So I just got my 520 conversion kit in for my 73 RD350, and was surprised that it came with a non ORing chain. I called and was told that it was for the sake of weight savings. This does make sense to me, but I would think that for a street bike you would want the oring/xring for weather and longevity.
What is the consensus on this?
i usually run non o-ring chains on the older bikes. my reasoning is clearance. they usually get super close to the engine. ive seen an o-ring chain actually saw into an rd case before, it was an extreme situation and a 530.. but ive seen it. (remember the clearance from the inside of the sprocket to the motor doesn't change on a 530 to 520 conversion).
Unless you plan on commuting on it or seeing a lot of rain riding i wouldn't sweat it. :twocents:
Quote from: m in sc on October 19, 2024, 06:51:57 AMi usually run non o-ring chains on the older bikes. my reasoning is clearance. they usually get super close to the engine. ive seen an o-ring chain actually saw into an rd case before, it was an extreme situation and a 530.. but ive seen it. (remember the clearance from the inside of the sprocket to the motor doesn't change on a 530 to 520 conversion).
Unless you plan on commuting on it or seeing a lot of rain riding i wouldn't sweat it. :twocents:
The bike doesn't get commuted, but its not out of the question for it to see a small amount of rain or something like that.
I have other bikes and do good with keeping chains cleaned/lubed, and I am also a bit worried about clearance if I went to an Oring chain. John at economy said it could be done, ut I didn't ask if I needed a specific one.
The weight thing is kind of ridiculous especially since you are already changing down to a 520. the drag thing is as well, unless you are recording lap times or drag racing.
Ive gotten 35-40 k out of an o-ring chain on a modern bike. (sv). On rds, i usually get.. 10k+ depending how modified the bike is. always due to stretch, never due to rust or contamination per say. My modern CT125 (low hp) has a factory non o-ring chain and i have 6k on it, its a 428 and still in great shape. and its seen plenty of wet roads. I mean.. its a preference. I have an o-ring chain on the KZ650 because i could fit one and will likely see way more highway conditions on that. IMHO, if you can get an 0-ring chain to fit in ok w no issues, the only (real) downside is cost, but i certainly don't consider it a necessity, unless maybe you are storing outside, then it might help a bit more. Just get a good quality chain, rk, did , etc. . :twocents:
I went with the gold 520 O ring chain from Economy just because it looks nice on my green bike. I'm very impressed with the way it never needs adjustment.
I use these DID narrow x-ring chains on all vintage bikes. Cheap enough, a few mm slimmer than the rest, and last forever (especially on low torque 2Ts)
https://www.didchain.com/products/520ervt?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1NK4BhAwEiwAVUHPUFY90ikWYq9VmJiO7Oiu5fsjGox9JMtP8mFGWJ8Vi_5Kf9LhKGFMxxoC_P4QAvD_BwE
Quote from: pdxjim on October 20, 2024, 12:31:34 PMI use these DID narrow x-ring chains on all vintage bikes. Cheap enough, a few mm slimmer than the rest, and last forever (especially on low torque 2Ts)
https://www.didchain.com/products/520ervt?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1NK4BhAwEiwAVUHPUFY90ikWYq9VmJiO7Oiu5fsjGox9JMtP8mFGWJ8Vi_5Kf9LhKGFMxxoC_P4QAvD_BwE
I honestly forgot those existed. I do like the oring chain, but the rear sprocket is aluminum, so would it really matter if the chain lasts 20,000mi if the sprockets only last half that?
i mean a lot depends on environment. I'm not going to lie, mine ride/live in a relatively clean road and dry storage environment and i typically avoid rain because, well, i just don't like riding in it. I run aluminum sprockets on a few bikes, never had wear issues. And its true, the o-ring chains will typically last longer if they are good quality ones as mentioned. I've had crappy versions of them get out of spec really quickly as well.
the point being, quality good chains are worth it, will last longer, o-ring or not. will the o ring chains outlast an = quality non o ring, probably. Id run nothing other than a top quality o-ring chain on my CB1100, but it can and does see inclement weather and a lot more miles than the rds do. But.. how many miles, on dusty roads, rain riding, etc, do you realistically plan on putting on one of these? even o-ring chains will get crusty from sitting and then wear from use. Hence why i think (on these) its a preference.
Question of the day is do O ring chains rob a little of the power you are trying to put down?
Quote from: 1976RD400C on October 21, 2024, 08:57:00 AMQuestion of the day is do O ring chains rob a little of the power you are trying to put down?
Great question! Another related question I have is does the 520 conversion rob power vs. 428?
again, not enough to notice. on the lightweight.. I looked into going 428 but no bueno, wouldn't hold up.
Most adult Americans have a bit of extra weight. Save money, cut down on the Big Macs instead of buying lighter parts.
Quote from: Hawaii-Mike on October 21, 2024, 04:38:20 PMMost adult Americans have a bit of extra weight. Save money, cut down on the Big Macs instead of buying lighter parts.
Personally, I'm looking forward to putting on an olive drab outfit and looking like an olive riding a pimento on my '75 RD350...
On the note of cutting weight off myself, there isn't really any fat to cut, so thats fruitless.
I ended up just doing a nice DID ERT3 non oring chain.
The bike isn't going to be ridden in the rain if I can avoid it. I have crusty ones for that. And I'm not commuting on it.
Quote from: 1976RD400C on October 21, 2024, 08:57:00 AMQuestion of the day is do O ring chains rob a little of the power you are trying to put down?
If you're looking to pick up HP, non o-ring is free HP. There is a notable difference when spinning a tire when a bike is on the stand from o-ring to non o-ring. To some degree it's the same as drum brake compared to discs...
Discs obviously work better, but do absorb power unlike a drum. Some of the modern trans oils, may say 80 weight but flows like water...parasitic drag does add up. And with small displacement two strokes, every little bit help.
Quote from: busa1300 on October 26, 2024, 09:51:43 AMQuote from: 1976RD400C on October 21, 2024, 08:57:00 AMQuestion of the day is do O ring chains rob a little of the power you are trying to put down?
If you're looking to pick up HP, non o-ring is free HP. There is a notable difference when spinning a tire when a bike is on the stand from o-ring to non o-ring. To some degree it's the same as drum brake compared to discs...
Discs obviously work better, but do absorb power unlike a drum. Some of the modern trans oils, may say 80 weight but flows like water...parasitic drag does add up. And with small displacement two strokes, every little bit help.
So far in the rotating mass department I've laced up aluminum rims, gone to a 520 chain, and the coated aluminum rear sprocket.
The rear sprocket really surprised me. The old steel sprocket registered about 1.5lbs on my little spring scale, and the new aluminum doesn't even move the gauge
Well it's my kit so I'll weigh in as well. I made the kit to reduce un-sprung weight, not to address clearance issues when fitting an xring to an RD. And it kinda defeats the purpose (weight savings) of the 520 kit to run an x-ring chain. And remember it's un-sprung weight, worth about 10x sprung weight savings.
I drop the front sprocket size as well cos that's usually what guys want so you get 2 mods in one, the 520 and a smaller sprocket. It's a one size fits all kind of kit meant to make it easy for guys to do the conversion, bolt on and go. Won't be right for everyone, but we sell all the stuff separately to make any kind of setup you want. Same with the gearing, won't be right for everyone but fine for most. You can get any combination of gearing you want and any chain you want individually, but I have to make the kits more uniform to be able to offer them "off the shelf" and to keep a reasonable price point.
The xring will far outlast the roller, and you'll end up putting new sprockets on a worn chain. My thinking was to have the sprockets/chain wear out about the same time and to just replace with a new kit. Not to mention a decent x-ring chain, like the ERT posted, would add about $100 to the kit. The link posted for the ERT was $164 just for the chain, our kit is $169 total for chain and sprockets.
My thinking is if you want longevity then run a 530 xring with steel sprockets. Some clearance issues but can be dealt with without too much trouble. I have a 530 o-ring and steel sprockets on my stock 400, put it on back in the 90s, still going strong, minimal stretch.
If you want performance run a 520 with roller chain and aluminum rear sprocket. Saves about 3lbs of unsprung weight, reduces drive train resistance.
This is the 530 oring on my 400. The clearance issue I had was with the flange on the bolt head of the chain adjuster, rubbed the chain a bit. So I grinded off the flange and works fine. I had no issues with the front sprocket rubbing the cases, but you could run a spacer on the front sprocket up to 2mm without chain alignment issues if you needed to gain some clearance. That chain has hardly worn or stretched at all, lots of adjustment left.
(https://www.economycycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Tsubaki-O-Ring.JPG)