Trying to set timing today on my 78 RD400. When i hook up my test light to either side the light stays on when i open the points. I did unfasten the gas tank and lift it a little and slid it back to make it easier to get the dial indicator in. The only way i can get the light to go out is by disconnecting the lead from the points. Tried a multimeter as well same thing. Any thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqardto3Kbs&
Try this. Hear the spark crack to check, then set with a timing light. Obviously set to your desired timing mm point.
Good Video. I'm just trying to check static timing . I am apparently shorting out somewhere. I should not have continuity with the points open but i do. I'm guessing my problem is under the gas tank as i lifted it up and pulled it back some. Draining the gas now so i can pull the tank and take a look. Absolutely hate the cross-over hose set up :bang:
thanks, thats me. :whistle:
disconnect the condensers. :twocents: literally, just unground them and put something there to insulate them. should work.
I removed the condenser completely. I pulled one of the points off and checked it in my hand to make sure the insulating washers weren't the problem. It is both sets of points. Never seen this before. Normally, hook clip my light to the little bolt clamping the lead to the points and when i open them, the light goes off. :umm:
So i just kept disconnecting wires till i got to the Kill switch. When i turned the kill switch to "off" it worked like it should - test light on when points are closed, goes off when they open. Yeah, I'm getting a little older, and short term memory is probably not what it used to be, but i don't ever remember having to have the kill switch in the off position to set timing before.
Derp.
Test light clip on points stud, test light needle probe thing on batt pos. Light should go out when points open.
did you figure it out?
Quote from: Premiumjo on August 22, 2020, 07:00:08 PM
So i just kept disconnecting wires till i got to the Kill switch. When i turned the kill switch to "off" it worked like it should - test light on when points are closed, goes off when they open. Yeah, I'm getting a little older, and short term memory is probably not what it used to be, but i don't ever remember having to have the kill switch in the off position to set timing before.
Derp.
Just to be 100% clear, are you using a regular test light, or some kind of test light device with its own battery?
I had the same exact problem when I did my static timing on my 77RD.
Here's a video I found on youtube showing the issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq3bMRn2xyU
What I ended up doing was disconnecting both point leads and the condenser wires and then and only then could I get it to static time properly.
Good Luck!
Unless you have a good set of points and condensor, it's going to be really difficult to set your timing. I had the issue of when I would tighten down a screw, it would throw off my timing a few MM which was either advance or retard the crap out of it. A lot of patience and a solid voltmeter or timing light would be the best option to use with the dial indicator.
get it close static, and verify timing marks, use a timing light afterwards. no substitute will work better. That's just a fact. :twocents:
Quote from: Premiumjo on August 22, 2020, 05:20:43 PM
Good Video. I'm just trying to check static timing . I am apparently shorting out somewhere. I should not have continuity with the points open but i do. I'm guessing my problem is under the gas tank as i lifted it up and pulled it back some. Draining the gas now so i can pull the tank and take a look. Absolutely hate the cross-over hose set up :bang:
There are some awesome quick connect ones from Economy Cycles: https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rz-350/other/misc/quick-disconnect-fuel-coupling-dual-shutoff-in-14-or-516/ currently have this on my 75 RD
I've personally just got a couple of shut off valves and wired them into the line to help with this issues on my other 73 RD. I know the burden, just make sure you have hose clamps for those fuel lines.
Quote from: m in sc on August 31, 2020, 10:09:54 AM
get it close static, and verify timing marks, use a timing light afterwards. no substitute will work better. That's just a fact. :twocents:
Once, I experienced an RD350 that was running badly. Timed it with a test lamp multiple times. When using a timing light (strobe lamp), I could see the ignition timing fluctuating back and forth. It turned out the outer main bearings were shot, so crank wobble would cause erratic timing.
So static timing is just a starting point, as Mark already pointed out.
Timing light seems like sounds advice. When I removed the condenser, the right side wire just fell off and there were several cracks in the insulation. I ordered a new one and some sudco points from a place in Ohio. Nearly 2 weeks to get to eastern PA.
I could have walked there and picked them up faster. :bang:
yeah. who cares when it fires at 1 rpm? :dawg: I get it, i have 2 central tools sets myself and they get it really close, hell, i even have a dwell meter. however, light is the most accurate.
Besides having to block open the opposite set of points to get the test light to go out on the side i'm trying to set
(having the same problem as Forexer and NEVER had this problem with this bike),
it won't run on the right cylinder.
Quote from: forexer on August 31, 2020, 05:34:17 AM
I had the same exact problem when I did my static timing on my 77RD.
Here's a video I found on youtube showing the issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq3bMRn2xyU
What I ended up doing was disconnecting both point leads and the condenser wires and then and only then could I get it to static time properly.
Good Luck!
I have very weak spark on the right side (new Iridium plugs). I swapped the orange and grey leads going to the coils and the right coil produced a strong spark and the left coil was weak so I'm assuming i can eliminate the coil as the problem. The condenser is new and the points seem to be in great shape. The reason i was dicking around with it in the first place was because it ran on one cylinder one morning when i was going to ride to work. That night i pulled the plugs, checked for spark (ok) and took it for an 8 mile ride. It ran fine. Next time i tried to run it, it was back to one cylinder. So here I am. Electrical shit makes my brain hurt.
Any thoughts on my next step?
I would replace your point or upgrade to a electronic ignition like VS dyna s. If you want to run the HPI or VaPe system that would be a good upgrade too, you can run batteryless
If both coils " checked good for resistance " per the service manual then I'd purchase some new points and a new condenser from Economy Cycle and then you'll be good to go - OR - break out the wallet and purchase an electronic ignition
"New" points can be shit right out of the box. NOS Yamaha fixed my R5 instantly. There's a thread on the forum about different part #'s for the actual contact breaker specified for other bikes that work fine; much cheaper.
I actually bought new points, but the pivot pin is much smaller than the hole on the adjustment plate so i didn't install them. Guess i'll find some NOS ones.
I gave up on the OEM condenser and bought individual ones from Autozone. This resolved my spark problem on multiple RD400s I've own.
Rob
I swapped the points and I got a good spark on the right side. So now I have new points and condenser installed, timing set at 2mm BTDC and new plugs. Spark still noticeably weak on right side. Started it and it runs like shit on the right cylinder. I noticed the right side points are arcing a lot ( not at all on the left). Do I have a grounding issue? I tested the coils and they both show the same resistance and really close to the specification. When I swapped the leads, the right coils produced a good spark so I think the coils are ok.
Killin me.
If it is arching a lot, your condenser may be bad. Try swapping your condenser to see if the arching switches. If so, you can eliminate that issue by getting a new condenser from the auto parts store. They are like 5-8 dollars.
^ yup.
In my experience a working old condenser is better than a new questionable condenser....
I tried flipping the condenser. Same thing. Then I switched it back the way it was and it ran on the right clyinder and the Left was arcing. Complete opposite of what I had. Not sure what's going on here. Maybe I'll take Czakky's advice and try throwing the old. condenser back on.
strange.
I gave up on 40 year old ign electronics. coils, plug caps, wires, condensers, and points. all wear and have shelf life. even points.. the heels dry out.
I would try measuring the voltage at the coils +. With the points closed, putting a load on the circuit, see if it is ok on each coil.
That's very odd. Part of the reason why I went to electronic ignition, but I've had points work flawlessly on some of my bikes. We will get to the bottom of this.
i recently had issues on my t500. turned out to be the actual wire in the harness powering the coil was bad, was intermittent and would cause one to come and go here and there. Not the connection, the actual wire.
In any case, supplying the coils directly from the battery, via a fuse and a relay is the best option for any non-cdi RD ignition. The original coil power has a rather convoluted path from battery to coils.
How about lifting the head and setting timing ? is it a better / easier way to set timing ?
why would you take the head off? the plug is centered, use a dial gauge.
Sure, just saw someone taking off the head in a timing video which made me thinking !
I've seen people take off heads to time as well but it makes life way easier to just get a dial indicator, find your point and set your timing to that.
Sure, thanks
Reviving this old post.
I thought i had this fixed, but i cant seem to set the point timing on either side without disconnecting a coil wire or propping open the opposite side points. When one side is closed, the other side goes to ground through the coil, the ballast resistor, and the opposite side points. If i unplug either coil wire or prop open the opposite side breaker point, it works as normal (test light goes out when points open). When i put a meter on the red wires coming out of the ballast resistor, i have continuity. Is this normal? Never had this problem before.
https://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=4044.0
video with test light
Thanks for the link. Really good instruction. I've never set the points with the ignition on. I've always just used a continuity tester or a meter. With the 12 volt bulb with the 2 leads, one clips on the points terminal, where do you connect the other lead?
Thank you.
is there a video of someone setting up the timing on a Dyna Vintage smoke iggy ? :umm:
Quote from: Premiumjo on May 21, 2022, 11:32:26 PM
Thanks for the link. Really good instruction. I've never set the points with the ignition on. I've always just used a continuity tester or a meter. With the 12 volt bulb with the 2 leads, one clips on the points terminal, where do you connect the other lead?
Thank you.
Good ground. With key ON, light should be on with points OPEN, then light OFF when they close. This uses the 12 volts from the battery through the coil primary to operate the light. The plugs should fire as the points open (light goes OFF) and the field in the coil rapidly collapses. The coils might get warm and this will run the battery down if left hooked for long.
I have built a points test box with its own 9 volt battery, an LED, and a piezo buzzer. The buzzer allows me to not have to watch two things at once, and the box is used with the key OFF.
Thanks. That is how I've always done static timing. I use a light with a battery in it and the light goes out when the points open. Never had the issue where the right side goes to ground when the left points are closed. Gonna put everything back together and see if I can get both sides to spark
It happens on a GoldWing GL1000 with two sets of points for the four cylinders. We just put a piece of plastic between the points we aren't setting.