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The 2-Stroke Garage => Haus of Projects => Topic started by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 03:55:41 PM

Title: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 03:55:41 PM
Hey everyone, new to the forum - 1st post.
So I spent way too much money on this emotional buy. I know it's a POS. I thought I needed a new project...
I've never really done a total restoration on a motorcycle, let alone a 2 stroke, but here goes. Looking at the bike as a whole is overwhelming, so I thought I'd focus on one thing at a time, shelf it, and move on to the next piece. Right now I'm doing the gas tank. So far I've de-rusted it, taken it down to metal, bondo'd the dents, primed and base coated it. I think I'll take off the chambers next.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 04:00:47 PM
Tank shots
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 04:07:46 PM
Down to metal
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 04:11:01 PM
...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 04, 2022, 04:11:12 PM
that's one way. I would suggest tearing it all down and figuring out what needs to eb sent out, what's going to cost $, and what is just elbow grease, and various combinations of these.  You can then tackle multiple aspects. for example, if it need a crank rebuild and cylinder bore, but thats going to eat up $ and time you cant control, send that out as its inevitable (probably) and while waiting do the elbow grease stuff.  etc.

doesnt look to bad as a base of a project at all actually. But whatever your pace is, do that.  :gentleman:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 04:20:51 PM
I'm sure that's the right way. I'm just worried my little peanut brain won't be able to comprehend the exploded version  :umm:
I do plan to make notes and take copious pics.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 04:28:52 PM
Truth is, I know I'll get to a point that I'll be waiting on a part(s), and I'll have to move on to the next thing.
Here's the tank before wet sanding and clear.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 04, 2022, 04:34:19 PM
not saying its the right way, persay, but a good way to stay motivated. tank looks good. and no they arent that complicated, and we can help.  :toot:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: AAAltered on April 04, 2022, 04:45:29 PM
I was right where you are 15 years ago.  The bikes are pretty simple.  Mark is right though, consider tearing down first and sending anything out that needs professional help.  You'll have plenty of time for cleaning, parts acquisition, polishing etc while things like the engine (seals, bore, crank etc), paint, powder coat, chroming, etc etc are dealt with.  Good bones on that bike, stay here and you'll find the help you need.

That also gives you time (during tear down) to learn what you have, and to help you sort/budget/prioritize.

Me, 2007 with an R5 that had sat since 1981.

(https://i.ibb.co/YD8bj4k/07956-EC4-129-E-4-FA2-9-A69-3-D21-E47-D7172.jpg)[/url]
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: AAAltered on April 04, 2022, 05:47:07 PM
BTW. Did it run?  When was the supposed last time it did?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 06:00:36 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I do like to take shit apart! Just gotta have a system I guess.
No clue when it last ran. The guy I bought it from got it in an estate sale, no paperwork. It was last registered in 97. I just registered it as non-op, so I have a pink slip now. It does turn over, and the tranny seems to shift OK. Front brake works a little, rear brake is frozen (or at least the pedal is). The engine and frame numbers don't match.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on April 04, 2022, 06:58:04 PM
Let me suggest a good leak test on the tank before going further on it. I had mine ready for decals when a weep was discovered - luckily inboard of the seam on the bottom. Was able to wrap, mask, and POR15 seal without damage to the paint but was quite lucky at that.

Here is how mine started and came out:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on April 04, 2022, 07:21:59 PM
They will eat at your pocket-book if you let them! Mine definitely has, but hey... every time it blows up, it ends up looking better and better!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 08:25:52 PM
Quote from: pidjones on April 04, 2022, 06:58:04 PM
Let me suggest a good leak test on the tank before going further on it. I had mine ready for decals when a weep was discovered - luckily inboard of the seam on the bottom. Was able to wrap, mask, and POR15 seal without damage to the paint but was quite lucky at that.

Here is how mine started and came out:

Oh God help me. I did have it full to the top with vinegar for about a week (shaking daily with BB's and rocks in it) before doing anything else. The rust wasn't terribly bad, the pic in post #3 is before the vinegar. Maybe gas finds leaks vinegar wouldn't? Your bike is beautiful BTW.
Striker, my pocket book is ready, my wife not so much.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: SoCal250 on April 04, 2022, 10:10:05 PM
Welcome. :cheers: Where are you located? You mentioned "non-op reg" so I was thinking probably Calif.
Looks like this could be a cool project. You've got a Daytona head on that engine. Nice.
Good work on the tank so far :thumbs:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 05, 2022, 01:02:35 AM
SoCal, I'm in NorCal. Solano County, about 30 miles NE of San Francisco. It "only" cost me $80 to put it in my name. No telling what they'll charge me when I go to get it registered for the street. Hope they don't try to get me for 25 years back fees...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: AAAltered on April 05, 2022, 08:06:46 AM
Non matching numbers and a Daytona head.  What's the prefix on the engine serial number?  Is it a Daytona engine?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Alain2 on April 05, 2022, 09:22:29 AM
Get some plastic bins, ziplock bags and a sharpie to label the parts you disassemble, you will thank me later. I believe the only way to budget your build is to disassemble everything to identify what can be repair and what needs to be bought new. I have seen bikes sitting with new paint job because they had no $ for ignition.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 05, 2022, 01:44:44 PM
Quote from: AAAltered on April 05, 2022, 08:06:46 AM
Non matching numbers and a Daytona head.  What's the prefix on the engine serial number?  Is it a Daytona engine?

1A1 is the prefix on both the engine and frame. The guy I bought it from said the carbs are oversized (Mikuni 32-34mm?), and it has S&W shocks. Various stickers on the seat pan: Boyesen power reeds, Eibach springs. Does anybody recognize these chambers?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 05, 2022, 01:52:36 PM
Quote from: Alain2 on April 05, 2022, 09:22:29 AM
Get some plastic bins, ziplock bags and a sharpie to label the parts you disassemble, you will thank me later. I believe the only way to budget your build is to disassemble everything to identify what can be repair and what needs to be bought new. I have seen bikes sitting with new paint job because they had no $ for ignition.


I'm coming around to the total disassembly first approach.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 05, 2022, 02:12:07 PM
looks sort of like my pipelyne chambers. those do sort of  look like vm30 or 32s, (stuffed in stock intakes) motor is probably ported and yes, thats a 2v0 head for sure. Its def a period built piece.. 80s/early 90s maybe. its neat for sure, sombody def spent some time on that bike.

def consider not running that type of airfilter, they do NOT do well on reeded 2 strokes. all foam unis are probably your best option. .02
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: AAAltered on April 05, 2022, 04:06:18 PM
Interesting.  I don't see those exact pipes in the Pipe ID thread.  The riveted cans look different than anything posted....

(https://i.ibb.co/0sRLHs4/9-BCEB321-0-C98-410-E-9-ACF-60-D3-FA30-C50-D.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 05, 2022, 04:11:07 PM
mine are riveted to the outside. (by a po). like said similar but ? and  loud.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 05, 2022, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: m in sc on April 05, 2022, 04:11:07 PM
mine are riveted to the outside. (by a po). like said similar but ? and  loud.

Bummer, I was hoping they aren't obnoxiously loud (but then I have neighbors with Harley's). The innards look like they might be somewhat baffley? They have two seams down the length of the pipe, so two halves welded together. Probably cheaper/easier to make? The headers look dangerously close to each other. I imagine that would make quite a racket.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 05, 2022, 05:21:59 PM
Probably easily fixable.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 05, 2022, 08:07:57 PM
the headers being close isn't uncommon.

mine were modified at some point int he past, so i cant comment on the baffles you have . the id seems really small. winder if they are possibly for a 250? doubtful, just spitalling as i don't know 100% what they are.  dunno.  eventually when you get it running see where they are, it obviously ran on them in the past. .
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 06, 2022, 06:23:43 PM
So the tear down has begun. Pipes are off, they are a little banged up and a lot rusty. One of the studs was actually a bolt - but it threads in and out fine, so I should be able to replace it with a stud. Chucked the pod filters. Got the battery box out. Oil tank is out. Carbs are next.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 08, 2022, 02:21:16 AM
I'm using the Haynes manual, finding some minor errors, and not a lot of pics, but it should suffice? It has me doing some of the engine disassembly before actual engine removal, so that's what I'm doing. Found some bad stuff: the splines on the shifter and shaft are worn bad, the oil pump and surrounding area is covered in rust. Also the clutch operating arm and linkage has oblong holes, and the pin has a deep groove in it. The "generator cover" has a crack near one of the mounting holes. And it's missing 3 of 4 side case dowels.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 08, 2022, 02:27:34 AM
Clutch arm & cover
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on April 08, 2022, 06:45:59 AM
First, throw the Haynes manual as far as you can. Then, seek and download a Yamaha repair manual and a parts manual for your year (graphics seem to be for a '77). Then, purchase a good JIS (Vessell) screwdriver before doing any more disassembly. Many of the parts mentioned are readily available (dowels, etc.) There are vendors online for many parts (Economy Cycle, Yambits, many others). You just need to do the "leg work" to find them. More major parts like the cases/covers will need ebay searching, forums searches, or finding a good welder to repair.

By the amount of rust in the oil pump cavity, I would guess that the bike has been in a flood and never drained after (in that case, the crankcase is probably full of rust, too) or left outdoors for rain water to fill the cavity - for quite some time. Remove the pump and closely inspect it. If no pitting, I would clean the outside and send it to Arrow for a rebuild. If any water made it to the crank area, it will probably need rebuilt.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 08, 2022, 08:51:54 AM
yeah that def looks like it was submerged at some point.  does the crank roll over?

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 08, 2022, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: pidjones on April 08, 2022, 06:45:59 AM
First, throw the Haynes manual as far as you can. Then, seek and download a Yamaha repair manual and a parts manual for your year (graphics seem to be for a '77). Then, purchase a good JIS (Vessell) screwdriver before doing any more disassembly. Many of the parts mentioned are readily available (dowels, etc.) There are vendors online for many parts (Economy Cycle, Yambits, many others). You just need to do the "leg work" to find them. More major parts like the cases/covers will need ebay searching, forums searches, or finding a good welder to repair.

By the amount of rust in the oil pump cavity, I would guess that the bike has been in a flood and never drained after (in that case, the crankcase is probably full of rust, too) or left outdoors for rain water to fill the cavity - for quite some time. Remove the pump and closely inspect it. If no pitting, I would clean the outside and send it to Arrow for a rebuild. If any water made it to the crank area, it will probably need rebuilt.

Got it. I just ordered a Yamaha repair manual, and downloaded the parts catalog from this site. I'll proceed slowly with the Haynes manual. I think (hope) water got into the pump area via the cable port (the cable is broken). The points on the left side don't look near as bad.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 08, 2022, 01:34:30 PM
Quote from: m in sc on April 08, 2022, 08:51:54 AM
yeah that def looks like it was submerged at some point.  does the crank roll over?

Yes, it kicks over. Drained the transmission oil and it looked dirty, but no evidence of water. The crank area remains a mystery for now...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 08, 2022, 01:49:54 PM
pull the jugs. its only 8 bolts. thats where the real story is.

Ive seen bikes sit in a junkyard for 20 years rusted solid in the crank but the transmissions look almost new. 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 09, 2022, 01:12:37 AM
Made some progress. Doesn't look too bad. The left piston looks pretty cooked on top. No major scoring on the cylinders. Lots of gas/oil in the crankcase - maybe that's what preserved things a bit.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 09, 2022, 01:23:44 AM
cylinders, head
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 09, 2022, 01:33:06 AM
Reed valve, intake
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 09, 2022, 01:38:25 AM
more...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 09, 2022, 08:35:40 AM
left piston was on way out at some point, almost sunroofed. (holed). note the metal errosion.  :undecided:  def bore, piston and crank seal time on that topend. But, not terrible overall. I also spot boysen reeds.

regarding the head, doesn't look like its been cut to correct squish, daytona heads need that on non daytona cyls, that will need to be addressed as well in the future.  .02
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 09, 2022, 03:40:46 PM
Quote from: m in sc on April 09, 2022, 08:35:40 AM
left piston was on way out at some point, almost sunroofed. (holed). note the metal errosion.  :undecided:  def bore, piston and crank seal time on that topend. But, not terrible overall. I also spot boysen reeds.

regarding the head, doesn't look like its been cut to correct squish, daytona heads need that on non daytona cyls, that will need to be addressed as well in the future.  .02

Just wanna say thanks for all your (and everyone else's) input and help. I feel like I'm not alone in this journey.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 09, 2022, 04:14:21 PM
Stupid question #x 
Are there any parts (or assemblies) I should be measuring/checking BEFORE I disassemble them, or is all that done once everything is taken apart? The Haynes manual has me pretty much taking it all apart, then has a following section on inspection and reassembly.
Also, looks like the chain broke at some point. Nice hole in the case - is this fixable?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 11, 2022, 02:04:05 AM
Found another (repaired) hole! Just in front of the kick starter. How do you even get a hole there? Starting to price paired crank cases and side cases...  Also exploring repair options. Neither holes are near gasket surfaces or mounts, and the hole in the top case doesn't lead into the transmission.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 11, 2022, 02:20:35 AM
Got bored (as if I didn't have enough to do) and disassembled the oil pump. Maybe economy cycle can salvage it? It will need more than just a rebuild. I'll give them a call or email with pics.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on April 11, 2022, 08:12:34 AM
For the oil pump, contact a fella here named Arrow. You'll be glad you did. Ed Toomey can also rebuild the pump. Pick your poison. Ed's in South Carolina, Arrow's in the UK. My pump was done up brand new by Arrow and I'll sing the lad's praises 'til the cows come home.

Case holes can be welded shut.

All the seals, etc. need done. The crank would be suspect at this point as well. Lots of competent rebuilders around.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 11, 2022, 10:25:15 AM
hole near sprocket looks like a previous chain failure . agree with the rest above.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 11, 2022, 03:35:04 PM
Here is my concern with the oil pump - I broke the pin off the smaller pump body casting (I thought it was push fit, it's threaded), the oil fittings are rusted bad, and the spring that pushes the pulley has disintegrated. I'll refer this post to Arrow and/or Ed Toomey when I message them. Maybe they can use it for parts if nothing else.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 18, 2022, 09:06:41 PM
OK, I'm in contact with both Arrow and Ed Toomey (thanks Striker). Enough about the oil pump.
I've got the countershaft sprocket loose, the clutch nut loose (after getting the clutch tool), and now I'm having a hell of a time getting the nut loose on the primary drive gear. The Yamaha service manual has you shoving a rag between the primary gears, and the Haynes manual has you putting a rod through the eye of each connecting rod and putting wooden supports across the crankcase. Both of these methods seem really questionable. I gave each one a brief try, and the engine just wants to bounce and rock all over my bench. What's the trick to this? Heavy duty impact wrench?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: dgorms on April 19, 2022, 12:42:09 AM
Stick a penny between the gears and use a rattle gun..............
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on April 19, 2022, 06:35:48 AM
Quote from: dgorms on April 19, 2022, 12:42:09 AM
Stick a penny between the gears and use a rattle gun..............
Yes. If you don't have an air compressor,  Harbor Freight's Brauer 1/2" 110V electric ( https://www.harborfreight.com/85-amp-12-in-variable-speed-impact-wrench-with-rocker-switch-64120.html)  awesome torque for a $89.99 tool. Just make sure you pull the trigger to loosen. Got a feeling it would wring off wheel studs in the tighten direction.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 19, 2022, 06:16:58 PM
Got the HF Bauer impact wrench and did the penny trick. Success! Thanks guys!!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on April 19, 2022, 07:00:23 PM
I bought the first rendition of the HF Earthquake 1/2" battery impact. Things a tank. It laughs at wheel studs, and every other rusted on fastener it's seen. Bought it lets see, 5 years ago and charged the battery maybe 3 times total so far?

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 20, 2022, 02:37:18 AM
Quote from: Striker1423 on April 19, 2022, 07:00:23 PM
I bought the first rendition of the HF Earthquake 1/2" battery impact. Things a tank. It laughs at wheel studs, and every other rusted on fastener it's seen. Bought it lets see, 5 years ago and charged the battery maybe 3 times total so far?

Yeah, I was impressed. It was so quick, the engine didn't have a chance to jump around on my bench. I wasn't even sure it did anything until I checked and turned the nut by hand.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 22, 2022, 10:07:40 PM
So I made an amateur move today...
I've got a vessel screwdriver with 6 various bits. I proceeded to gall up most of the screw heads for the change lever/cam stopper, and bearing stopper for the transmission. I then tried to use a screw extractor and had some success. I have 2 screws left that are pretty much stripped out on the heads. Before I proceed to screw things up worse, thought I'd see if anyone had some pearls of wisdom to share? I'm thinking heat might help, but don't I have to worry about trace oil igniting, or wrecking any plastic or rubber bits?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 23, 2022, 02:51:01 AM
Never mind, I got those 2 last screws out using this little beauty:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 23, 2022, 09:27:39 PM
My cases are pretty much glued together. I scraped off all the excess gasket goop I could get to. I've been "lightly striking" The upper (and Lower) cases, then not so lightly...   I've been googling splitting RD cases, but I keep landing on case splitter tools for vertical cases using the crank (obviously not gonna work on the RD). I've also tried tapping on studs and some reinstalled bolts. any other ideas?
Thanks for any input,
John
Also - note the bashed in area on the front of the case,  generator side.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on April 23, 2022, 10:04:42 PM
Rubber mallet. Smack the front half of the bottom case while holding the top half up (Between the two long front bolt mounts). Do this in multiple areas. It'll come apart. The smashed part? Won't hurt it per say, just an odd location to have a dent?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 24, 2022, 01:57:30 AM
Once again, Striker to the rescue this time! I beat on it in the front, and then beat on the rear with a dead blow mallet & piece of 2x4 along the overlapping edge. I also bashed in the lower mount for good measure  :bang: Probably should have used a rubber mallet like you said. When i get this all cleaned up, I'll need to find a good aluminum welder for 4 different holes and cracks in the upper, lower, and both side cases.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Alain2 on April 24, 2022, 07:51:31 AM
Are the transmission gears all good?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 25, 2022, 01:57:06 AM
Quote from: Alain2 on April 24, 2022, 07:51:31 AM
Are the transmission gears all good?

As near as I can tell, they look near perfect (to my untrained eye). The gears have no signs of wear or damage. Just a few more things to dismantle, and I can start going through cleaning, inspecting, and making my list of parts to replace. I'm following the manual, but I don't have all the measuring tools yet. I have a digital micrometer, but need a dial gauge and...? I hope to get back to it tomorrow.
BTW, I took your advice and got plastic containers, zip-lock baggies, labels and a sharpie  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Alain2 on April 25, 2022, 07:52:52 AM
Good job!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 25, 2022, 10:40:45 AM
make sure whoever does the welding they preheat those cases & cool them down slow...  they like to twist when welded.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 28, 2022, 06:20:10 PM
Cases are with the welder (fingers crossed). I did ask him to preheat and cool slowly.
I've taken some preliminary crank measurements, and I think I'm in spec, but I haven't thoroughly cleaned it yet - just playing with my new cheapo HF digital indicator. This is all new to me. Not sure how to go about measuring crankshaft assembly runout (can this be done with it resting in the lower case?)
Don't laugh, this is my setup: 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 28, 2022, 10:07:33 PM
no you need v blocks at a min.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 03, 2022, 09:18:32 PM
Debating whether to buy V-blocks, or just have the crank checked and re-done if necessary. I don't know if I trust myself after watching videos of crank work.
Got all my cases back from the welder. They looked a bit rough at first, but after a lot of Dremel work things are looking good. I'm debating having the cases soda or vapor blasted somewhere (can't find a place local), or using my bead blaster cabinet. I've done the oil pump and alternator covers, and they came out nice. I'm learning there's two camps of thought when it comes to bead blasting. "Don't do it, you'll never get all the sand out of your cases, and you'll wreck your new re-build" and "Just plug everything up good and when your done, thoroughly clean with air pressure, soap and water, and pressure washer. And meticulous inspection. 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on May 03, 2022, 09:44:36 PM
Like you said, close inspection and an air hose with a good nozzle and you can easily get all the glass beads out. I have done hundreds of engines. My 1st job as an apprentice at the shop I worked at in the 70s was bead blasting and I have a good entry level professional machine I have had since 2004. Vapor blasting makes a lovely finish and one day I hope to upgrade to a vapor blast machine. That being said if you take the time and do the prep work right you can get a nice finish with glass beads. Just my :twocents:
.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on May 04, 2022, 11:37:54 AM
absolutely check for any leftover glass. I had a bit on the bottom of a bolt hole, had to clean it out and re-tap after making a mess of the threads.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on May 04, 2022, 03:59:06 PM
That's why I chase all threads before and after I do a glass bead job. In addition I put a bolt in every hole to keep the glass beads out. Most of the labor I charge is for the cleaning, before and after, prep and packing /unpacking because that is what takes the most time. The actual blasting so long as the weather cooperates is the easy part. I hate cleaning parts..
I don't like to get mineral spirits on me so I tell everyone bead blasting is paid by the job, parts cleaning is $40 an hour.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 04, 2022, 07:49:40 PM
Quote from: Kawtriplefreak on May 04, 2022, 03:59:06 PM
That's why I chase all threads before and after I do a glass bead job. In addition I put a bolt in every hole to keep the glass beads out. Most of the labor I charge is for the cleaning, before and after, prep and packing /unpacking because that is what takes the most time. The actual blasting so long as the weather cooperates is the easy part. I hate cleaning parts..
I don't like to get mineral spirits on me so I tell everyone bead blasting is paid by the job, parts cleaning is $40 an hour.

When you chase the threads, do you do it with a tap, or just get in there with a scribe or something?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on May 04, 2022, 08:57:08 PM
With a tap before and after, every threaded hole. I also run a die over all the case studs.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 05, 2022, 12:45:42 AM
Quote from: Kawtriplefreak on May 04, 2022, 08:57:08 PM
With a tap before and after, every threaded hole. I also run a die over all the case studs.

Awesome! Thank you!! I'll post up a pic of the before and after. Here's another pic of one of the side cases after welding, filing and sanding.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: msr on May 05, 2022, 09:13:46 AM
Incidentally, for anyone who doesn't already know, Kawtriplefreak does amazing work. I got these cases back from him in January.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on May 05, 2022, 10:05:22 AM
agreed. tim does do great work. 

@ jbeasty, repair looks fantastic  :olaf:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 06, 2022, 01:30:35 AM
Quote from: msr on May 05, 2022, 09:13:46 AM
Incidentally, for anyone who doesn't already know, Kawtriplefreak does amazing work. I got these cases back from him in January.

Those look very nice indeed. Kawtriplefreak, can I ask what PSI you find works best for you?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on May 06, 2022, 09:09:19 AM
I do them in 2 passes. 80 PSI the 1st time around. Then I cut the pressure back to 40 PSI to knock the shine back some is what works well for me.Thanks for the kind words.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on May 06, 2022, 10:41:27 AM
Yea the higher the PSI the quicker you get a vapor shine, but also the trade-off is a lack of control. Shining up aluminum is a breeze, but I definitely see why its important to have a legitimate setup, my home-gamer job is harder to dial in, though it does work well. Regardless if i can see the parts while working or not.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 20, 2022, 05:29:51 PM
OK, so after a few weeks of vacillating, I've come to the conclusion that I should probably have my crank looked at by a professional. The one local guy I was able to talk to that didn't cut me off as soon as I said 1977 RD400...  said I should go on-line and find a reputable mechanic/machinist who has experience with RDs. Duh, so here I am. Is there anyone on the west coast (If not the SF/Bay area) that you guy's can recommend?  :help:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Aloha808 on May 20, 2022, 07:08:54 PM
I just got my rebuilt crank back today.    John Ritter did the work. 

I am not sure how busy he is.  He is a member here.  Check out the "General Services for Hire" section of the forum home page.

It was easy conversing with John about the process.   
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 20, 2022, 07:17:50 PM
Yes, I saw that - Thanks. I may end up checking him out if I can't find someone a little closer to me. Looks like he's in Tennessee?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: lawnboy on May 21, 2022, 05:02:33 PM
Garret at GRA2STROKES is up in Wash. He's on here as well. Also in the services for hire section
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 22, 2022, 07:28:57 PM
Thanks both you guys!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 25, 2022, 03:31:43 PM
FYI, GRA2STROKES is no longer providing any services - he emailed me back this am.
John Ritter got back to me, said he can do my crank and asked me to call him. I left a message for him.
He said he can do my barrels, but "...cylinder boring jobs are only done if I am porting the cylinders usually." So that's what I'll do. I know (I think) that porting improves flow, does it effect low end performance negatively? Or is that more of a timing thing?
He's not set up to do Daytona heads, unless I agree to cut them in half. So I'll be looking for someone to "do the squish" on my head.
What I'm hoping to achieve is good overall performance while not hurting reliability.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on May 25, 2022, 04:24:34 PM
id cut the head. pretty common on race bikes in particular, and makes servicing a bit easier. .02

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: 2steve on May 25, 2022, 05:14:41 PM
Porting can be done in a way that preserves the lower end of the power band. Chuck Quenzler called it "update porting." I used to have to coax power wheelies especially when heat soaked, but no longer.

Lower end of powerband initial kick is still there. Still on stock bore too, but he honed and provided modded ProX pistons. Felt compelled to be able to bolt on the stock pipes and still have it run great.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 25, 2022, 07:57:07 PM
Just got off the phone with John Ritter. What a nice guy! He suspects my crank may have been rebuilt at some point. Had me check my rods, and said they are Daytona Rods based on the 2T2 stamped on the side. He also gave me some pointers on measuring my crank, before I just send it off to be rebuilt if it doesn't necessarily need it.

M in SC, I may just do that. He said he hates to chop the heads up because they're so rare. Is there any benefit to using the Daytona head vs stock?

2Steve, good to know. We started to talk about different porting options, but we got side tracked.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on May 26, 2022, 10:18:17 AM
no real benefit aside from looks. John is a hell of a nice guy. 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on May 26, 2022, 05:47:59 PM
Got my bottom case cleaned up, already getting dirty again - I keep finding gasket goop EVERYWHERE  :bang:
There is a wear spot on the inner right rear (from 1st gear rubbing?)
Also, the hole on the right side that supports the gearchange lever/shaft is galled up from me pulling it through. Not sure if there's anything I can do about that other than honing it out a bit? 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 02, 2022, 02:08:10 AM
So I cleaned up my crankshaft and took some of measurements again. I was only able to take runout measurements on the ends of the shaft with the bearings in place. I used a v-block supporting the inner bearings. Left side is 0.003, Right is 0.0025. Don't know what is considered way out of alignment, but this seems pretty close to spec to me?
Small end axial play: L is 38.5, R is 39.0 - Not sure how much force I should use when moving the rods left to right, so I just went light - enough to make contact with each side. I can make the numbers go up a thousandth or so if I force it more.
I checked the con rod side clearance with a feeler gauge: L is 0.012, R is 0.009.
The outer bearings roll good, no rough spots. The inner bearings also roll good, but there's a slight resistance - from the middle seal?
Given that if I ever get this thing running, and I'll just use it to ride around for fun - are these numbers OK? . I'm no speed demon, I'm retired.
Also, not sure if it matters, but with Daytona rods AND head, does this then correct the squish? Or are the RD400 rods all the same length?
Thanks for any and all input, JB
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: SoCal250 on June 08, 2022, 08:27:20 PM
Quote from: JBeasty on June 02, 2022, 02:08:10 AM
So I cleaned up my crankshaft and took some of measurements again. I was only able to take runout measurements on the ends of the shaft with the bearings in place. I used a v-block supporting the inner bearings. Left side is 0.003, Right is 0.0025. Don't know what is considered way out of alignment, but this seems pretty close to spec to me?
Small end axial play: L is 38.5, R is 39.0 - Not sure how much force I should use when moving the rods left to right, so I just went light - enough to make contact with each side. I can make the numbers go up a thousandth or so if I force it more.
I checked the con rod side clearance with a feeler gauge: L is 0.012, R is 0.009.
The outer bearings roll good, no rough spots. The inner bearings also roll good, but there's a slight resistance - from the middle seal?
Given that if I ever get this thing running, and I'll just use it to ride around for fun - are these numbers OK? . I'm no speed demon, I'm retired.
Also, not sure if it matters, but with Daytona rods AND head, does this then correct the squish? Or are the RD400 rods all the same length?
Thanks for any and all input, JB

JB,
Do you have a factory shop manual? It has the specs for the crank tolerances.
You can also find some crankshaft info in the Tech Library under the Yamaha section (Yamaha Tech Bulletins).

RD400 rods are the same length, 1976 through 1979. Squish and chamber vol are corrected by machining the head, (and matching with the piston and head gasket used). By the way, the OEM head gasket for the RD400C-E is 0.020" thick and a separate gasket for each side, while the RD400F is 0.055" and 1-piece. If the Daytona head is cut in half and machined for the thinner standard RD400 gaskets, it allows for working on one cylinder at a time instead of having to replace the gasket on both cylinders. :twocents:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 09, 2022, 03:12:15 AM
Quote from: SoCal250 on June 08, 2022, 08:27:20 PM
Quote from: JBeasty on June 02, 2022, 02:08:10 AM
So I cleaned up my crankshaft and took some of measurements again. I was only able to take runout measurements on the ends of the shaft with the bearings in place. I used a v-block supporting the inner bearings. Left side is 0.003, Right is 0.0025. Don't know what is considered way out of alignment, but this seems pretty close to spec to me?
Small end axial play: L is 38.5, R is 39.0 - Not sure how much force I should use when moving the rods left to right, so I just went light - enough to make contact with each side. I can make the numbers go up a thousandth or so if I force it more.
I checked the con rod side clearance with a feeler gauge: L is 0.012, R is 0.009.
The outer bearings roll good, no rough spots. The inner bearings also roll good, but there's a slight resistance - from the middle seal?
Given that if I ever get this thing running, and I'll just use it to ride around for fun - are these numbers OK? . I'm no speed demon, I'm retired.
Also, not sure if it matters, but with Daytona rods AND head, does this then correct the squish? Or are the RD400 rods all the same length?
Thanks for any and all input, JB

JB,
Do you have a factory shop manual? It has the specs for the crank tolerances.
You can also find some crankshaft info in the Tech Library under the Yamaha section (Yamaha Tech Bulletins).

RD400 rods are the same length, 1976 through 1979. Squish and chamber vol are corrected by machining the head, (and matching with the piston and head gasket used). By the way, the OEM head gasket for the RD400C-E is 0.020" thick and a separate gasket for each side, while the RD400F is 0.055" and 1-piece. If the Daytona head is cut in half and machined for the thinner standard RD400 gaskets, it allows for working on one cylinder at a time instead of having to replace the gasket on both cylinders. :twocents:

Woah - I see I made a major typo with the Small end axial play numbers I posted. It should read:
Left side= 0.0385in, Right side= 0.039in
I'm using a reproduction service manual. Thanks for pointing me to the Tech Library - I found info for RD 350, but not the 400. Similar specs though. I don't have a lathe or any way to support the crank from the ends, so I'm supporting it in the middle with a v-block - hence I can't measure runout in the middle.  I guess it's obvious I'm trying to get by without doing the crank. My numbers seem (to me) so close to spec. This bike is so beat to $#!t, I'm afraid of throwing too much money at it.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on June 09, 2022, 06:28:48 AM
RD400 service manual is here: https://www.aircooledrdclub.com/manuals/400C.pdf
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 10, 2022, 01:27:14 AM
Quote from: pidjones on June 09, 2022, 06:28:48 AM
RD400 service manual is here: https://www.aircooledrdclub.com/manuals/400C.pdf

Thanks, looks just like mine. Now I know I'm working with the right manual.
In the drawing of the crank (see pic below), It appears the little triangles represent supporting the crank in the middle. It also looks like the dial gauges are positioned on the ends of the shaft, and at each outer bearing. Is that right? I tried to take measurements on the bearing, but the probe tip just catches the outer bearing race and brings it along for the ride. That can't be right  :umm:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on June 10, 2022, 10:23:28 AM
correct.

thats how i did my t500 crank as well.  :gentleman:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 10, 2022, 09:08:04 PM
Quote from: m in sc on June 10, 2022, 10:23:28 AM
correct.

thats how i did my t500 crank as well.  :gentleman:

Cool! I had a T500 almost 40 years ago.
Edit: more like 35 yrs ago
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 12, 2022, 07:28:54 PM
Got all my bottom end bead blasted. Now the fun part begins: cleaning all the glass beads out. Here's my home set-up. Not the best, but it gets me in the game.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on July 31, 2022, 09:51:29 PM
I checked out for a bit. European vacation, got COVID (not bad), sort of lost my momentum. Now I'm back at it, waiting in my spot for my turn with the machinist. Starting to focus on the rest of the bike.

Anyway, I have this fiberglass seat pan. It's pretty rough, and not particularly light (~2.3 lbs). Wondering if it's worth rescuing. How much does the stock metal pan weigh?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on August 01, 2022, 07:06:28 AM
Sorry you snagged a 'Rona bug. Hope no lasting effects. Nothing wrong with a 'glass seat pan. I have one on my '78 GL1000. Was easy to build up the seat shape desired with rebond carpet padding layered with 3M spray adhesive (the kind they use on headliners). Shaping with electric carving knife (NOT the wife's!) And course sanding disk. Hardest part is attaching the cover. I had an upholsterer sew and attach mine he said the 'glass kept bending the staples, but agreed that spray glue does a good job. Later, I learned that (carefully drilled - use a stop) pop rivets are probably the way to go.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/4a6f00116a1ae7cfdf5ab3f62862989e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/6cb92b2ecdd8a52745d0c32be8afd7ee.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220801/948ebe01d61052f4b2b96b67ca4385f4.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 01, 2022, 01:26:57 PM
Very nice work! How did you do the built up section in the rear?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on August 01, 2022, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: JBeasty on August 01, 2022, 01:26:57 PM
Very nice work! How did you do the built up section in the rear?
Big chunk of closed-cell stiff foam from packing and layered build-up of rebond carpet padding. I tried to buy foam for motorcycle seats at a local foam outlet, and they said they don't have anything stiff enough - get rebond.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 04, 2022, 09:00:39 PM
So I'm starting to put my transmission back together. Today I took the shift cam apart because the bearing feels a little worn. Of course the head of the screw that holds the cover plate on got all stripped out. Finally got it loose with an easy out. Lifted the plate off and and dowel pins went everywhere...   After spending an hour+ on my knees crawling all around the garage I found the last two. Now I'm not sure where the little 1/2 circle pawl goes in relation to all the pins, and the single pin on the other side. Or does it even matter? Also, now I'm not sure if it really needs a new bearing. This is not a hi speed bearing, correct?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on August 05, 2022, 11:10:05 AM
oh, it matters. we went thru this with matts 400. this is what stops the pawl from garbbing 'beyond' 6th gear and 'below' 1st. when you get the drum back in, kick it down into 1st gear, then you can see where it goes.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 05, 2022, 11:25:26 AM
So trial and error. Bummer. Maybe I can find a picture somewhere that shows it clearly.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on August 05, 2022, 01:18:29 PM
you wont. we went thru this, found nothing.. unless i just missed it.. its easy to figure out though. PM 'msr' on here he might have some
insight. 

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 05, 2022, 02:25:18 PM
I did find a some pics on ebay that shows it all assembled. No guaranty they're assembled correctly though...
I'll pm msr too. Thanks Mark!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 05, 2022, 07:26:27 PM
Here's a pic I found on ebay
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 05, 2022, 07:31:57 PM
I just put mine together like it. It may not be right, but at least I have a starting point  :confusing2:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on August 05, 2022, 09:15:20 PM
you'll know pretty quick. just check gear operation before putting the side cover back on.  :cheerleader:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 23, 2022, 08:51:27 PM
Got the transmission together. Messed with it for several hours today, moving the pawl around. Just seems to be getting worse. Gets stuck in the mid gears, and/or doesn't go all the way in to first, move the pawl again and then it doesn't go into sixth.
I should mention that I've been shifting through the gears with no top case. I pour oil on anything that moves (except wife and dog), and turn the drive axle while shifting it with my left arm. Sometimes I can get it to shift all the way up, or all the way down (while fiddling with the shift cam and linkage), but never both. Maybe it would behave better if I put the top case on? Or are they kinda rough shifting when the the tranny isn't full of oil (and bike isn't running?)
Time to step away for a bit...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on August 25, 2022, 10:17:19 PM
you are in luck. MSR was here tonight, we took a pic of his specifically to show you where it needs to be.

this is with trans in neutral. right behind where the silver sharpie mark is.  Hope this helps:



Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 26, 2022, 01:01:06 AM
Wow. Thank you SO much Mark and Matt. I may just get this thing running!! 2strokeworld rocks!  :metal:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: msr on August 26, 2022, 09:38:16 AM
Silver sharpie FTW
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 30, 2022, 08:51:45 PM
Well I've got the cases together and torqued down. Crank spins freely with no rattle or bearings spinning in the saddle. I can shift it through all the gears, but I still have to upshift/down shift when it gets stuck. I'm hoping full of oil and running will cure that.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on August 30, 2022, 09:39:11 PM
it should . excellent.  :whoop:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: DaytonaCafe on August 31, 2022, 12:10:24 PM
Looks nice, JBeasty!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on September 27, 2022, 02:17:04 AM
Moving really slow on this...   Took the generator all apart because it was so crusty. Got it as clean as I could and reassembled with new hardware. Just waiting on points and condenser. Next is the clutch side.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on September 27, 2022, 09:44:21 AM
looks much better. tip: make sure the felt lubricator lightly rides on the points cam
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on September 29, 2022, 02:04:30 AM
Got it. Just curious - should I put a drop of oil on it?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on September 29, 2022, 10:02:43 AM
yes.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on September 29, 2022, 07:56:52 PM
Attempting to button up the left side of the engine. When I go to tighten the sprocket nut (even by hand) I get some binding when I try to rotate the counter shaft. It doesn't lock up or grind, it just gets harder to turn. I should mention that I have 2 sprocket lock washers on there (on advice from John with Economy), because I'm converting to a 520 chain (and sprockets). Any idea's what is causing this?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on September 30, 2022, 03:38:50 PM
Maybe binding is the wrong term. Dragging, resistance, tightness?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on September 30, 2022, 05:51:22 PM
no oil in the motor not really unusual.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on October 03, 2022, 07:37:12 PM
Got the bottom half of the clutch mounted, waiting on new friction plates. Now looking at the outer drum, I'm wondering if I should file the splines/dogs. Do these look worn enough to address?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 05, 2022, 02:17:32 AM
I've been quiet for a bit, but things are happening. The clutch is sorted out. The frame is stripped, I just have to take off the triple clamps and swing arm, then get it blasted. Got the Daytona head cut in half. Mark (Speed of Cheese) did it for me. He said, get this:
"John, This is not how I make my living but I'm happy to do it because I love RDs. Give me enough for shipping and we are good".
First time I think I've ever had ANY work done for free, let alone from a machinist! I'm finding 2 stroke guys are a cut above.  The head(s) came out very nice too. I'd post pics, but they, along with my barrels, are currently with John Ritter.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Striker1423 on November 07, 2022, 07:47:52 AM
John Ritter will make those parts a work of art. You won't be dissapointed.

Just don't blow it up right away like I did.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 07, 2022, 07:38:00 PM
RD is bomb, me is fuse  :devil: 
Actually, I shouldn't joke around like that...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 08, 2022, 02:03:08 AM
So with the frame stripped I can start planning how to adapt this 86 Radian swing arm I got a while back. The pivot is a direct fit, and it has needle bearings. From the pivot to the axle hole, it's about 3 inches longer. It feels lighter, but I weighed it and it's about 1 lb heavier (RD is 6.6, Radian 7.7) on my kitchen scale. It IS more substantial than the RD swing arm. I'll have to figure out spacers for the added width in the axle area, which is probably a good thing as it will allow me to align the chain. The shock clevis's will have be moved inward to line up with the more narrow RD shock mounts. And while I'm at it, I thought I would move them forward about 3 inches to match the stock RD swing arm. My thinking is that way I can use close to stock length shocks, keeping the geometry closer to stock. That's my plan anyway. Feel free to chime in if I'm missing something.
JB
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: 1976RD400C on November 08, 2022, 07:41:57 AM
John Ritter did my cylinders, heads, reeds 10 years ago and that turned my bike into the most favorite bike of all time. Every time I ride it, the first time I get to roll the throttle open, it's all smiles and WOW. 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: 85RZwade on November 08, 2022, 10:08:52 AM
While moving shock mounts around, be mindful of ride height. Moving shocks forward on that longer swingarm might stinkbug ya.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on November 08, 2022, 10:55:39 AM
split the differences on the shock placement and plan on increasing the preload. i did that with the fzr400 swingarm on the hybrid, worked out well, and its 4" longer than a 350 arm, so the same as that . also expect the ass end to stick up more, which will bring the effective rake IN on the front and steer quite a bit quicker. .02

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 08, 2022, 12:31:24 PM
Quote from: m in sc on November 08, 2022, 10:55:39 AM
split the differences on the shock placement and plan on increasing the preload. i did that with the fzr400 swingarm on the hybrid, worked out well, and its 4" longer than a 350 arm, so the same as that . also expect the ass end to stick up more, which will bring the effective rake IN on the front and steer quite a bit quicker. .02

So move the mounts forward ~ 1.5"? What about getting shorter shocks? Showing my ignorance here - I'm guessing quicker steering is desirable on this bike? 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on November 08, 2022, 12:56:10 PM
they will still lay over more. youre going to have to just see where it lands and adjust from there. when i did mine I made 4 holes to use for the lower mount, figured where i wanted it w some older mulhollands.. then went with a set of works shocks.

you can see the mount here, there are 4 holes up the arm on the aluminum i machined then welded to the arm. i would up going w the 1st one

(https://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/LC-HYBRID/2018-updates/forks-cleanup/IMG-20160713-00249_zpstb9rjfby.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 08, 2022, 02:13:31 PM
That's a great idea! I see you also rotated your caliper 180* and cut off a bunch of the mount. Did you also cut flush the threaded part that passes through the swing arm, or leave a little to create a spacer?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on November 08, 2022, 02:58:22 PM
i cut it flush, and made spacers on the lathe to center the wheel.  since mine was a monoshock arm, I used the shock mount on the bottom and a cylinder head nut w a spacer and a stud to secure the torque arm. just fyi.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 08, 2022, 03:12:51 PM
My swing arm has a mount point for the torque arm approximately where the RD one is. Might be able to use it?

This is (roughly) the way it sits now. Don't know what the stock shock length is, but these old S&W's are ~ 13.25 eye to eye. I can see now how the rear end will raise up (and down) a lot with minimal forward/back clevis movement. I know I'm a long way off from final placement, but I may end up needing slightly shorter shocks?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on November 08, 2022, 03:22:12 PM
that actually doesn't look -that- far off. 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 10, 2022, 07:25:59 PM
Making a bit more progress. Also received this beauty yesterday from Evans Ward.  :clap: Now I need to source an adapter, or find a template to make one.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 12, 2022, 04:08:10 AM
Got side tracked trying to find an adapter for the R1 blue spot caliper. I see they are available for the RZ, but not for the RD? I then found Mark's zip file for the adapter in the Speed Shop. I printed the jpg, but it's too big, and it won't let me resize it. I guess I don't know how to play with zip files... 

http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=184.0

Does anyone know where I can find an adapter for the RD400, or if there's a way to print out a template so I can attempt to make one?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on November 12, 2022, 06:25:48 AM
that should have the dxf file in it, and its def drawn to scale.. thats the file we used in the laser. you cant just print up the jpeg. aslso, its drawn in mm, will try to convert to inches, so if you are using a cad program or cad reader, be aware of this. ..02

PRINT THIS PDF 1:1 should be good.

https://www.2strokeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/lightweight-rd/forks/adapter1.pdf



Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on November 12, 2022, 02:59:16 PM
Once again, Mark to the rescue, saving me from myself  :smiley:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on November 12, 2022, 04:17:07 PM
cad: Cardboard Aided Design.  :science:

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: RDnuTZ on December 03, 2022, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 03:55:41 PM
Hey everyone, new to the forum - 1st post.
So I spent way too much money on this emotional buy. I know it's a POS. I thought I needed a new project...
I've never really done a total restoration on a motorcycle, let alone a 2 stroke, but here goes. Looking at the bike as a whole is overwhelming, so I thought I'd focus on one thing at a time, shelf it, and move on to the next piece. Right now I'm doing the gas tank. So far I've de-rusted it, taken it down to metal, bondo'd the dents, primed and base coated it. I think I'll take off the chambers next.

I was in a similar situation...back in 1995. Found a Chappy Red runner that was all stock but rusty and needed full restoration. Had a title + key too :thumbs: I tore it down to the frame and had blasted and powder coated Silver. Left engine with carbs intact thinking to do last. Bought lots of new parts dreaming of putting it back together as my main rider. Then a couple major house moves and 11 year detour into VMX pushed it to the back burner. Then a major relocation from SoCal to SW CO put it into deep storage for last 5 years. Hoping to finally dig it out and finish the job as NEXT year's Winter project  :lol:

I'm sure yours will be done before mine  :cool:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on December 07, 2022, 09:27:08 PM
Quote from: RDnuTZ on December 03, 2022, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: JBeasty on April 04, 2022, 03:55:41 PM
Hey everyone, new to the forum - 1st post.
So I spent way too much money on this emotional buy. I know it's a POS. I thought I needed a new project...
I've never really done a total restoration on a motorcycle, let alone a 2 stroke, but here goes. Looking at the bike as a whole is overwhelming, so I thought I'd focus on one thing at a time, shelf it, and move on to the next piece. Right now I'm doing the gas tank. So far I've de-rusted it, taken it down to metal, bondo'd the dents, primed and base coated it. I think I'll take off the chambers next.

I was in a similar situation...back in 1995. Found a Chappy Red runner that was all stock but rusty and needed full restoration. Had a title + key too :thumbs: I tore it down to the frame and had blasted and powder coated Silver. Left engine with carbs intact thinking to do last. Bought lots of new parts dreaming of putting it back together as my main rider. Then a couple major house moves and 11 year detour into VMX pushed it to the back burner. Then a major relocation from SoCal to SW CO put it into deep storage for last 5 years. Hoping to finally dig it out and finish the job as NEXT year's Winter project  :lol:

I'm sure yours will be done before mine  :cool:

I wouldn't bet on it...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: 85RZwade on December 08, 2022, 10:25:06 AM
It's almost time for New Years resolutions!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: pidjones on December 08, 2022, 11:53:00 AM
Quote from: 85RZwade on December 08, 2022, 10:25:06 AM
It's almost time for New Years resolutions!
And we know how well they are kept.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on December 08, 2022, 01:32:58 PM
spend 30 mins a day on it, and sooner than later it will be done.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: SoCal250 on December 08, 2022, 01:50:09 PM
Quote from: m in sc on December 08, 2022, 01:32:58 PM
spend 30 mins a day on it, and sooner than later it will be done.  :twocents:

I have a large dry erase whiteboard on my garage wall. On it I have each bike project with a master list of all the tasks that need to be done to complete it. I usually select a couple items from the list every couple days (or each week) to focus on and attack those. As items are completed they get crossed off the list on the whiteboard. It's a great way to track your progress and not get overwhelmed. And as the master project list items get crossed off one by one it helps enforce that you're making progress and the end is achievable.  :twocents:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on December 08, 2022, 08:55:14 PM
Wow, look at everybody piling on! Guess I better get to work.
I have made a little progress. Decided on a location for my shock mounts - ~ 1 1/2 inches forward (same distance as the swing arm pivot to the upper shock mount), and ~ 1/2 inch inward so the shocks hang straight. Got the frame and swing arm powder coated. New bearings for the steering stem assembly and all mounted up. Got a call from John Ritter yesterday about my cylinders, head and manifolds. He's trying to talk me into pulling my engine apart again and sending him my crank... 
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: TPR5 on December 13, 2022, 10:33:03 AM
Great project ! keep it up ..
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on January 23, 2023, 12:21:35 PM
Got some parts back from John Ritter this weekend! The rust & pitting was so bad he had to go 2mm over on the bore. He's calling the porting "Stage 1 on steroids". He's got my crank now too.
Edit: after looking at the last pic and seeing all the spots, I ran out to the garage to check them more closely. The spots are oil from machining.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on January 23, 2023, 02:28:46 PM
YEAH, THAT LOOKS GREAT.  you should be real happy w the way this turns out.  :metal:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on February 17, 2023, 09:48:20 PM
Made a little more progress. Front forks rebuilt with MikesXS emulators (with lots of help from the wizards on here).

http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=3767.45

Also put on some cheapo RFY shocks (temporarily). Crank is on its way, should be here tomorrow or Monday.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on February 18, 2023, 07:13:58 AM
NIce! progress !
:clap:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: SoCal250 on February 18, 2023, 12:45:18 PM
:olaf: Lookin good!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: kramdua on February 18, 2023, 01:54:53 PM
I know it's a POS.. that is the first thing you said way back in your first post.
Well look at you now. looking great.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on February 18, 2023, 09:50:30 PM
Thanks guys. Long way to go...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 08, 2023, 11:55:50 AM
I am just sick. Sometime over the last 3 months, I got a crack on the outside of my right Daytona head. Don't know how/when it happened. I tried to straighten it, and of course it broke of. The 2nd pic is from when I posted pics of the finished parts, about 3 months ago. You can see the crack up in the right hand corner. Don't know how I missed this.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 08, 2023, 11:56:50 AM
No problem, I'll just take it to my welder dude, who did a decent job on my cases...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 08, 2023, 12:05:05 PM
So my question is, is this fixable? Maybe braising or one of those low heat fillers you can get that only requires propane or map gas?...  or do i just fill the holes with JB weld and paint it. Here's my other head all nice and polished.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 10, 2023, 06:11:25 PM
So I found 1 (ONE!) guy who's willing to fix my head (RD400 head that is...). He's a race car fabricator/welder with a shop on site at Sonoma Raceway (aka Sears point, Infineon). He's about 25 miles from me. Gonna go see him tomorrow. It wont be cheap, but it beats JB weld!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on March 10, 2023, 07:45:12 PM
i would have cleaned it and try to get some solver solder in there then smooth it out since its just cosmetic. with as porous as the hole in, it prob would have held. but tigging in some aluminum is going to be good.. but be warned it will prob be a different shade of silver.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 11, 2023, 01:30:33 AM
I went out and got some low heat aluminum brazing rods I was going to try and use. But this guy will no doubt do a better job than I ever could. I just didn't want to potentially screw it up even worse. He did warn me it'll be a slight different shade.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 29, 2023, 03:33:40 PM
When you don't have a mill...  Not perfect, but not bad! Took me a while to make though. The caliper really takes up a lot of space between the forks. Looks like it will hit the wheel. Hopefully an optical illusion.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on March 29, 2023, 03:52:42 PM
admittedly i haven't tried it with a mag, so cant comment on that. but if its close, you can relieve the back of the caliper, there's a decent amount of meat there. flap wheel and an angle grinder. i know chuck q did that with his bike with a different mount.

looks good so far!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: 85RZwade on March 29, 2023, 03:54:05 PM
FINE looking bracket, MacGuyver; nicely done  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on March 29, 2023, 04:07:37 PM
did you make the rotor spacer yet?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 29, 2023, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: m in sc on March 29, 2023, 04:07:37 PM
did you make the rotor spacer yet?

No I haven't. I was gonna use the center of the stock rotor like you suggest in the Speed Shop though.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on March 29, 2023, 06:50:50 PM
We did one on Frank B's 400. It will miss the mag.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bnrzs9ds/IMG_20871.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4Y1PbMfF)
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on March 29, 2023, 08:34:39 PM
Awesome, Thanks for chiming in. One less thing to worry about.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: kpke on March 30, 2023, 08:01:18 AM
Quote from: JBeasty on March 29, 2023, 03:33:40 PM
When you don't have a mill...  Not perfect, but not bad! Took me a while to make though. The caliper really takes up a lot of space between the forks. Looks like it will hit the wheel. Hopefully an optical illusion.

Quite impressive. That looks really nice.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: RSW46 on April 03, 2023, 10:15:32 AM
Quote from: JBeasty on March 29, 2023, 03:33:40 PM
When you don't have a mill...  Not perfect, but not bad! Took me a while to make though. The caliper really takes up a lot of space between the forks. Looks like it will hit the wheel. Hopefully an optical illusion.

Nice work on the caliper bracket,
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 03, 2023, 01:38:44 PM
Thanks everybody. I can't take full credit. This is Marks (m in sc) design.
http://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=184.0
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 06, 2023, 01:02:59 AM
More from the Neanderthal machine shop! Center of stock rotor to align new disk to caliper.
EDIT: Question for Mark - This is only about 10mm (or 0.4") thick. In your SPEED SHOP post, you say it should be 13mm (or 1/2"). Will this work, or can I space it out a bit more with washers? I guess I could mount it up and see for myself...
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on April 06, 2023, 09:48:21 AM
Don't use washers.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 06, 2023, 10:04:06 AM
agreed. if you cant shim the caliper in any further, and have it clear, you will need to make a 2-3mm shim behind the spacer, aluminum will be fine for this, ut im pretty sure you can space the caliper back and get it to work.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 06, 2023, 10:58:18 AM
Got it. I'm guessing I shouldn't use washers to shim the caliper either?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on April 06, 2023, 11:20:29 AM
you can use washers or spacers to shim the caliper, thats fine. 3/8" id ones will work, you may want to get some thick washers or spacers for final use if that works.

Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on April 06, 2023, 09:24:23 PM
Thanks Mark. Wheel is all apart to get powder coated, so I'll play with it when I get it back.
I got the top end installed, head came out OK - not perfect. But that's probably a good thing. Maybe It'll keep me from obsessing  and trying to get everything on this bike absolutely perfect.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: TPR5 on June 22, 2023, 10:14:55 PM
Great job .. !
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 25, 2023, 09:15:23 PM
I'm still here!! Putting my rear wheel back together and can't remember how the inner spacers go. Is it the first image or the 2nd?
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on June 25, 2023, 09:43:45 PM
pretty sure its 2 but will be super obvious if its wrong
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: SoCal250 on June 25, 2023, 10:26:36 PM
Quote from: JBeasty on June 25, 2023, 09:15:23 PM... can't remember how the inner spacers go. Is it the first image or the 2nd?
yep, 2nd :thumbs:

RD400 C/D/E Rear Wheel bearing/spacer/collar assembly order (repair manual error)
https://www.2strokeworld.net/forum/index.php?topic=693.0
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on June 26, 2023, 02:05:16 AM
Thanks Guys. I should know better by now to question the manual if things aren't looking quite right!
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on July 03, 2023, 08:54:16 PM
How important is this tab washer/sprocket plate thingy? Other than covering the huge snap ring and providing tabs (nonexistent) to lock the nuts, does it do anythings else? Is there a concern with that snap ring being exposed? I was just going to use washers and lock tight.

Also, I have the 2 Sprocket spacers from Economy on there (for the 520 chain conversion), but there is still a tiny bit of play. Is that normal?

Thanks for any insight.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on July 03, 2023, 09:57:09 PM
not terribly important but if you arent going to run it, run some thin nylocks or something.

or:

https://yambits.co.uk/rd400c-sprocket-lock-tab-rear-p-51906.html
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: soonerbillz on July 03, 2023, 11:00:35 PM
I wouldn't be confident without that snap ring covered. God forbid something snags it.
 It would be my luck.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on July 06, 2023, 10:27:33 AM
that snap ring is extremely robust, nothing will snag that and remove it.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: rodneya on July 06, 2023, 11:54:01 AM
Pretty sure that lock plate is made like that to hide the snap ring and make that area look cleaner.

I have a spoked 400 rear hub with a spacer behind the sprocket, so it uses bolts to hold the sprocket on.
last week my bike started making a noise and vibrating just before home. Locking tabs were probably a bit loose and one bolt backed out and demolished the adjuster.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on July 19, 2023, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: rodneya on July 06, 2023, 11:54:01 AMPretty sure that lock plate is made like that to hide the snap ring and make that area look cleaner.

I have a spoked 400 rear hub with a spacer behind the sprocket, so it uses bolts to hold the sprocket on.
last week my bike started making a noise and vibrating just before home. Locking tabs were probably a bit loose and one bolt backed out and demolished the adjuster.

Not sure if you've remedied this, but I have an adjuster I won't be using that you can have.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: rodneya on July 20, 2023, 10:41:23 AM
Quote from: JBeasty on July 19, 2023, 08:24:02 PM
Quote from: rodneya on July 06, 2023, 11:54:01 AMPretty sure that lock plate is made like that to hide the snap ring and make that area look cleaner.

I have a spoked 400 rear hub with a spacer behind the sprocket, so it uses bolts to hold the sprocket on.
last week my bike started making a noise and vibrating just before home. Locking tabs were probably a bit loose and one bolt backed out and demolished the adjuster.

Not sure if you've remedied this, but I have an adjuster I won't be using that you can have.

Thanks for the offer, but I had a spare in my junk bits stash that I managed to get straightened out enough to use.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 01, 2023, 02:41:23 AM
Has anyone ever fit this VSM6 Airtech seat pan to an RD400? I've got a birthday coming up. Looking for things to put on my wish list.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: svgarage on August 07, 2023, 08:10:30 PM
I purchased a seat that is similar to what you want. My solution was to braze pins to the frame and pin the pan in place. I cut the pins down to size and suspended the seat with rubber stoppers.

20190929_194455.jpg20190815_123459.jpg20190815_124220.jpg
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 09, 2023, 02:12:00 AM
Very nice! I went ahead and ordered the Airtech seat. I know I'll have to do some sort of fiberglass fabrication to make it work. My hope is to use the stock seat hinges, or some sort of quick release mount - so I can have easy access to the oil tank.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: JBeasty on August 09, 2023, 02:24:12 AM
Made a bit more progress. Rear wheel mounted and centered with spacers I made. Chain lines up nice. Got the front wheel mounted, but I'll have to make another 4mm spacer for the disk, and possibly shim the caliper out a bit, or grind it. As it is, the caliper hits the rim, and the disk does not line up within the caliper.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: Kawtriplefreak on August 09, 2023, 08:44:47 AM
Looks great :whoop:  :whoop:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: m in sc on August 09, 2023, 11:31:16 AM
yeah man, looks good.
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: 85RZwade on August 10, 2023, 09:25:03 AM
Coming along very nicely  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Dead RD400 resurrection
Post by: general_piffle on November 14, 2023, 03:23:00 PM
Have just read this thread from start to here, with great interest. Looking good!  :thumbs: