So for years, I've been using cheap box store outboard oil bought by the gallon. Back in my youth it was Lawnboy mower oil. It was free because we sold it at our store. Now that I've got a nice bike with a nice top end on it, let's have an oil discussion. I'm using the factory injection system.
You've all seen the memes:
Cheap oil is fine. Change my mind.
I like Amsoil Interceptor for injected engines. A very clean two-stroke oil.
I use Blue Marble.
Quote from: thatguy on September 25, 2019, 08:33:17 PM
I like Amsoil Interceptor for injected engines. A very clean two-stroke oil.
That's what I use too.
I use mercury quicksilver, Chucks recommendation. 40-1 and I premix.
I use the Supertech brand from Walmart because it's a good deal in gallon quantities. Is there better?...maybe so but my bike doesn't seem to smoke much and ever since I got the jetting "dialed in" and a Vape ignition I think that may have sealed the deal on how great the bike runs. I never seem to foul plugs anymore and they have that nice caramel color. Also I use the stock oil injection as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/C6xZDtS/7128681-B-0108-445-E-AE3-F-2-C90-C4-B05720.jpg)
i set this topic sticky. future oil threads, if any :dawg:, will be combined with this one.
I just bought a gallon of Pennzoil Marine synthetic blend at Rural King for $16. Said on the label it was good for injection systems.
Anyone know of any actual reasons that this should not be used?
:D
https://www.belray.com/industry/powersports/
https://www.belray.com/product/gear-saver-transmission-oil/
https://www.maximausa.com/product/mtl-transclutch-fluid/
https://www.maximausa.com/msds/transmission/MTL%20SDS.pdf
For Injector I used: https://www.shopyamaha.com/product/details/2s-2-stroke-all-purpose-engine-oil?b=Yamalube+Engine+Oils&d=30|30&ls=yamaha-motor-company&dealernumber=
For Pre-Mix I use Honda HP2: http://prohondaoil.com/engine-oils/2-stroke-engines/
I think my attitude about oil may not be popular. I try to determine & use high quality lubricants. I also believe in changing oil frequently. Perhaps I spend a bit more than is necessary, but I feel like it is cheap insurance as compared to worn/seized parts.
I look at Honda as a large company that most likely has a good sized budget set aside for R&D. Their HP2 pre-mix comes highly recommended by a well respected racing Kart engine builder. Engine wear is noticeably reduced with HP2.
I've used all sorts of oil. My bikes not like the caster bean oil, it smells great but I usually foul my plugs with it. Currently using pennzoil cause it's cheap.
RED LINE 2 stroke race oil. None better only cheaper. Polyol Ester Base stock. Beter lubricity and thremal stability than Bean oil which was the best lubrication for 2 strokes but was very dirty as far as carbon build up goes. Red Line has none of the carbon issues .
Rich
I started with Amsoil Interceptor, now run Amsoil Dominator. Interceptor is clear and Dominator is red. Much easier to pick up the level on the dip stick.
I think I may have used it all, except bean oil. Lots of Maxima, Honda, Suzuki, Yamalube, Bel-Ray, Dumonde Tech and whatever was on the shelf in Redding on the way to Laguna Seca in '93. It has all worked fine. I, too, change transmission and four-stroke oil often because a wise man once told me: "Oil is cheap and engines are expensive". I change the 30 wt in my lawnmower (5hp B&S Quantum, in case you were wondering) twice a year, whether it needs it or not. It'll be 32 years old this summer :blah: and I acquired it because someone on the assembly line :blah: put the rod cap on backwards, so it knocked like an old Chevy diesel when it was new. My boss at Sears & Sawbuck had me replace :blah: the whole engine under warranty and didn't care what I did with the original, so you get my long-ass oil story :blah:. What else were you gonna do while sheltering in place? :blah:
Quote from: 85RZwade on March 31, 2020, 02:02:02 AM
...on the way to Laguna Seca in '93.
I assume you went for the USGP? I was there too! :cheerleader: Just watched the race (http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=1772.0) again on Sunday night :patriot:
Yes, rode to Laguna Seca with two buddies and had a great time
Here's a different question.... What 2 stroke oil SMELLS best? 8)
Klotz smells like strawberries. It really does especially the super techniplate. So that's my vote.
I always loved Elf castor. It burnt the nostrils and was nasty to deal with. But the motors ran like clock work.
IIRC, Yamaha required RZ/RD 350 YPVS owners to use only Castrol TTS fully synthetic oil for the warranty to be valid, back in the 80s. At least in Europe,
Myself, I have gottten less picky, and use this:
https://www.biltema.no/bil---mc/mc/mc-olje/2-taktsolje/totaktsolje-syntetisk-2000022980
27 dollars for 4 litres synthetic is a fair price IMHO. Available at least in Scandinavia and the Baltic countries.
Biltema is sort of equivalent to HF or maybe Pep Boys?
Yamalube 2R (or S for inj.). Lots of guys in the KTM MX world use it.
I took a personal oath not to put forth any opinions in "Oil Threads" ... for safety sake.
But this is interesting reading nonetheless... so I share with you all.
http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm (http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm)
I use the amsoil dominator.I have been using it in my Ktm 200 a long time,and that motor shows very little wear.Almost no visable smoke when used in my oilinjected RD. 400.
Started up a very long sleeping 6%(16:1) 150cc premix single machine last year on Blendzall and Avgas, ran well, smelled good.
Drained and tried the Pennzoil multipurpose/outdoor green label and the idle was significantly higher with the same carb settings, thought wtf and threw the original stuff in and sure enough, idle was lower. Ran well, did not smell as good:)
Slowly walked it down to 4%(25:1), its easy to drain/refuel, and exhibited similar behavior. 6% was pretty messy especially with the castor and they are commonly run at 3% with modern oils.
Used gallons of purple Sea and Snow but was never all that impressed with it aside from it being easy to tell it was mixed and years ago ran gallons of the old tcw3 walmart oil at 25:1 in lots of 250cc dirtbikes, dont think I've ever had a solely oil related problem aside from losing an injector line on the RD350.
Quite a few years back I used the weedeater as a test bed and pretty much everything ran good including some nasty used engine oil and ATF, except actual vegetable oil, motor got hot quickly and was way down on power. Smelled like french fries though. Motor still fine years later although I do tend to mix at 33 or 25 and drain it and finish the year on Avgas or E0. Have never had to clean the exhaust screen assuming it has one, last time I turned a mixture screw on it was probably during the testing.
YMMV and all that, make sure you at least use some thing that resembles oil. I'm sure there are differences and some of these motors are hard to replace so use what you are comfortable with.
Avgas is leaded and non ethanol. Really the best fuel there is at least for being stable and reliable. My local non ethanol pump has 110 VP, their pump is super old and it can't go over $9.99. So they sell it for $9.99. Makes me want to take a 55 gallon drum up there.
I think most modern oils are good. I still like Motul products, we had great luck with it in our 100cc karting engines. At one point people were popping engines left and right (more so than usual) and we did some analysis. This was when we were building our own engines (extremely competitive, hard to convey how crazy 100cc engines get). It seemed to us that Maxima oils weren't really working for these engines. Maxima was a sponsor of the series and it was premixed in parc ferme, totally spec. Anyways we went back to the shop and ran these tests and sure enough Motul outperformed the Maxima mix especially so on main bearings. The PTO side main bearing was failing a lot for basically everybody. We did an endurance test. Keep in mind for a 100cc race engine you need about 30 minutes of existence. So that is what we tested for. It was an expensive experiment because once the one main goes the rod is done too, and we did this 10 times. Everybody runs ceramic main bearings these days, perhaps the data isn't as valuable to standard builds (also 22,000 rpm). Maxima oils may be great on steel but less so on ceramic. Eventually we took the data to the organizers and after review it was decided we make a switch to Motul synthetic. The competitors agreed on it. Failures went down by nearly 30%.
It is kind of a specific case study, but it has been burned into my brain and I stick with Motul ever since then.
I use Lucas semi-synthetic because that's what my local shop sells. Seems to do alright.
My opinion is that most oil is more than adequate for the vast majority of machines. Even a high output RD isn't particularly stressed when it comes to oil.
Our karting engines were very extreme, they were expected to work at 5k RPM all the way to over-rev status at 21k regularly (no gearbox and direct drive), and 22k was used generally in a draft. 19.5k was comfortable, 18.7k all day long. We rebuilt top ends after 30 minutes of run time and bottom ends at 2 hours of run time. They simply would not last without those rebuild intervals, and fairly often they didn't last even with those intervals. A rebuild was a few hundred bucks and people would bring 3 practice motors, then check in 3 good motors to parc ferme. Usually 1 qualifying motor good for 20 minutes of qualifying, ten minutes for each session, each session being 30 minutes. You time track conditions and tires and used those 10 minutes wisely. The 2 other motors would last race distance or so. So you get a new motor each race, but split the qualifying motor into the two qualifying sessions. If it blows in the second session, oh well, if it blew in the first you were then going to have to qualify on a race motor and hope for the best. $1000 a weekend on motors if you were building them, quite a bit more if you were renting motors from big builders. $600 a motor per weekend for a top tier engine rental, but it was good factory built stuff. We were able to get 6 factory built engines because we were successful in North America. All we had to do was get them built and source good carbs. We got a factory hookup on carbs from Hubchen (they sent us like 20 carbs with setup advice, all of them homologated but different), between that and the engines we were set. This is why we started to build engines in house, all we had to do was press cranks and hone cylinders. From there we managed to do some fun tricks in various places and we were pretty much some of the best for a while.
Super long story short, Motul. It was just enough better to survive in a fairly extreme environment, but probably not a meaningful difference otherwise. I like it in my RD because I haven't fouled a plug in years, but I suppose my carb tuning isn't far off either so that doesn't mean much.
Red Line ! Thats all I have to say
Quote from: racerclam on August 10, 2022, 07:02:36 PMRed Line ! Thats all I have to say
I agree! I used this the 1st year RB designs did his magic and it was awesome.
Worried?, try 25:1 and rejet. Doesn't hurt to run high octane non=ethanol. if you can afford it in tandem. The only pump i know VP fuels is in Salem, so that's a bit far, failing that 92 non ehtanol in the RD400, stock pipe keeps things in check.
1. Redline $$$$$race full synthetic @ 25:1!. If you want to cruise +85 on the freeway, best seat of the pants. smells racy too...added plus w/ that beautiful red color....gokart rated for high rpm if i remember correctly and those are AIR cooled for the most part...love this , but expensive.
2. Amsoil Dominator
3. Amsoil Interceptor. I can honestly...trust me....haha. say that this runs much cleaner than yamalube...easier
cleanup on piston tops and exhaust ports.
Note RB Designs recommended yamalube 2R years ago. Haven't really tried it.
I use a lot of 2t oil in my dirt bike, CR250. Since it has a powervalve, a non gummy synthetic is the best option. R50, Maxima K2, Motul 800, redline are all good options.
For the RD, I will actually be premixing a similar potion. R50 or Maxima Castor 927... The 927 is fine for a non powervalve engine in my opinion. Good smell, good protection. I will probably run that in the aircooled...