I finally did it. I got my hands on one of the legendary Japanese 4 cylinder inline 4 sport bikes from the late 80's. It's a 1988 CBR400RR. When I bought it, I couldn't find another model for sale online in the U.S. (eBay, Facebook, RareSportBikesForSale.com). What's wild to me is that I paid $3,000 for it and it had been listed for 2 months. To me, I got a hell of a deal. It runs well, maybe a little rich, but it's so much fun to ride! Handling is superb and turns into corners like nothing! It came with race fairings that I'll be refinishing using the stock reproduction decals. I don't know what it is, but I love old fiberglass race bodywork! For those who aren't familiar with the little Fireblade, they were only sold it Japan. Apparently there were hefty taxes in place for bikes over 400cc, so the Big 4 put a lot of love and then cutting edge tech into their 400cc inline 4's. A good number of these made it into the UK as grey market imports. It has a wicked sound due to the gear-driven cams and it redlines at 14,500. It just wants to be opened up.
This particular bike apparently was brought to the U.S. by a military servicemember who had bought it in Germany while stationed there. It has a title, so it is (thankfully) street legal. It needs the fork seals replaced, so that's up first. I just bought a house with a nice garage space, so working on it will be considerably more enjoyable than my last place. These pics are from the ad as I haven't had the chance to get any pictures of it yet. More to come!
More pics.
thats sweet! I had a 75 400ss... was a turd. I hear those like yours are excellent! congrats! :toot:
Quote from: m in sc on August 13, 2021, 02:28:30 PM
thats sweet! I had a 75 400ss... was a turd. I hear those like yours are excellent! congrats! :toot:
Thanks Mark! Here's some good reading on this class of bikes from MCN if anyone's interested.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/august/sport-400s-zxr400-cbr400rr-fzr400-vfr400/
I had a VFR 400 grey import bike in the mid 90's for a while. Fantastic little bike to ride, but not so great to work on as everything is shoehorned in.
Great find, that'll be so much fun :thumbs:
Most of these japanese 400 were smaller version of 600's we got . I had a few Honda CB-1 400 and the motor was based on the CBR600 F1 1988-90 .
Quote from: zedixe13 on August 14, 2021, 10:20:49 AM
Most of these japanese 400 were smaller version of 600's we got . I had a few Honda CB-1 400 and the motor was based on the CBR600 F1 1988-90 .
Sort of. The US market never got the gear driven cams. One could argue that the CBR600's were based on the 400's. The Japanese never got the 600 to my knowledge and the CBR400RR was the first to carry the CBR badge.
The late 80's-early 90's 400's (and 250's too) were much higher spec than the 600's.
Aluminum frame and swinger, fully adjustable boingers, etc ...
Motor look the same as the CB-1 and CBR600 F1
Quote from: zedixe13 on August 14, 2021, 07:55:26 PM
Motor look the same as the CB-1 and CBR600 F1
It shares some parts, but trust me it's not the same engine.
CBR600 1988 Hurricane
1990 CB-1 400
All I see is engine side covers and that's not enough to tell me the engine is the same. The CB-1's engine code is NC23, the early CBR400's model code. This whole thing is just pissing me off at this point, so this is the last time I'm going to post about this specific topic. If you believe the CBR400 is derived from the 600 Hurricane (even though the 400 was the first CBR) or that it was derived from the CB-1, I probably won't be able to change your mind. Some brief googling will back up what's been said about the pedigree of the CBR400RR. I will say I'm glad that the RR doesn't come with the cheesy Ikea bed frame swing arm like the CB-1 does.
Like Jim said above, the JDM 400s and 2-stroke 250s were way more impressive than anything imported to the U.S. at the time, IMHO. That RR is a great find and worth every penny!
Just rebuilt the forks, de-rusted and painted the front fairing mount. Next I'll be scrubbing the whole thing down as it's quite dirty. Then, most likely, checking the front brake lines. There may be a leak. Either that or the forks were leaking from so badly they got oil all over the left caliper.
Getting right after it-good job :thumbs:
Awesome bike! Love the 400s! Mine's a FZR400 with lots of "R" parts. This bikes relative is the RC30, not some crap 600. Respect!
Thanks guys! The FZR's are nice. I've heard the Kawasaki ZXR-400's aren't aging well and starting to fall apart due to build quality. I'm just happy I was able to get a runner at that price.
Have wanted one for a while be it the CRB/FZR or the VFR style. You are correct these are not the same as the 600's and are not related.
My little TZR250 is the most fun bike i've ridden. Makes a RZ350 look like junk despite 100cc less displacement.
Its all about the overall packaging and small bikes are often a more entertaining ride so you get to push them harder than simply a twist-of-the-throttle 1K superbike in normal riding speeds.
ENjoy!
Agreed! I can wring the neck of my FZR around town and love every minute of it! I have to do a track day to do the same with my Ducati's.
You are so lucky to find one of those bikes in the US. I didn't even try lookin for one. Went straight to the FZR.
And I agree about the 250 2 strokes. I nearly went for a RGV250 but my FZR was a couple of thousand dollars less.
Went to a bike show yesterday and this was for sale.
1990 FZR400RR.
I haven't seen one of these in over 20 years
yeah, a tzr250 to me is about the best one ive ever ridden. maybe one day but im not paying that much for one.. not saying it isnt worth it, just not worth it to me. but damn near perfect. and you're right, makes the rz feel like is made of sticks and twigs and bailing wire by comparison.
Quote from: rodneya on August 29, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Went to a bike show yesterday and this was for sale.
1990 FZR400RR.
I haven't seen one of these in over 20 years
That's a real beauty. How much were they asking for it?
Quote from: The Red Scourge on August 29, 2021, 09:00:44 PM
Quote from: rodneya on August 29, 2021, 12:59:27 PM
Went to a bike show yesterday and this was for sale.
1990 FZR400RR.
I haven't seen one of these in over 20 years
That's a real beauty. How much were they asking for it?
The bike looked to be in really good shape, but I only looked.
Asking about price and making space for a new bike in my garage are almost the same thing to me.
Haha, that's fair. I was just curious because they don't come up for sale often.
Its hard to see in the pic, but there is a phone on the back of the bike. Shoot him a text.
604 947 9008
Hey! I got a swinger off that bike if anyone's interested :celebrate: :celebrate:
We have an older model FZR400 (88 I think) and they are very different to an RZ which we also have in teh garage. The RZ by comparison feels much lighter and mover around more, but the upside is the 2 stroke wail. The FZR is noisy around town but doesn't get much louder as revs rise.
FZR has about twice as much rubber on the road and feels more planted.
Much as I like the CBR250 and 400, the VFR400 is so much sexier IMHO. But your CBR400 is a great catch. Enjoy it.
If you need parts, Japan is the place
https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search?p=nc23&va=nc23&istatus=2&exflg=1&b=1&n=100&mode=2
The build quality of Home market bikes, especially from Honda is in many cases works of art.
I had a NSR250R R5K for a short time, and it was just as high spec as the RC30 was from the same time period.
megazip.net also a good resource; they have a U.S. warehouse
Quote from: 85RZwade on September 06, 2021, 10:41:55 AM
megazip.net also a good resource; they have a U.S. warehouse
Quote from: busa1300 on September 06, 2021, 09:06:12 AM
If you need parts, Japan is the place
https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/search/search?p=nc23&va=nc23&istatus=2&exflg=1&b=1&n=100&mode=2
The build quality of Home market bikes, especially from Honda is in many cases works of art.
I had a NSR250R R5K for a short time, and it was just as high spec as the RC30 was from the same time period.
Thanks! I wasn't familiar with either of those. I'm already running into parts availability issues lol.
Quote from: peaky on August 30, 2021, 08:35:29 AM
Hey! I got a swinger off that bike if anyone's interested :celebrate: :celebrate:
Just posted it in the for sale section—-the FRZ400R swinger.
Progress has been painfully slow recently. Family stuff and work has taken up nearly all of my time. I did finally manage to get the carbs cleaned thoroughly. I bought a big ol' (30 liter) ultrasonic cleaner that helped quite a bit. They look much better than before. This was my first experience having to reassemble an inline 4's carburetors, and man, getting all those springs back in the throttle linkage sure is fiddly work!
Got a couple of your float bowls crossed up.
The drain screw needs to be accessible from the side of the bike
yup. swap 2&4
Haha, you guys have good eyes! I noticed that some time after taking the pics and remedied that before re-installing.
Finally got the wheels prepped and painted. The paint was generally okay, but was chipped around the rims. Initially I used PJ1 Fast Black satin, but their definition of satin is far more matte than mine. The wheel bearings were also an adventure. The rears looked to be factory bearings with the metal dust shield, not fully sealed. Anyways, they were so rusted I had to break them apart to get them out. I sometimes get frustrated with my own process. I really hadn't planned to fully go through this bike. Quick refresh, and go ride. These are the times it pays to get caught up in those small details I suppose.
Decided to repaint the wheels with VHT Roll Bar and Chassis paint (gloss), my general go-to black paint. They came out a little glossier than I'd like, but I'm okay with it. When it eventually get a complete tear down rebuild I'll have the powder coated. Rotors back on and fitted...after forgetting about the spacer that goes between the bearings. I destroyed a good set of wheel bearings by torquing the axle down without that spacer and wondering why it was binding up. Oh well, I've destroyed more expensive things. On to the brakes!
The front brakes were another case of "I'm glad I put in the time to inspect them, just to be sure". Brakes worked great, but line was leaking, so I acquired some braided stainless lines. The calipers were in the worst shape I've encountered yet. Pistons we're close to being seized, seals torn badly. There's damage to both calipers and brackets. I've never seen this before. There are dents all over. I ordered another well worn set off of eBay, and even they had the dents! These are the oldest aluminum calipers I've rebuilt, is this a common thing? I mean, I know the bike had been tracked and needs some TLC, but this is kind of weird to me. I wouldn't think that pebbles or other road debris could damage them like this. I'll try to clean up the corrosion on the originals and use them. If not, I'll paint the black ones and use those.
...
So Ive been steadily working on the CBR, just haven't posted in a while. I cleaned up, sanded and painted the brake calipers. They look good, the gold is a little loud though. Paint right next to brake fluid is a short term solution. When I eventually break it all the way down to rebuild it right, I'll powder coat these.
One of the final issues is a frayed throttle cable. Sourcing a proper one from GF Racing in the UK was looking like north of $60 US, for only one of the cables. It took a lot of trial and error, but I soldered my own cables and it came out really nice.
Got it running and was dumping fuel out of the 1 & 2 carb overflow lines. I'd forgotten to check float height, so I figured it was that. When I opened up the bowl on #1, the float needle had somehow fallen out of the channel! No wonder it was dumping fuel!
I am envious of your progress, Red. You're doing great
Quote from: 85RZwade on July 25, 2022, 10:25:09 PM
I am envious of your progress, Red. You're doing great
Thanks Wade! It feels like very slow progress on my end lol. Once I get all the air out of the brake lines, it'll be roadworthy! Still haven't worked out the lack of instrument backlights though. I am narrowing it down though.
What did the brake caliper pistons look like? Was there any pitting on them? Were you able to find new seals too?
Quote from: Evans Ward on July 26, 2022, 09:36:06 AM
What did the brake caliper pistons look like? Was there any pitting on them? Were you able to find new seals too?
I decided not to replace the pistons at this time. I'm planning to when I get the powder coated in the future. They had some pitting, but just on the exposed area, nothing that touches the seals. Replacement seals are available, but more of a pain in the ass than anything else. Those same Nissin calipers got used for a lot of Honda sport bikes in the late 80's/early 90's (as well as a lot of others). The thing that was tough is that no one seems to use a model number for the calipers (other than Nissin), so you have to search by bike model. First generation CBR600 and CBR1000's used the same calipers, so that's what I used for the seals. Different part numbers from Honda, but same dimensions. I just don't know why they had to make it difficult.
I just got seals for 3 pot tokiko calipers. Suzuki sells them for about 1/3 of what Kawasaki wants. Pretty sure other manufacturers used them as well. but nobody lists any caliper model info.
Quote from: rodneya on August 19, 2022, 10:17:46 AM
I just got seals for 3 pot tokiko calipers. Suzuki sells them for about 1/3 of what Kawasaki wants. Pretty sure other manufacturers used them as well. but nobody lists any caliper model info.
Yeah, I hate that. There definitely a few sport bikes that ran 3 pot Tokicos.
Some parts for sale if your looking
https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/seller/spongebob0817?p=cbr&auccat=&aq=-1&oq=&anchor=1&slider=
Nicely sorted 1989 CBR400RR (CB1 NC27) Tribute "restomod". $8800 Easley, NC
https://greenville.craigslist.org/mcy/d/easley-1989-honda-cb1-cbr400rr-tribute/7595402421.html.
Cosmetically very nice! I'm certainly no expert on these but it looks like someone's pandemic project. Not actually sure what makes this one a "tribute" other than paint. It has some non-original parts including R1 forks.
Possibly this should be in the Ebay and CL watch section but it seemed relevant to this thread.
Not my bike etc.
IR8D8R
Interesting bike for the right person. It looks like a CB1 tribute to the CBR400RR. For that price you could have one imported from the UK. I'm not really digging the paint scheme personally.
Help me out here carburetor masters. So the bike ran great after I cleaned the carbs, but they needed to be synced. It sounded like a V Twin and not an i4. I synced the carbs with the ol' homemade bottle method and it appeared to have even vacuum across all 4 cylinders once I adjusted them. Now it bogs under load and I thought it was a fuel starvation issue at first because it only felt like a bit of a drop in power. Now I can tell it's a full bog. It even backfired when I revved it tonight. Could any of these issues be caused by carbs out of sync or am I dealing with a different issue. Any guidance would be appreciated.
remember, 4 cyl sync as such:
one bank of 2, then the other bank of 2, then synch the 2 banks. ie:
synch 1&2 to each other. then 3&4 to each other.
then, sync left bank to the right bank w the 'middle' screw. it should literally take no more than 5-10 minutes.
sounds like a carbs starving. stock needles? if not, put them back in. also make sure the slides are all lifting on their own and retuning quickly.
Thanks, I'll check that the slides are lifting properly. The sync procedure went pretty well. I followed those steps, it's what's listed in the manual. I haven't changed needles or jets since I've had it. Most probable thing is that they're still out of sync.
Well I got it running. I pulled the carbs and cleaned them again. I'd been using months old gas. I figured it'd be okay since it's non-ethanol. Because I got lazy I wasn't using a fuel filter and it's also possible some manner of particulate got into the jets. While I was there I decided to pull the spark plugs and make sure it wasn't ignition because it got to the point it wouldn't even fire. Lo and behold cylinder 4 had no spark and weak spark on the other 3. I cleaned 'em off as I didn't have time to go out and buy new plugs. After that, it runs great! It even sounds like the carbs are in sync. Hopefully I can get a ride in tonight.
any update?
Yeah, it's running pretty well. The it hangs a bit when revved. That'd indicate a lean condition, right? Other than that, it rips! I always forget how much that engine screams from 8-14,000 rpm.
yup. typically at the pilot adjustment.
Quote from: m in sc on May 04, 2023, 10:04:52 AM
yup. typically at the pilot adjustment.
Ok awesome. I'll start there. It's the base setting of 2-1/4 (I think) turns out.