This will not be a build in the typical sense; as this bike came to me restored, complete and running. However, it had some issues that made it run poorly and it had no power. When I first got the bike I didn't care for the old school Hot Rod satin black theme. I originally wanted to do a race replica. But then the look started to grow on me and I began to see it for what it could easily be. So, the overall goal of this project is to build a total sleeper that is a blast to ride on the street. A bike that is understated and perhaps borderline boring, visually, but something that will surprise the unsuspecting Supersport squid (we have a surplus of them around Daytona) as it pulls away from traffic light. Please let me know your thoughts. Suggestions are welcome and wisdom is always appreciated.
Short term goals are:
-Sort out existing Vape ignition and make programmable
-New pipes
-Porting
-(+5mm) longrod conversion
-Fresh bore/banshee pistons
-Nikasil cylinder plating
-Reshaped OEM heads for modern pump gas
-V-force reeds with spacers
-New intake manifolds with crossover or boost bottle
-VM28 carbs bored to 29.5 with UFOs and divider plates
-520 chain conversion
-Upgrade suspension
Long term goals:
-Weight reduction
-400 transmission
-Programmable fuel/oil injection
A set of flat slides rather than the Ufo's and dividers is a better option if you are porting and putting on better pipes.
maybe a brake upgrade, it will also help with the weight reduction.
This was basically my plan with my recent LC resto. Stock appearance with (very) hot motor.
I had RB offset bore my TDR's TM28ss out to 29.5mm and install his divider plates. No complaints, and prob the best choice for that bike, but if I was working on an aircooled RD I'd def sell the stock carbs and buy a pair of VM30 or PWK28.
pwk30 and a programmable ign box. (zeeltronic). big front brake
I think your short term goals are pretty good but wonder about replacing the cylinder heads. My experience with the RDs has always been to try to improve cylinder head cooling; fashioning ducts to direct air over the heads, running Daytona Special heads on conventional 400 engines, and even welding on additional fins (early in the game). You appear to have DG, or some other special, heads on the engine. Why not have those combustion chambers reshaped to meet your current needs?
Changing pipes, porting and V Force reeds is a good idea. I don't like boost bottles but the crossover is helpful in smoothing out the engine. I have used VM 28s bored to 29.5mm for years and like them very much but many, many guys of the forum are using flat slides now and are happy with them. I have Lectron's on our Spondon TZ and they are very crisp out of the corners and work well.
Save the 520 chain conversion until you get the 400 transmission but that is worth the effort too.
I think weight reduction and keeping the bike look stock will be kind of difficult. Replacing wheel rims, the brake disc, etc will do some but to keep it looking stock will probably keep it kind of heavy.
Lyn Garland
Thanks for the suggestions. I put flat slides on a 400 I had, and liked them a lot. They definitely improved driveability and throttle response; especially at lower RPMs. Based on many hours of reading, there seems to be a consensus that the Mikuni VM's with UFO's and divider plates can perform as well as flat slides. I'll admit, I'm a bit skeptical; but I'm willing to try. I do realize that trying to reduce weight while keeping the stock look is going to be a challenge and the reason I listed it as a long term goal. Fortunately, access to, and relative affordability of, super lightweight materials has never been better. We'll see how it goes.
Random background question, do the hooks that the weedwackers sit on hinge as your garage door opens? I find that set up amusing for some reason 8)
Quote from: Djg8493 on February 07, 2021, 05:00:47 PM
Random background question, do the hooks that the weedwackers sit on hinge as your garage door opens? I find that set up amusing for some reason 8)
I was wondering the same thing.
Quote from: Djg8493 on February 07, 2021, 05:00:47 PM
Random background question, do the hooks that the weedwackers sit on hinge as your garage door opens? I find that set up amusing for some reason 8)
Yes, they go up with the door and hang overhead. I've become a fan of hanging things up wherever possible. It leaves more usable floor space and makes it easier to sweep or vacuum.
I missed that the first time around; clever solution :thumbs:
I did this with bicycles several years ago and wouldn't you know it, had room for another motorcycle. :guinness:
Quote from: Inov8 on February 07, 2021, 11:51:48 PM
I did this with bicycles several years ago and wouldn't you know it, had room for another motorcycle. :guinness:
That welder is an absolute beast
All of the lighting in our garage is two-bulb fluorescent bins (converted to LED) suspended from chains and plugged into outlets in the ceiling wired to the switches. I've managed to store all sorts of things above them.
Quote from: 85RZwade on February 07, 2021, 11:19:04 PM
I missed that the first time around; clever solution :thumbs:
Nice, I like it! It always bothered me the amount of wasted wall space on the back of the garage door.
thats where you hang the nudie pics. :whistle:
Those go on the inside of the cupboard and cabinet doors :rolleyes:
Well, I did say "Suggestions are welcome and wisdom is always appreciated".
As such, I find this to be a suggestion:
Quote from: Djg8493 on February 08, 2021, 02:45:04 PM
Nice, I like it! It always bothered me the amount of wasted wall space on the back of the garage door.
Quote from: m in sc on February 08, 2021, 03:47:30 PM
thats where you hang the nudie pics. :whistle:
And this to be wisdom:
Quote from: 85RZwade on February 08, 2021, 03:58:58 PM
Those go on the inside of the cupboard and cabinet doors :rolleyes:
:bacon:
to totally derail this..
my father, who is currently 81, always had a centerfold or 2 up in the shop. he still does have miss 1964 up, im serious. and a fresh new calendar every year at the back of the shop. never hid it, didn't care, mom was ok with it. Funny when i was a kid and my friends would comeover and be like 'boobs!' and i'd be like 'so?' :dawg:
Quote from: m in sc on February 09, 2021, 03:09:41 PM
to totally derail this..
my father, who is currently 81, always had a centerfold or 2 up in the shop. he still does have miss 1964 up, im serious. and a fresh new calendar every year at the back of the shop. never hid it, didn't care, mom was ok with it. Funny when i was a kid and my friends would comeover and be like 'boobs!' and i'd be like 'so?' :dawg:
It's the white knuckle grasp of conservative, Puritan/Christian sexual oppression that has this country so up-side-down when it comes to openly dealing with human sexuality. Europeans don't have this problem. South and Central Americans don't have this problem. Australians definitely don't have this problem. Hell, our Canuck brothers to the North don't even have this problem. 2021 and the most powerful country on the planet still struggles with open discussion of the basis of human existence. Go figure...............
(steps down from his soapbox) :rant-1:
Ok, the detour was fun; but, back to the build. I got to spend some shop time the last 2 evenings. I got the top end pulled and cleaned and in doing so, I got to revisit a couple of tips I came up with many years ago working on previous bike projects. I though I would share as some may find these trivial bits as useful as I have.
Those of us living in humid climates know that storing a 2 stroke bike without pipe plugs is a big no-no. Worse yet, is storing a bike with no exhaust pipes. Some guys stuff their exhausts using rags, plastic bags, expandable freeze plugs, etc., etc. This is what I found to work well for me.
I had to make a new one as my original was over 20 years old and made from an inner tube I got from the landfill. It blew out as soon as I put a few PSI in it.
You cut up an old bicycle inner tube, tie the ends up with some insulated bell wire and you have a dedicated exhaust stuffer.
Also, a couple of sections of old bicycle inner tube with a wrap of electrical tape or a ziptie make great carb slide/needle condoms. I hate to admit it but I have had several bikes in a suspended state of animation for a year and sometimes more; getting wheeled around to different spots in the shop. Having all manner of junk get piled up next to, around, and even on top of the neglected project. A bit of protection for the relatively delicate and vulnerable carb slide and needle goes a long way. Trying to jet a carb with a bent needle ranks very low on my list of ways to have a good time.
Good tips! I had to store my RD400c project in a shed for a few months this winter. After several rescue projects had spit hulls out the exhaust on startup, I taped the ends of the mufflers with aluminum duct tape. Also stuffed aluminum foil in the air filter box over the inlet to discourage nest-building there. Now, hope to remember to remove it all on first start!
After discussions with a couple of folks much smarter than me, the decision has been made to do a +5mm longrod conversion, corresponding Banshee pistons, fresh bore and Nikasil cylinder plating. As such, these have been added to the list of short term goals.
Thanks goes out those of you that have offered suggestions, wisdom and even a derail or 2. Please keep it coming. Overthinking is a big character flaw of mine and the flow of solid information helps me keeps this project moving forward.
thats going to be sweet. def look forward to this.
back to the diversion: my father is from Germany, your observation is spot on.
Quick update. Got the motor stripped and ready to pull from the frame. A lot of the new parts have arrived. Just waiting on pistons to show up so I can box everything up and send out for boring, porting, head work and cylinder plating. I ordered Spec II Classics from Gary and with a bit of luck everything will arrive back here about the same time. This project has had good momentum up to this point and my goal is to keep that going.
As a fellow 2smoke GT200r project builder, I'm interested in your engine plans. have you ridden the bike before stripping it down? Just that I've been suggested many similar performance upgrades, but feel I need to ride the GT200 in stock format (aside from 350LC Microns to gauge a benchmark. Then any upgrades will be more likely to be noticed.
Following... :)
Ok, it's been a while since the last update but things are getting back on track.
Quote from: NoRiders on February 14, 2021, 05:14:20 PMhave you ridden the bike before stripping it down?
Yes, the bike ran but had no power. This started the snowball effect that finds me doing an engine build in the middle of 10 other projects.
Quote from: NoRiders on February 14, 2021, 05:14:20 PMI'm interested in your engine plans.
No real deviations from anything posted previously; but, if you have specific questions, I'm happy to oblige.
After a lot more research and further discussion with folks who have probably forgotten more than I know about 2 strokes, I've nailed down more details. Since the crank is coming apart to install 400 rods I decided to take the opportunity to upgrade the bearings. I'm going to run Suzuki #09263-22060 on the big end of the rod. These come with a weight penalty due to the greater number of longer rollers. To mitigate the increase in bearing weight, and benefit from an overall lighter rotating assembly, I'm going to use hollow crank pins Kawasaki #13035-1010. See the attached pics to get an idea of differences in mass. I make no claims that my Amazon Warehouse sourced, amateur pharmacist type scale is accurate; so accept these values as reference only. The solid pins shown are Pro-X and not OEM Yamaha but should be representative enough for this exercise. The differences may seem negligible when static but since weight multiplies by the square of the RPM I felt that any practical reduction in rotating mass would pay dividends. Overkill for a mild street bike? Probably; but I could see swapping to a hotter top end at some point. This crank should handle anything I subject it to for a very long time.
As as aside, the Spec II Classics arrived. I was warned that Gary's 3 week delivery estimate translates to 6, in real time, and found this to be the case. However, he does build some sweet pipes; so, worth the wait IMHO. Sure wish he'd do them in a 300 Series Stainless. We discussed it but he's having none of it. Old dog/new tricks/no bueno. I'm happy to see Garrett doing his in Stainless.
Very nice. :cheerleader:
(http://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/MISC-BS/PROPER.gif)
Thanks Mark. That Jack Nicholson GIF may cause me to have bad dreams. :eek:
Quote from: Inov8 on February 07, 2021, 08:41:15 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I put flat slides on a 400 I had, and liked them a lot. They definitely improved driveability and throttle response; especially at lower RPMs. Based on many hours of reading, there seems to be a consensus that the Mikuni VM's with UFO's and divider plates can perform as well as flat slides. I'll admit, I'm a bit skeptical; but I'm willing to try. I do realize that trying to reduce weight while keeping the stock look is going to be a challenge and the reason I listed it as a long term goal. Fortunately, access to, and relative affordability of, super lightweight materials has never been better. We'll see how it goes.
There are a lot of parts where significant weight reduction can be found. Replace front caliper with a repop alloy caliper from EC. Replace the stock master cylinder with a 12 or 13 mm one. I used Brembo. A new MC with integratedbrake light switch, and a single brake line that allows you to remove the oem brake light switch all amounts to one pound, the caliper close to one more. A fiberglass front fender saves several pounds, thinning and drilling the brake disc also helps. Alloy spacers between wheel bearings, and on the RH side on both wheels also help. Stock footpegs and rear brake linkage weighs a ton. Using a later Kickstarter will allow the use of non-folding rearsets. This really simplifies things. I converted my rear brake to cable actuation, somewhat like early TZs. Light and simple. An aluminium handlebar shaves some weight, a Powerdynamo/ VAPE saves a lot of weight, LiPoFe batteries, or a small AGM battery likewise. A single bar end mirror also removes near a pound of weight, compared to oem. I guess a Vitos crankshaft is significantly lighter than oem, due to the flywheel design. If you want to run pre-mix, you could take a mould from the oil tank, and make a much lighter fiberglass side cover to replace it. The OEM battery box and air filter box is also something that can be removed, and replaced with something more minimalistic, Like an Y-boot +K&N and an alloy battery box.
EC or HJC also have a H4 headlight that fits the stock bucket, with a plastic lens instead of glass. Also lighter.
Repop seats from Yambits have plastic bases, and are a lot lighter than one seats with steel base and older type, heavy foam.
Altogether, a stock framed RD should be possible to lighten down towards 280-290 lbs with a full tank, and still look fairly stock.
also aluminum rims and a 520 chain and sprockets. all are rotating mass :like: :like:
Quote from: 747drvr on June 10, 2021, 10:30:27 AM
also aluminum rims and a 520 chain and sprockets. all are rotating mass :like: :like:
Shit, I forgot that. And my RD350 has just that, shouldered Akront rims and 520 chain, with alloy rear sprocket 😁
I even "wasted" some $$ on TI fasteners here and there.......