Took the tank off the RZ for lining and 2K clear coat. Not to make it pretty, but to make it hold gas fumes inside instead of bubbling up the paint in a couple spots. Also, ordered a new needle from Toomey because the left one looked a little chewed up. Installed that. Put it all together and rode around the neighborhood.
The YPVS had previously been a little off, so I got it lined up before ever taking off the tank.
While rolling on it in 1st or 2nd, it seems to bog, (or be missing a lot of torque). Then suddenly, about when the YPVS should have done it's thing and is getting out of the way, there is a sudden torque hit. I mean light switch sudden. Learned to lean over the tank just to compensate for that.
Got back to the house (twice) and the YPVS is full clockwise with the engine off. Should be at counter-clockwise "home" position. Turned the key on and instead of 2 moves turning clockwise to open and then back to home, it makes three moves and DOES find home position by itself. Both times. Seems like it should be fine. Why would something go wrong?
Then, what did I do? Maybe disturbed a wire? This was a carb and tank related exercise. Maybe #1 and #2 YPVS cables became too tight and caught up with me?
If any clues, please let me know.
If something disrupts the bikes battery power or the bike stalls the powervalve may sequence differently. Cable adjustment should be take up the slack and then back off the cable adjusters a 1/4 turn to prevent any drag.
your power valve controller sounds like it took a shit, or the servo is having an issue (if the wiring mentioned above is all ok).
hi,
if it turns out that the control box is toast (ive had one go after a reg/rect failure) there is a guy in Greece who repairs/modifies them with a switch box to play with the valve timing, i highly recommend him, did a great job on mine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/277019422206?_skw=tzr+power+valve+controller&itmmeta=01JW886RNA7RZYH9H1R5QJ0Q72&hash=item407fa4edfe:g:kpAAAOSwy4hUR7Y5&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAABAFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1eTynOTiN6ENN%2FDnZ4OWn%2FNLKHjJkPx3P9x7WNN2wEoXej1sR2THJwulVimrA7ZRUp0uAXtixK4jx%2BdjtPQjybO%2FZFp5tmxOdPqaehYqVbsqROe3%2Bnl%2FPjagS8Vof%2Fi3vkwqTab2hfZ5YCbWYL54bNZ5v4wmFzZB2FJBsP%2FWSbY98ft5yq6V98xhpLtCletkJcwwzHTHO9DMsBSCh6RhSVjBtL6Rt7WicBFtzfrXPq4gAJOVkzkCcI%2F8YTllPvIUsm10o0Rrvm5wGpn8XSUVC8N9fTI8Ris64BK%2BABm8Na0PREEe24936QlXG5t%2B3vFzJU%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-iKm4jiZQ
cheers
les.
Loosened up the cables a bit and checked that it was coming to rest in the right place last night.
The bike didn't stall out, but almost did on both rides. I could hear the YPVS hunting around as it was idling way too slow. Hoping that's what the prob was. Will have to report back later.
Also seeing where someone replaced the transistors on the board and "restored" the controller.
That looks really good, Les. Simple programmability, too. Priced pretty good for that. Thanks!
if you're still running a stock cdi as well, just get a zeeltronic that does both. 40byear old electronics are time bombs. 0.02
How old are the PV cables? when I had to rebuild my PV assembly due to O-ring leaks initially (also found slop where the clamp mated halves together) and reassembled everything according to the manual. I lubed the cables like I always did with other cables and they slid easily inside the sheaths. However, I couldn't get everything to stay adjusted correctly after multiple tries and test rides.
Did some more digging and came across instructions for a "drop test". Hold cable vertically, pull wire all the way up, then see if wire drops by itself with no friction/restrictions. They did drop but tiny bit slowly. I bought new cables and repeated drop test- comparing new vs. old and it was night & day difference. Installed new cables, adjusted everything per manual and it worked perfect and never lost adjustment again. Couldn't believe that little bit of restriction in old cables made THAT much of a difference but it did!
The cables have seen better days, I'm sure. Sounds like a concern that should be addressed.
Hoping that Zeel money won't have to be spent...
I'll be taking the cover off and revving it to watch valve movement, too.
zeel money is smart money spent. :twocents:
Quote from: m in sc on May 28, 2025, 06:23:15 PMzeel money is smart money spent. :twocents:
You can increase the area under the hp/torque curve, right?
I'll tear into the carbs again, just to see if something is amiss. YPVS seems to be moving appropriately. Carbs were synced mechanically, (although the right slide has a longer overall stroke length :huh:) Gonna compare the carb internal lever lengths to see what gives.
Always room for an error on my part.
...hits so hard on the power band.
yes you can move the pv positioning and timing curve. also, programmable rev limit and add a shift light. when I got my tzr was the 1st thing I ordered even though the stock stuff worked
40 year old electronics, sorry Heave. You should probably blame the guy who sold you this turd.
As a side note, Steve and I were at the same college 45 years ago so we go back a ways. I sold him the above RZ last summer, and I reserve the right to make fun of him when he has trouble with it. Having said that, I pray the ancient electronics turn out ok so he's not forced into zeel money. Rock on Steve, keep us updated.
Oh, it ran great until now. I'm into the carbs and everything is looking fine - so far. Double checking needle heights later, but they were sticking through the mains the same on both sides.
The power valve cycles and goes closed when it starts. Then, doesn't really budge until rpm goes to the power band range. Maybe I'm missing the opening steps in between.
Would be cool to drop in a known good YPVS controller to check before spending the dollars.
So, not discouraged, just feeling challenged. It's an old friend that needs some new parts.
they work till they don't. I remember..12? 15? years ago, or so, the kaw triple guys saying the cdis were bulletproof.. till they weren't. we just went thru this w Josh's 85. it had 3 issues, one was the pv controller, the other was a bad stator. THAT was fun to diagnose. also throw in a missing half moon c clip for the crank. :huh:
Mine with a Zeel controller cycles when you turn the key on and seems to come back to where it was with the key off. Start bike and it hasn't moved. At 5000 it starts to rotate, 6000 and away it goes and really cranks open.
Quote from: 1976RD400C on May 30, 2025, 12:44:53 PMMine with a Zeel controller cycles when you turn the key on and seems to come back to where it was with the key off. Start bike and it hasn't moved. At 5000 it starts to rotate, 6000 and away it goes and really cranks open.
Actually, that might be just what mine is doing with the revs going up.
I'll watch it while having someone else rev 5 - 6k.
Will raise the needles back up 1/2 step too.
There's still the possibility that it's something stupid simple.
My '74 H1 CDI went bad. I was in college and electronics nerd Ralph down the hall fixed it for me. He had me pick out all the potting first and attained instant hero status.
I forgot about Ralph and the resurrection of the H1 cdi box. I bet not many people try that route.
Assembled everything after going through the carbs again. Terrorized the neighborhood and starting to conclude that a cylinder must be dropping out. Starts/idles great, struggles through the low range (apparently on one cylinder) and furiously breaks loose from 6000+ rpm.
Plugs look good, they are gapped right. Left cylinder on the temp gun is a little cooler.
Not the coil, I assume.
Once the drop-out starts, it doesn't recover until the higher rpm.
Will look behind the left crank end cover just to do something.
Off on another path.
Does the RZ have ignition timing control that could have a segment of rpm drop out, due to loss of output?
Thank you guys for the seasoned suggestions!
Matt, this bike is too beautiful to be a turd.
again, did this recently. 99% sure on that the stator was going. swap could leads see of it follows.
Mark, I see your post on swapping leads and don't know what to swap without changing the wrong thing.
I envision doing that, having the same problem but with the other cylinder, and verifying with the temp gun. Then, not knowing what to look for to fix it.
if it does that its either the plug leads, plug cap or coil itself. since rz coils have the wire encased, its sort of a 'if the wires bad the coil prob needs to go'.
... keep in mind, the 1st thing i did when i got my tzr was get a new coil and zeeltronic right off the bat even though the stock ones worked well. i don't want to find out on a ride. i say this because i want to illustrate that i practice what i preach. 40 ish years is about the life expectancy of these components, it just is in my experience.
:twocents:
Ordering a coil assbly, plug caps and YPVS cables from Yambits before doing anything else :thumbs:
RZ plugs are supposed to be BR8ES.
Mine is running B8ES, but with 5kΩ caps.
*** 5k NGK resistor caps OR resistor is the same either way? ***
Don't want to overstress the coil - if that's a thing.
Yambits shipped Monday. Stuff arrived Wednesday, FedEx. They are hitting on all cylinders.
New Yambits parts did not help. Left cylinder seems to be what drops out - it's a little cooler after the laborious ride in the neighborhood and the plug is wet while the right is dry. New Yambits "stock" coil, which includes wires, and new 5kΩ caps.
Idles fine, struggles while loaded at low to mid rpm and then it's serious rocketship time at 6k or so. Kinda hairy.
Plugs are B8ES, (not BR8ES like the manual says - see question in the post above), and they ohm out/show continuity like non-resistor plugs should, gapped and looking like new too.
I have a 1985 52Y cdi, but it is 40+ years old now. YPVS under observation looks like it is doing exactly what it should.
Having the understanding now that both plugs fire every 1/2 rpm, the bias toward the left side struggling to fire is a mystery - UNLESS there's a problem with triggering during the timing of the left cylinder. Why it fixes itself just in time for the power band is :huh: .
Left cover comes off next to look at the flywheel trigger sitch. Maybe some of you brilliant dudes or chicks know something. [Remember Heather Dakota Gurl?]
I had an RZ back when it was fresh and new. This one, at 40 yrs old, is a learning curve.
...DO I NEED a new left carb "choke"/enrichener assembly? It looks like it's okay, but is original and seen better days.
Matt, I'm pleased with the result of your rebuild. It's well assembled and tight.
test your stator windings.
Steve hope you can narrow down what's going on. I don't even know what to suggest other than throwing parts at it. You certainly need the advice of this forum cause I'm not smart enough to help you. Keep on, you'll get it sooner or later.
3 stator windings seemed to settle at 0.2Ω across each other at 75F, 3 white wires.
Consistent, but not the 0.4Ω that the book says at 68F.
Seems ok.
Gonna order a new enrichener-knob assembly since it seems to be the left carb. Cheap from eBay. Not counting on it doing any good.
you measured the charging system windings, not the ignition windings.
Assuming (guessing) that I check resistance across the "High Speed Charge Coil" and "Low Speed Charge Coil"
Maybe Red across Green and Brown across Green?
Manual doesn't define which is high and which is low:
yes, check all those.
the 2 whites 'together' are (alternator) battery charging. high speed and low speed coil are what you are looking to test. they call it a charge coil because it charges the capacitor.
I don't have that 3 conductor plug with red, green and brown.
There are separate green bullet, brown bullet and red/white bullet connectors.
Green to brown should be 2.55 ohm (according to the manual with differences from my reality) or 225 ohms, per some web post.
Mine is 132 ohms.
Brown to red/white (not just red) that does go to the cdi by a different route is 8MΩ. Presumably, should be 5.33Ω.
That could be the smoking gun. Confusion is the thing though.
Maybe someone threw in a workable stator from some other year.
What's the best route for a drop-in stator to try next?
get it rebuilt by Rick's. it's done. same exact issue josglh had w his. expect to pay 380 ish
Found this. Would have helped with the plug and red wire confusion:
"The 1985 31K has changed Stator and CDI. The CDI is marked 52 Y-50. The 52 Y-50 CDI has also only 8 connections (the other two to have 9).
This CDI is missing the black-and-white cable, which serves to turn the engine off by the kill switch. The 85 stator is marked ÈZ or 8DX. The stator has two somewhat thicker load coils.
Safe distinguisher of the 85 stator is the red-white cable at the load coil, which is always red with both other stators! A further indication is the missing connector for the "load coil", which turns into three individual plugs (brown, green and red-white). The Rotor has the marking 51L."
Steve, guy selling a Vape ignition for 300 bucks in the for sale section. Guessing you've seen it...
Saw that, but looking at it today, I see, per Mark, that it would work on the RZ after all.
Have no clue on compatibility with stock CDi and future compatibility with CDi and power valve module changes.
Lack of knowledge is an issue here. Looks attractive to me.
it should bolt right on. however, remember there's no keyway so it will need to be positioned.
I'm in.
Will need help with positioning method when it arrives.
Degree wheel, or just dial indicator on piston(?)
Thanks for the heads up, Matt
and the endorsement, Mark
i do it with a dial indicator.
I do see some toastiness.
I don't see how the VAPE talks to the RZ CDi & power valve control.
Looks like it's for an RD.
Am I missing something?
Geez I hate to be that guy but I've been following this thread outta curiosity and yeah that set up diagram is what I used for my 75' RD250 and I have seen that Vape ignition listed here in the classifieds. I thought it was a good deal cuz it is but for the RD. Just getting on the Economy Cycles site I see specific complete Vape ignitions for either the RD's or RZ/Banshee's and you're on there you notice different SKU/part numbers. To make it more confusing...here's a link to the Vape site that list some of the different systems they offer for Yamaha bikes. Good site to bookmark there is also install instructions. https://www.vape.eu/yamaha?page=2 (https://www.vape.eu/yamaha?page=2)
Yeah I dunno, way over my head...I'm just looking at those assy. instructions and corresponding wiring diagrams. Looks like you pasted the correct one based off the part number listed but it seems like Vape just uses the same diagram for all the RD models they offer. Oh well a lot help I am. I do notice that they indicate one system that works for RD's and Banshees taking note of a longer crankshaft.
Yeah that one set of coils looks a little crispy. Acting as your useful idiot of a friend, I have a dial indicator that screws into the spark plug hole if you need to borrow one. Easy to send.
I have the cool indicator setup from Economy Cycle, Matt. It has made my life much easier with the RD400 points timing.
RDryan, I tried to be accurate on that product number and web schematic. The main number, 711379900, is the same. However, the one that snorkelfork is offering has an extra "-102-4" at the end of the part number. Don't know if that makes a difference.
This could be a bust. He plans to look into the included schematic and get back to me. snorkelfork is a good dude.
the powervalve controller and cdi are all based off ignition signal. it will work, period. will it wire right in directly? no you need to get the signal sourced. the easiest way is.. get a zeel and wire it all in at the same time. OR reach out to vape. Imho the best thing to do to KEEP IT SIMPLE is to get the stock stator repaired. or, contact vape and ask for a schematic. but you're going to have ro spend some money one way or the other
It's a pay less now on stator repair with some delay to get it running AND pay more later when something else fails (because there's no "Ralph" a few doors down anymore).
At work, I find overseas communicating to be problematic.
Yeah I see, Mark.
I'll check in with snorkelfork.
Life's short and I have limited time to spend in the garage. Since I might tragically die some day, a Rick's rewind looks like the thing to do.
$800 for NOS on eBay.
yeah. but nos is still 40 yrs old. avoid it imho
:agree:
Get a Rick's. Better than NOS for a couple reasons. As Mark mentioned, the NOS has been sitting around for decades while the Rick's is new. Rick's stators are also better built than OEM. I bought one a few years ago for one of my bikes and it's really nice.
Yeah, I see they won't take it back so that could be a nightmare - and they want too much.
This does look interesting, though: https://www.ebay.com/itm/154287303614?
That said, I filled out a Rick's part repair form to print off and send. Gotta respect our US business peeps.
this is deja vu to joshes rz, even considering the overseas one. Tim, if you're reading this... right?
Yes it is...
Josh must be an alright dude :dawg:
Was there a thread on his terrible plight?
I did err by titling this one with "YPVS".
Appreciate everyone helping out!
there was not yeah hes a great dude but was super super frustrated. and rightfully so. this was also on a freshly rebuilt motor and a fresh painted bike etc. he poured a SHITLOAD of time, effort, money into it doing everything right... except that. and now he is literally just waiting otn eh stator to get back, should be Monday or Tuesday
mnein just rebuilt the engine and brakes on this one. What could possibly go wrong with 28k miles, multiple wipeouts and 40 years?
Would be nice to see a photo of Josh's if he's willing to share - so we can drool.
sure.
i realized i hadnt uploaded any '25 deals gap pics, so i uploaded them just now. we spent all week trying to diagnose it.
(https://2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/gap-all/gap-2025/20250507_192857.jpg)
weeks before, we had it at the house after it blew the motor, right after the rebuild trying to sort it out then as well. carbs, ignition, jetting, swapping parts etc. I always 'felt' it was the stator, but took a while to confirm.
(https://2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/gap-all/gap-2025/20250507_141419.jpg)
(https://2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/gap-all/gap-2025/20250518_125547.jpg)
Thought that I replied that the paint looks excellent!
So, 2+2=4
That bike is an '85, it's 40 yrs old. Mine's an '85. Apparently, the winding protection lasts 40 years, period.
Rick's must be seeing a lot this year. They have mine, but I haven't heard back and might not for a couple weeks.
Photo of that red RZ in the garage looks tasty.
yeah thats in my garage trying to figure out wtf was wrong w it in april. i think they had joshs 3 or 4 weeks. He got it back and has ridden it every. single . day . since. ....And is smitten. I ruined that poor boy. :devil: :clap:
My original stator is hanging in there, but the previous owner told me the controller blew so he installed the Zeel.
Schematic
Quote from: m in sc on June 30, 2025, 09:35:17 PMHe got it back and has ridden it every. single . day . since. ....And is smitten. I ruined that poor boy. :devil: :clap:
I understand the smitten thing. He probably has more power than me, but I had forgotten how that torque felt. I'm smitten by the power valve concept.
Matt put a fresh 15T front sprocket on too. I'm sure that's part of what I like. Seems just right for an RZ.
RD400C, that Zeel schematic sells itself.
Rick's called today. My stator actually checks out fine. I'll be looking at some wiring beyond the stator pigtail on the RZ to see if there was an open somewhere in the red/white wire.
I'm thinking to get them to rebuild it anyway because of age plus that caramelized burnt look; while also assuming that there's a possible problem in that red/white wire since I measured closer to the cdi box instead of the stator pigtail.
Is there a transistor in the cdi bad? I dunno.
How's Josh's stator now?
Did his look toasted?
looked perfect actually.
Well crap. I suppose it would be better if they had found something wrong with the stator, then you at least could point your finger at something.
Quote from: mnein on July 10, 2025, 08:44:46 AMWell crap. I suppose it would be better if they had found something wrong with the stator, then you at least could point your finger at something.
Yeah, that threw a little wrinkle into things. I tested that red/white wire that I had used to check the winding with high ohms last night. It was fine.
Planning to call Rick's and tell then to go ahead. I saw that dark brown insulation and it did smell burnt. Seems like something might be intermittent and shows up fine for them, but not real life dependable.
Quote from: 2steve on July 10, 2025, 09:03:42 AMQuote from: mnein on July 10, 2025, 08:44:46 AMWell crap. I suppose it would be better if they had found something wrong with the stator, then you at least could point your finger at something.
Yeah, that threw a little wrinkle into things. I tested that red/white wire that I had used to check the winding with high ohms last night. It was fine.
Planning to call Rick's and tell then to go ahead. I saw that dark brown insulation and it did smell burnt. Seems like something might be intermittent and shows up fine for them, but not real life dependable.
Good call IMO. In the past I always had terrible luck in situations like this. I'd figure "OK Great! Experts said it's OK, so I get off cheap". Then get it back together and seems good for a bit before it fails for good. Lesson learned the hard way :bang:
yeah. man I hope I was right and didn't cost you unnecessary funds. but, at least when it's back (and I'm pretty sure that's the issue) you'll KNOW
Joe@Rick's is on it. They are to call for my credit card info.
$360, but a big step forward in troubleshooting and peace of mind.
Hoping to feel that rush of RZ torque again.
In the meantime, there are plenty of little things to do.
Either way, Mark, I appreciate it.
for me, peace of mind is worth it. like said we went thru every last component Josh's
It seems at this stage of the game you gotta do the stator dance. Heather will understand.
Quote from: mnein on July 11, 2025, 08:12:39 AMIt seems at this stage of the game you gotta do the stator dance. Heather will understand.
She knits, using expensive yarn. So the understanding is built in. If her friends ask about a shawl, they have no idea that just the yarn cost is over $120. It's therapy. She knits so nobody dies.
lol. my wife has horses that cost way more $ for feeding, vet bills, etc. than all my cycle projects combined so I never hear a word about my hobby being expensive :vroom:
My wife: "I thought you said you would be selling some of your bikes, that never seems to happen"
exactly! I've heard that so many times before, so I list each bike I sold in the previous year. oops, forgetting to mention the new ones I replaced them with :dawg:
Stator is making its way back from NH.
I got distracted by the gauges. They look like this:
20250720_174707.jpg
Diablo decals will get them looking like this first attempt as long as I don't mess things up:
20250720_152825.jpg
Buying some Testors fluorescent orange to turn the middle strip on the bottom side of the needles back to orange instead of faded white.
That must mean that I'm optimistic that it will run right soon.
Hey Steve, just got back from vacation. Hope the stator cures things, and rock on with the gauges. Them there are hard to replace. My wifes hobbies do not come close to costing as much as mine do, but we have some working understanding on financing of said hobbies.
Gauges look much better with new Diablo faces and the needles painted fluorescent orange.
Rick's did a good looking job on the stator. Hope that is the true cause of the low-mid range running problems.
Rewound stator is in. The problem is 30 - 40% better, but still there. Wondering about plugs and jetting, since the coil has been replaced with new.
OK to run non-resistor plugs AND non-resistor caps with the stock cdi?
Neighbor stopped me offering to buy it last night.
yes you can do that. same thing Josh ran knto.. reset jetting to where it was and spot on
The pilot now is one size bigger than Toomey says. I agree with that, since the air screw can just be opened up to 1.5 turns to make it right, but maybe I'll go with their size 20 at 1/2 turn out. They did all the research after all. Maybe drop the needles 1/2 to one step.
Just rebuilt, so rich was ok, but might be a problem now.
I'll get new non-resistor caps and new non-resistor plugs.
... and do everything at once, so if it improves, I won't know why.
Here's what I learned messing around with mine for 3 years. If you change the pipes and air filter, they develop a bad flat spot at 5000-6000 rpm. You can hear it through the exhaust and intake tract. Jetting doesn't help it. I did pretty much fix it by installing UFO inserts in the carb slides. That required machining on the bottom of the slide to get them to fit in there even though they said they were for a RZ. Mine has resistor caps and spark plugs. I tried non resistor plugs, no noticeable difference. I switched from K&N and Y boot to individual foam filters, better top end power. I have the Dynojet needles and 410 mains. Didn't notice any difference from 360 mains. My PCDI-10VT is programmed same as a stock CDI, 27.5* at 3500 going to 17.5* at 9000 and 9* at 10000. If the power valve sticks and won't open up, it still runs ok but the top end power is not there. Those UFO inserts on this bike and my RD make a huge difference in throttle response, especially in low throttle openings.
^^^That's a help. I noticed that flat spot. It was ok enough, then it got worse. The thought was that it's a YPVS transition problem, when it was partly/mostly(?) the stator.
Assuming, like the RD400, you put UFO's in and you're pilot size MUST go down. With a 400 and boost bottle, way down.
Do you have size 20 pilots, or smaller with UFO's?
All good info. Thanks! I have UFO's that might fit:
For the RZ I have 15 pilots with the air screw at 2 1/2 turns. That feels right. I'm experimenting now with adusting when the power valve moves using the Zeel.
heres my advice: you did a repair. set the bike up how it was before and see if its back 'to normal' if its not, you still have something else to address repair wise. get your baseline tuning on the carbs back to where it was, period,. . don't change stuff now or it will never get diagnosed.
get the plugs sorted out, set the carbs back up they way they were. assess from there. ( and no, resistor plugs and caps or lack thereof shouldn't change anything. IF you have to run resistor plugs, run non resistor caps. they do have them. )
Id still be leery of the cdi box or coil. the " '30-40' percent better" tells me you haven't completely fixed it yet, and ufos aren't going to fix that. :twocents:
Yeah, gotta think on that. Carbs really are where they were, just don't know if being a little rich pilot/air screw/needle is a factor in this. It did run very well with this same setup previously (with that 5 - 6k flat spot that it would push through ok).
It has the same lower rpm symptoms to a lesser degree, but is no longer lighting up consistently at 6k or so. Just acts congested, then overcomes it in a less predictable way now.
Would be nice to be able to health check the cdi.
replace it.
John @ Economy has a Zeel stock RZ replacement. Might not be too much to handle. I'll just need to be a wiring boy with cool new tools.
RegulatorRectifier might have too.
Plugging in a known good one to check would be convenient.
I know the original 52Y cdi's are 40 yrs old, but are they known to be failing?
get the cdi and powervalve controller unit in one.
Steve - the 52Y's were obviously the good ones, the other part number cdi failed within the first 5 or 10 years of new. Unfortunately I don't know anyone that can determine the health of your cdi, maybe impossible, so I suppose you're doomed to replacing electronics until you find what's wrong. Working on a car right now that has intermittent starting problems so I sympathize a little with your pain.
yup. my 84s cdi died in like 09 or so. if you plan on keeping the bike just replace it.
Planning to keep the RZ till someone has to pry it from my cold, dead hands :dawg:
Mark, seems you did better than most if it wasn't till 2009.
Presuming I can use the Zeel that has both controllers inside with the stock stator and stock coil?
Matt, if you are stumped, do what I did and call three-finger Bill, (Shari's cell number). That boy knows everything.
In my case, the '90s Chev pickup needed a new ignig switch.
Glad I got a quarterly commission check recently :thumbs:
yes you can wire it in with stock stuff. get a new dyna coil as well
If you decide on a pcdi-10vt I would suggest the wire connection plug kit that Economy sells so you can add those on the controller wires and just plug everything into your existing harness (plug and play). Also the handheld programmer.
Quote from: 1976RD400C on July 31, 2025, 03:02:21 PMIf you decide on a pcdi-10vt I would suggest the wire connection plug kit that Economy sells so you can add those on the controller wires and just plug everything into your existing harness (plug and play). Also the handheld programmer.
Can you provide a link to the proper kit to order from Economy?
Thanks
https://www.economycycle.com/product-category/yamaha-rz-350/electrical/ignitions/zeeltronic-cdi-ignitions-controllers/accessories-zeeltronic-cdi-ignitions-controllers/
And a Zeel cdi+power valve box is on its way from Granbury, TX. :thumbs:
My YPVS black box has a handwritten "GOOD" on the underside. It looks very good inside, too. I don't see the transistors in it that the 1984s had. Those were a replaceable problem. Anyway, it was replaced at some point.
Might use inline WAGO lever nuts for initial wiring.
Hoping to be able to visit, uhhh someone nearby, to have him load in his fave RZ curves into it before install.
the solder joints went bad ont he 84 boxes before anything else. the trick was a hose clamp and a bolt. it stressed the box and would make it work, ask how i know ;) sure we can load the curve in, but the one it comes with is good for sure.
I didn't know the Zeel was pre-loaded with anything useful.
John loads a stock program into his "1984" cdi box, which is not what I got.
I remember Tim saying your fave RZ curve made a significant difference.
Currently seeing the black/white wire for engine shut-off on the Zeel schematic and seeing the same color in the the original servo controller plug, (not cdi), wondering if it really wires into the Zeel.
the colors are different. when i did mine, i got a full vintage connections kit and made a harness to direct plug it in. im not sure where you got yours but i think they come pre loaded with an rz curve from borut.
Quote from: 1976RD400C on August 03, 2025, 05:58:07 AMhttps://www.economycycle.com/product-category/yamaha-rz-350/electrical/ignitions/zeeltronic-cdi-ignitions-controllers/accessories-zeeltronic-cdi-ignitions-controllers/
Thank you!
Quote from: m in sc on August 03, 2025, 07:06:30 PMthe colors are different. when i did mine, i got a full vintage connections kit and made a harness to direct plug it in. im not sure where you got yours but i think they come pre loaded with an rz curve from borut.
Mine came in from Economy Cycle. It has 5 programs in it, (but John isn't sure that a suitable YPVS program is inside). One curve mimics stock.
The #2 program looks good, but I'm not clear on how to set it yet. Maybe it defaults to stock and I ground the brown/green wire once to switch it to #2.
Gotta study some more.
^^ That's right, ground the wire for #2 ignition curve. I recently purchased the handheld programmer from Economy and you can change and monitor anything you want. Also, that new controller is going to "park" the power valve in the closed (low speed) position and I think the original leaves it in the open (high speed) position.
Got the cdi/YPVS control module from Economy. The Haase handheld was out on loan, so I wired it in anyway using Wago Levernuts after tinning all the ends and extending the stator pigtail.
It runs better. However, it's lean off the pilot and into the needle.
USB programming cable came in from Economy. Downloaded the RZ program and waded through the learning curve. Think I got it using Mark's curve plot points.
Raised the needles one step and turned in the air screws some.
Since it was raining and sweat was pouring from the heat/humidity, I didn't get to test.
Hoping for the best.
Happy to report that unplugging the thermosensor control and removing it didn't do anything bad. Made more room for the cdi pigtail.
Using the "velcro" cable ties was a necessity. Between them and the lever nuts, I can make changes, including adding shrink tubing later for protection.
there you go. sorry haven't been much help, been sick since Saturday and just useless. Got covid, pretty sure i picked it up at the hospital from my 6 mos lung scan. the irony :whatever: :huh:
Hospitals do suck. Spooky that we can all get a bug like that mid-summer.
Hope it's "just a cold" for you.
I expected to see what was already loaded on the unit and then tweak it, but the software doesn't work that way.
Appreciated the visit either way!
glad it's running better. if its now seeming lean, that confirms it was an ignition issue for a while.
yeah its more than a cold but im fine.
Stock RZ carbs are maybe sensitive?
Raised needles 1 step because it was lean there, and turned in air screws from 1.5 to 1 turn out.
Kid rode it and I listened. Told him to pull enrichener when it got messy.
Report is that it's actually a little rich in the needle range now, so back down 1/2 step is where I go next. Sounds kinda picky, but maybe that's a thing.
Should be going like stink all over the rpm range.
I'll work it out, but if anyone knows about those 26mm carbs being finicky on settings, let me know.
Thats why I put VM30s on mine and never looked back. I have both kinds of 26s. The infernal 48H EPA bridged style and a set of conventional 26s the rest of the civilized world got. I have very little experience with the individual non EPA 26s, but I assume they are like any other VM. The bridged carbs are a compromise at best on anything but a completely stock engine. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary, etc. If I were building another stock or mildly mofified motor it would be flat slides, probably TM32 since I have one brand new one and a shit load of Mikuni brass. My 421 build has Keihin PWK35s on it and they are a whole different animal.
And I digress. Yes in my limited experience the bridged carbs are quite difficult to tune and after 1 time spending an hour trying to access the needles that was enough for me. I gave mine away to a dear friend.
I installed those UFO inserts on my stock carb slides and finally it runs great after spending hours trying to fuss with the needles. They said they fit an RZ but I had to open up the ID of the bottom of the slide to fit them in there. I have them in my VM34 carbs on my 400 and love these things. They make a world of difference, 0-1/2 throttle response is so clean and strong.
make sure the airjet is clear.
Thanks guys. I can formulate a plan now.
Mine are annoying because they seem to have a different slide stroke length. One has a larger gap at idle, but that same one is the last to completely arrive at wide open, slightly.
I have not checked the airjets yet, so there's that.
I have UFOs that should work, too.
They do work very well in the 400, though a little too small in diameter for those carbs.
At least it's down to carb tuning - except it's carb tuning on an RZ.
they are a huge pain in the ass. you might want to consider the pre jetted setup from toomey w the pwks.
Quote from: m in sc on August 29, 2025, 12:29:33 PMthey are a huge pain in the ass. you might want to consider the pre jetted setup from toomey w the pwks.
Shew, Mark. I can only do free stuff right now. Just had a little go at the hospital last week. We were at about the halfway point when a guy rolled up with his PC that showed $25k. Blew past the deductible well before that.
I'm gonna lay low and put in some serious garage time. I'll know how to pull, tweak and reinstall those stock carbs in my sleep. Went much smoother last time when I discovered that moving that electronics panel under the tank made the carb cables/adjustment a LOT easier.
oh I get it. trust me
Finally got jetted as good as it will go, dropping the needles 1/2 step from before.
Apparently the left cylinder is still not producing joy until it feels like it at higher rpm/main jet. Otherwise better than at the beginning of all of this, but certainly not right.
Last time apart, I did not "check the air jet".
Is there an embedded air jet behind a brass "ball" plug in the carb mouth of these unique-to-RZ VM26's?
Mark - I saw you mention to take the emulsion tubes out and put a carb cleaner straw in the air jet passageway and flush it out. Where does that come out the other side?
Can I remove a brass plug?
There are 3 holes in the carb mouth, one is open where the pilot air screws control flow, the other two holes are brass plugged.
Coil and 5k ohm caps are new. BE8S plugs are not, but presumed fresh and ok. They ohm out ok.
The only thing left is that the left carb must need help. The RZ seemingly bogs a lot on one cylinder trying to start off from a stop
Both needle jet tubes are clean - even the little mixing holes on both sides of the brass tubes.
Last desperate attempt will be to hope something is in the left carb air jet - wherever that is. Would love to actually get to get it out to inspect. This has been a major part of the problem all along, and never ironed out.
yup. carbs need a proper cleaning
How can I do surgery on that air jet and passageway, though?
theres a thread on removing the brass ball here somewhere in the tech section or chucks area
I thought that was only an RD400 thing and have done that to drill out the air jet for the much-needed Dave F mod.
Will do some research.
nope same thing. you can tap the housing and plug it back to keep the tune exactly the same after cleaning
Quote from: m in sc on September 04, 2025, 08:13:39 AMnope same thing. you can tap the housing and plug it back to keep the tune exactly the same after cleaning
Good news! Thanks much.
I have a couple extra carb bodies that I can experiment with :thumbs:
time allowing i can def help. I think an m4 or m5 set screw can be used to repugnant it, correctly, after its tapped. DO NOT re seal with jb wrld or a golf tee. ask how I know. (no i didn't do it)
Quote from: m in sc on September 04, 2025, 02:31:30 PMDO NOT re seal with jb weld or a golf tee. ask how I know. (no i didn't do it)
:eek: :dawg:
I'm just hoping to find the smoking gun, probably in the left carb.
Got the dingle ball out of the spare carb body. That orifice is quite small. Easy to see and clean. Pressed in brass jet, looks like.
Drives me nuts that I can't figure out where it's getting its air feed from. There's some 90 degree passageway coming in from absolutely nowhere before the orifice. If that is clogged there's no apparent way to get to it :tough:
Anyone know?
spray thru it see where it lands
i think its supposed to go back up to lines that go tot he stock airbox but i may be thinking of 400's
Found it in the extra carb body.
Yes, must have gone to the original air box through a tortuously routed passage and tubing.
I'm gonna cap that passage off and leave the air jet hole at the mouth open. Looking at the RZ as it sits right now, those holes are wide open to suck dirty air. It was traveling on some dusty roads before I got it.
Looking in that hole on the side, I was convinced it was a blind hole till I sprayed carb cleaner in and it and nothing sprayed back out.
I know that works on 400s and lcs, so should be fine on the rz. :like:
Quote from: m in sc on September 05, 2025, 10:43:30 AMI know that works on 400s and lcs, so should be fine on the rz. :like:
And I appreciate your take on that. Gives me a little more confidence.
Revised the photo. The feed for the air jet is also the bowl vent.
After some thought, I won't cap them externally, but try tying them together so the will be some "capacitance."
'Cuz I'm an expert :busey:
as lomg as they have access to atmosphere its fine
Clear now in both carbs. Hoping that is opposite of what the left side was, but once you drill through the brass ball, it's all a mess in there.
Quote from: m in sc on September 06, 2025, 10:42:02 PMas lomg as they have access to atmosphere its fine
And there's the question. Only real access to atmosphere is the pulsing racing air through the carb mouth. Not exactly quiet atmosphere.
Mikuni did make that available, but pounded a brass ball into it.
Am I overthinking?
Haven't gotten a chance to run it yet.
on the 400s they leave it open typically. worth a try. if it doesn't run right, thrn cap it.