I am running a power dynamo ignition currently with no battery. I am also using a electronic tach/speed which is apparently not happy with the voltage coming off the regulator(not a consistent 12v) so it seems like I will be needing to add a battery.
What are some good options for a small battery? I have looked at the antigravity lithium battery's and they would probably fit the bill. Any experience with them?
I know nothing about that charging system.
That said, I run a 5k mah RC battery. I've got 5 years on it. With LEDs it's been more than fine. I have the HPI kit and plan to run the same batter with it.
I'm on mobile but can provide a link to battery if you are interested. The antigravity battery has no advantages, IMO. It's just way more expensive.
I'll take a link to what you are running when you get a chance. What is your headlight draw?
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-5000mah-4s1p-14-8v-20c-hardcase-pack-1.html?queryID=6c9aa0174264e5fb15ebc80501db8f14&objectID=74826&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products
I've also run half that mah without issue, just don't leave the ignition on (with excited field). The charging system will blow the fuse if I run a 5 amp fuse. If I run total loss, a 5 amp fuse is fine. I run all LED's.
I can't remember what my headlight draw is exactly, I am guessing less than 2a (probably closer to 1a). I built it custom with an LED panel at the time (6 plus years back)... I do know that in modern terms my headlight is pathetic, though it's still better than stock...
The Turnigy is a really solid battery. I generally check it's balance twice a year. It's never out of range. Any reasonable modern charging system should be friendly. I've let it sit without use up 6 months and it never changes charge wise. My garage is only somewhat heated and I live in Pittsburgh.
I do recommend exercising caution with these setups. I worked up to it slowly...
Good choice. I use a smaller 1,300 4S on our drag bike to run tacho and shift light. The rest is a self energizing ignition and a bicycle rear lamp and that's it, but as you mentioned, it cannot be charged by the stock charging system. Bench chargers are cheap and can also be used to balance the cells and charge regular lead batteries too.
BTW, if it goes completely flat, there's a good chance 2 or more of the cells will not come back from the dead, and you can guess how I discovered that.
I prefer the soft case options but they need enough volume because they expand more than one might expect.
And never hit the battery or throw it across the room.
Im running a small sealed alarm battery, I think 3ah
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 02:22:15 AM
Im running a small sealed alarm battery, I think 3ah
I run these on every kickstart bike I own.
They're a common, easy to find battery.
I use either 2.5 or 5ah size, and they're deep cycle so you can charge a phone or something off of them.
On my RD350 with Powerdynamo, I use a Super B LiPoFe battery. Small and light, 450 g or 1 pound. Had it for nearly 10 years, no probs at all.
https://www.super-b.com/en/products/andrena-12v2-5ah
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 02:22:15 AM
Im running a small sealed alarm battery, I think 3ah
the last one i had in the white rd lasted
8 years.
Here's the charger I use.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/imax-b6-dc-charger-5a-50w-copy.html?queryID=&objectID=53604&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products_hbk_price_stock_2_group_0_asc
It's a great charger for the price. I know AntiGravity and some other places sell their balance chargers for like $100 or more.
There are some really nice batteries out there with onboard battery management boards, where they balance themselves. The alternative to that is to buy a battery management board from like Aliexpress and wire it up.
This is the 2.2mah pack I used very successfully. Keep in mind I run a wind mill rectifier and regulator (based on mark's F150 thread i think) of my own making, but it's all modern solid state equipment (and also very cheap).
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-2200mah-2s-35-70c-lipo-pack.html?queryID=&objectID=30638&indexName=hbk_live_magento_en_us_products
I used Turnigy batteries years ago in model helis. As with most from China, you are the quality control but theirs were as good or better than the high priced brands. Lots of othe good things on their site like high current gold plated disconnects.
I believe they have warehouses in Germany and USA.
Quote from: m in sc on September 10, 2020, 07:28:04 AM
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 02:22:15 AM
Im running a small sealed alarm battery, I think 3ah
the last one i had in the white rd lasted 8 years.
Only thing I dont like is the spade connectors
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 10:13:31 AM
Quote from: m in sc on September 10, 2020, 07:28:04 AM
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 02:22:15 AM
Im running a small sealed alarm battery, I think 3ah
the last one i had in the white rd lasted 8 years.
Only thing I dont like is the spade connectors
That's actually one of the things I like about them.
Quote from: m in sc on September 10, 2020, 07:28:04 AM
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 02:22:15 AM
Im running a small sealed alarm battery, I think 3ah
the last one i had in the white rd lasted 8 years.
As for weight, even a 3Ah lead acid (agm, gel, etc) is pretty heavy IMHO.
If, say a 1 Ah LiPoFe battery was available, it would be more than enough to operate the relay for a Powerdynamo to work with stock ignition lock and kill switch, and it would weigh around 200 g or 6-7 ounces.
I dont really think that the pound or so that my battery weighs really makes any difference. on my bike. Having a hunk of lithium under my nuts will bother me though. On a new bike with a modern charging system, maybe. Having to charge the battery when I get home with an external charger, way to inconvenient.
Somebody posted a while back after a small lithium type battery went up in flames while he was riding. The damage was only minor as he pulled the burning hunk out and cooked his hand, but it could be a quick way to loose a bike.
on the bike i really care about weight on, there is no battery. :toot: and maybe 10 feet of wiring total. :celebrate:
Quote from: m in sc on September 10, 2020, 01:13:22 PM
on the bike i really care about weight on, there is no battery. :toot: and maybe 10 feet of wiring total. :celebrate:
I have very little electrical on this. Headlight, led tail/brake light and a horn. I really don't need a battery other than getting the speedo to work.
thats why i went with the trailtech ac unit with internal battery.
is the horn required for state inspection?
I use a small lead sealed alarm battery
Quote from: m in sc on September 10, 2020, 02:51:59 PM
is the horn required for state inspection?
It is along with a bunch of other stuff I don't have on the bike. I never really planned on getting it inspected anyways.
I did figure it is probably useful to have so I put one on.
Quote from: rodneya on September 10, 2020, 01:06:05 PM
I dont really think that the pound or so that my battery weighs really makes any difference. on my bike. Having a hunk of lithium under my nuts will bother me though. On a new bike with a modern charging system, maybe. Having to charge the battery when I get home with an external charger, way to inconvenient.
Somebody posted a while back after a small lithium type battery went up in flames while he was riding. The damage was only minor as he pulled the burning hunk out and cooked his hand, but it could be a quick way to loose a bike.
I actually "cooked" a Shorai "lithium" battery, when the voltage regulator on my Ducati ST2 fried on the Autobahn between Hamburg and Bremen. I guess the constant high-ish cruising speed played a part in that incident. Anyway, the voltmeter read up to 20 V, and the bike misfired badly. The top of the battery had come off, and some kind of gel came ooziing out, and the smell was really funky. But far from any fire as far as I could tell. The near by Ducati expert, Rudiger Kaemna installed a new regulator and a new LiPoFe battery. And said they never heard about one failing in the way mine did, and never experienced any fire. In fact, they hardy sold any lead batteries any more, this was in 2014. So I do not worry too much about any potential fire hazard associated with Lithium type batteries. They never cause acid spills, and do not release H2 during charging.
Have you tried running a battery eliminator like a Bat-Pac? If you run a permanent magnet system like a Power Dynamo, now called Vape, without a battery a capacitor is needed to even out the voltage.
1. I've ran a batpack on my RZ for years with no battery and no issues.
https://shop.revivalcycles.com/bat-pac-battery-eliminator/ (https://shop.revivalcycles.com/bat-pac-battery-eliminator/)
Full disclosure, I work for Revival. I'm not really concerned if you buy it from us or elsewhere.
I like the Bat-Pac over other capacitor options because of the packaging design with allows it to be discreetly wire tied to a frame tube under the seat. And it works, they have a lifetime guarantee from the manufacturer.
2. Shorai claims that their lithium batteries can charge at 14.8v but all other manufacturers that I'm familiar with state 14.5v is the max. That .3v isn't a lot but over an extended period it will shorten the lifespan of the battery to months or maybe a year. If the regulator is out of spec and allowing higher voltages, 15+ then it can cause a cascading meltdown within the battery which makes for a terrible mess and can produce a huge voltage spike that will fry any electronics that are not properly fused.
the new vape voltage regulators have a capacitor built in already. (the non finned ones). just fyi. fwiw, these should also work on an HPI IF you float the ground on the backing plate for a 2 wire ac output. ;)
Do you have a Batteries Plus store nearby? I've used their sealed alarm batteries in a couple of bikes. https://www.batteriesplus.com
Thanks for the replies. I just ended up going with one of the antigravity batteries, made in the USA sold me on it.
Here is why you don't put a LiPo RC battery under your seat. (ignore the idiots).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrsoMsEMNU. Skip to 5:50 for the action.
This results from an overcharge. Wrong current, wrong voltage, or charged above capacity. A dead short can do it also.
Probably 9 times out of 10 the battery is going to puff up, split it's cover, spew smoke, and spit out a nasty solvent-based liquid (or gel) that smells sweet like weird fruit candy. The 10th time it goes incandescent and spews flames like a rocket engine. Nothing will stop it until the energy is expended. I've seen it. Inside my house. No way would I ever put a LiPo under my seat. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) are somewhat safer.
No RC batteries!
IR8D8R
I just skipped to the good bit so I didn't hear them say it but I assume those are NiCads?
Quote from: IR8D8R on October 14, 2020, 07:24:59 PM
Here is why you don't put a LiPo RC battery under your seat. (ignore the idiots).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrsoMsEMNU. Skip to 5:50 for the action.
This results from an overcharge. Wrong current, wrong voltage, or charged above capacity. A dead short can do it also.
Probably 9 times out of 10 the battery is going to puff up, split it's cover, spew smoke, and spit out a nasty solvent-based liquid (or gel) that smells sweet like weird fruit candy. The 10th time it goes incandescent and spews flames like a rocket engine. Nothing will stop it until the energy is expended. I've seen it. Inside my house. No way would I ever put a LiPo under my seat. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) are somewhat safer.
No RC batteries!
IR8D8R
It's just like anything, it's all about managing risk. Low cost battery management modules are available, so you could protect it from over/under charge fairly easily. I ran a small discharge breaker on my battery for a while that would turn the power off under 10.5V. I kept leaving the ignition on when I'd go in stores so it saved my ass a few times. The problem with that system is that it had a small parasitic draw and if I didn't ride like once a week it would drain the battery. So then I just went to straight lipo but with a modern regulator. It charges right at 14.7V all day long, and I can monitor that via my dash. My regulator blew up about 6 weeks ago, I was worried the battery might be bad, but it wasn't. I hacked a new regulator on in the parking lot of the brewery where it broke down, they let me charge battery with my balance charger, and after a beer and some nice relaxation rode the bike home without issue. In the five complete years with that Turnigy RC battery there was probably a much great chance of getting hit by a drunk driver than the pack exploding. I get that it can happen, but the risk is quite low assuming the proper precautions and systems are in place.
thats a cool science project and all. but I'll take less complex, zero risk on an alarm battery any day. :twocents:
I charged it at too high a rate for just a few minutes and got the crap scared out of me. The flames, smoke, and fumes were just crazy, like fireworks.
(https://i.ibb.co/MfXNY0p/batteryburn.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Quote from: 1976RD400C on October 16, 2020, 06:12:57 AM
I charged it at too high a rate for just a few minutes and got the crap scared out of me. The flames, smoke, and fumes were just crazy, like fireworks.
(https://i.ibb.co/MfXNY0p/batteryburn.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Even crazier if it was to go thermonuclear right under you nuts.
Ill stick to my 3ah (2.8lb) alarm battery.
I'm pretty sure that Ballistic Batteries are/were not LiFePO4, maybe NiCad, way more volatile. A cascading meltdown in a LiFePO4 will smolder but shouldn't catch fire. I presume this is in part why Ballistic folded, that coupled with no campaign to educate the public about charge tollerances.
they had extensive directions with them, i had run a few in the past on other bikes. Just really not worth the potential of mayhem or, in some cases, cost, to save a lb or 2. There's other ways to achieve that weight savings especially on a vintage bike. Heck, some of the ducatis and triumphs would get a 'no start' from li-ion batteries , known issue due to the wave form not being recognized by the ecu. Saw that 1st hand 2x. IF i were to run one, it would be on a modern bike with a more stable charging system. even then... meh.
The only reason at all that I see for a Li battery is if you are using one of the Antigravity small case or something similar in a situation where you absolutely have to have the smallest battery with the most CCA possible.
And on a kickstart the only bike, I see little benefit at all.
For my bike it fits in the space that I had where an alarm battery wouldn't. Nice!
In race cars we've be able to reduce the battery weight by some 20lbs using a modern chemistry batteries. That's absolutely huge in racing terms. On bikes, yes it's a much smaller reduction, but it's also a dirt cheap weight reduction. I paid close to same for my battery as everybody else pays for their alarm batteries (actually it's $5 cheaper than the alarm battery in my wifes RD125), but my battery is 2lbs lighter. Try that with carbon fiber or Ti. To save 2lbs with either of those options would cost hundreds if not thousands. Wheels, brakes, pipes? All of those pound for pound of savings are likely more expensive too.
So in summary, you old codgers can codger, i'll be over here trying to blow my nuts off. I've been promising my wife a vasectomy anyways.
Having a body weight of 145 rather than 210 helps when it comes to racing too. :haw:
old codger here. 243 lbs street legal, no battery. :haw:
burned bikes dont run well. just saying. :wave:
I had one of those ballistic batteries, I even bought a special charger (Authentic Skymax) for it. Thing was junk in the matter of a month. Wasted 50 dollars.
Just make your motor put out more power, then the extra 2lb battery, or even 243lb rider wont matter.
i'm not 243 lbs just to be clear! :eek: :dawg: (the bike is). :vroom:
Quote from: m in sc on October 18, 2020, 05:24:01 AM
i'm not 243 lbs just to be clear!
LOL, thought you have suffered a lockdown weight gain :dawg:
Just found out this morning the small 12v 8ah alarm battery fits inside the battery slot perfectly for a Suzuki T500 and it also has room for storage on top of the battery if you were to put a small partition in there. It's a cheaper option than getting a stock battery size.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61e0Bj0aURL._AC_SL1000_.jpg)
just pick up some of the smaller blade terminals. :toot: