exhaust, clutch, radiator, oil pump, rear shock, trans, forks, front axle.... With only 500 built each year.
Hey busa1300, you obviously know your TZR's - the condensed info is appreciated! I do have a vested interest (or two) in learning the values and prices of TZRs; I have a friend with a Japan pipeline, and a buyer there willing (for a fee) to buy and ship bikes to the US. If there is a crate with extra room, he has offered to include a buy of my choice ... a full container knocks the shipping cost down into the $600/bike range. He pulls about a dozen rarities out of Japan every year.
Yamaha has always been my go-to absolute favorite bike Mfgr, not to mention what was between my legs whenever I managed a podium finish in a past life; had to give up road racing bikes thanks to the physical scourges of age and too much crashing. Never owned a TZR, but do see one in my future since I still enjoy street and (low key) dirt riding.
Kinda looks like an SP (RS maybe?) is the wat to go - love the jingling of a dry clutch! Obviously an unmolested original is the way to go, and considering the rarity, looks like it's best to be ready and well informed enough to pull the trigger on the spot should one come up, or miss it. Love the comments left around the internet on SP prices; most everyone says the sellers are asking or paying too much, but sales a year or two later are always a couple thousand more than the last. The SP has an upward march in prices, and I see no end. Something like this - only 1.6 Million Yen ($11K usd):
TZR250SP Japan Yahoo Auctions (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r1098801156)
Other reason is the '84 NS250R Honda project bike I'm re-commissioning currently; it lit the fire. I knew the NS was a rare bird and an excellent production racer; the first one I raced against one was at Daytona - he was in my class and a front runner; I had him on my well modded RD400 in the infield (he had problems keeping it on the pipe, and was an easy pass coming out of turns), but when the battle of sheer speed commenced on the high-bank, he slowly walked away when we reached 3-figure speeds. So when the Honda popped up on Craigslist about a month ago, I had it in a matter of hours. When done, I will probably put it on Iconic Auctions since they seem to have the most buyers for early L.C. Sport type 2T's. First Honda to grace the garage in 15 years.
Warren
I have sold a lot of bikes thru the years, but my one regret was letting my 3XV go. Although just a basic R model, it was a fantastic little bike. Looking back, I should've just sat on it til I had the cash to do the porting, pipes, carbs/airboxes, and Zeel needed to bring it to it's full potential.
(https://i.ibb.co/L63DQs3/3xv.jpg)
Quote from: Yamanatic on December 12, 2023, 12:33:01 PMThe SP has an upward march in prices, and I see no end. Something like this - only 1.6 Million Yen ($11K usd):
TZR250SP Japan Yahoo Auctions (https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r1098801156)
I did a lot of research before buying the SP I have. The 93-94 RS uses the SP swing arm and suspension, the dry clutch, but the trans has the standard TZR ratios. Motor is otherwise identical to the standard TZR.
The small bonus with a SP is the crank is near identical to the 3YL-4DP TZ crank, so bearings, seals as well as most gaskets are same.
The 93-94 SP is even closer to a TZ with blade powervalves, but smaller 32mm powerjet carbs..(91-92 SP have 36mm powerjet carbs)
4DP cylinders can be put on an SP along with pipes and carbs, and you have street legal TZ that can put out 80 plus HP at the tire.
Wider TZ wheels are a near direct swap as well.
Also, the yen is down quite a bit compared to the dollar right now, so bikes are at a discount so to speak at the moment
So the listing is gone?
Did it sell?
M
Quote from: Milan on December 19, 2023, 10:58:29 AMSo the listing is gone?
Did it sell?
Yes it sold for too much money. Nearly $17K! For some reason the sold listing has been removed. It used to be visible.
I wonder if it had something to do with the title error in the listing that I pointed out. Maybe the winning bidder got a surprise when they tried to transfer the title.
Back in the early days of online (eBay) auctions, several 'sellers' were outed for putting up non-existent bikes (pictures), and bidding them up to set a Value on vehicles they were attempting to collect inflated insurance on. These sales would follow the same format: post a very believable ad, shill-bid the value way up to an unrealistic price, and delete the auction in entirety after a few days of the auction 'sale.'
Relisted {due to a non-pay bidder)
https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/auction/no-reserve-1989-yamaha-tzr250-3ma1/
TZR250_3ma1.jpg
Quote from: SoCal250 on December 24, 2023, 02:34:17 AMRelisted {due to a non-pay bidder)
Not a surprise, that bid was somewhat out of touch.
Whew, that thing is rough under the pretty bodywork. Randy, your photo request has shed a light on more than that crusty spring.