This came up just by chance in a neighborhood on line group talking about old
abandoned motorcycles and restorations.
Guy mentions he has an old bike in his garage that has not been started in
30 years or more. He would be willing to sell it for a ridiculously low price.
"Too low to mention on line"
He is the original owner, purchased 11/73. Presently has ~12K miles.
He did not explain why he took some of it apart years ago, and I did
not feel the need to ask.
Everything is there. In a couple boxes or still on the bike.
So I am sure I will be having questions and looking for suggestions on
upgrades and rebuild services.
I am planning pretty much a ground up restoration. May be into a minor
"Resto-Mod" and not trying to build a concourse restoration. Maybe clubman
bars, doubt I can use clip-on style. Possibly cafe style seat? Rear sets?
Performance expansion chambers? etc...
I hope to finish this project before the next 2-stroke Extravaganza.
Be glad to hear your thoughts.
I hope the picture attachment shows up. Not seeing it as I type.
Cheers, Jeff
Nice score !
Nice butterfly blue 250! Lots of great mods to do. Let your imagination and wallet be your guide.
very nice indeeed.
:clap:
Thanks for the positive comments.
I am not too confident in my ability to split the cases
and do the mains and seals. Most likely need the crank
rebuilt just to be safe.
I would feel fine just doing a top end, but, not much deeper.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a mechanic in the So. Calif.
area that can perform an engine rebuild?
Would / should I source all the bearing, seals, gaskets etc... or leave that
to the more experienced guru?
Everything else I feel fine doing on a restoration.
Here are a couple of the bikes I recently completed.
Cheer, Jeff
Quote from: so-cal-sdr200 on June 27, 2019, 11:44:03 AM...I am not too confident in my ability to split the cases and do the mains and seals....
I'm in the same boat. Done a few top-ends, rebuilt a V-8, etc. I found a spare RD engine & took it apart. It's not very complicated. The shifting mechanism arrangement appears to be the most daunting. Buy some Manuals, watch some videos & ask questions here. Document the disassembly & take plenty of pictures. Good luck.
http://erlenbachracing.co
He is a member here
Yes, It sounds and looks, ( by his web site ), like I need to talk to Mr. Ed Erlenbach.
Although I don't need a 146MHP RD250... I believe I saw his bike at the 2018 2-stroke
Extravaganza show.
As it was said before, the only limitation is imagination and how fat is my piggy bank.
I did just spend an hour or two in HVCcycle and Economy Cycle's web sites. Drool :vroom:
Anyone know if the Jim Lomas pipes for the R5 would, ( first work ), and fit second on a 250?
They are pure eye candy for sure.
They are much nicer in person than the pipes on my SDR200.
Thanks and keep the hints and suggestions coming.
This might be a long term project as funds become available.
Cheers, Jeff
Those SDRs are too cool :drool:
buy it. restore it. ride it.
Update. Stripped the bike down to the frame. :metal:
And removed the motor.
Time for some serious grime and crud removal.
Start identifying all the new parts that are needed. Get the
fenders, tail light, chain guard...etc to the chrome shop.
Frame, swing arm, triple clamps to the blaster/powder coat shop.
And start talking to some local builder that wants to do a motor
for me..
thanks for the links to, I believe, the two best local guys in
So. Cal. I will be contacting then in the next couple weeks.
Cheers and thanks, Jeff
and yes, the JL pipes will work. :patriot:
Two thumbs up on that SDR-200.
Cheers, 50gary
Update as of today.
New Excel shouldered rims and Buchanon's stainless spokes laced and trued yesterday.
Installed the BT45 tires this morning. Front 90/90-18; Rear 110/80-18. The rims I
went with 1.85 front and 2.15 rear. Sure hope these fit. Pretty sure they will.
Frame should come back from paint next week. The chrome should be done by
mid August.
Bought a whole bunch of goodies from Economy and HvcCycle. Both orders arrived
on Friday. Felt like Christmas. :whoop: :whoop:
Getting excited to putting the rolling chassis back together. Then find the local builder
for the engine. I should be contacting the suggested folks soon.
thanks for checking in on my project.
Jeff
Nice score Jeff. Progress is looking good. :clap:
Very nice!
Just wanted to post a little about the progress.
Got the frame back from paint last week, and the chrome finished
last week too. Two weeks early, :toot:
Both came out very well. I am happy with the vendors I chose.
Try and make a long story short. I ordered a pair of Ikon Shocks
for the Gilera 175 project I was working on before the RD showed up.
Since the suspension geometrys were very close I chose to install the
Ikons on the RD instead. Only change was the ID of the eye bushings.
From 15mm on the Gilera to 14mm on the RD. Got the new bushings
and press fit in the new ones.
Installed the triple trees, tapered roller steering head bearings and fork
tubes. Along with new headlight ears and the tube clamps for Woodcraft
Clip Ons.
I (had thought) I would use the nifty top triple clamp I got from HcvCycle.
Dumbazz me did not read the web site page. These are for the "Disk Brake"
model of the RD250. They are too wide for my "Drum (dumb me) Brake".
More on that later after my embarassssment wears off.
So far, looking pretty good.
Next is to fit the wheels so I can get it off the work bench.
I need to upload some of these pictures to PhotoBucket so they are larger
and clearer......just too lazy after several days of hard work around the house.
Hope you enjoy the teazer pictures.
Cheers, Jeff
Well?.... she's a roller. Got the wheels installed as well as the
chrome fenders, Air, Battery box and Rect/Reg.
Clip-ons and headlight ears. I left the protective covers on the
Ikon Shocks, for now.
Hope Ya'all enjoy.
Jeff
:clap:
looks great. side note, swap clip-ons from left to right, the bars should point down, they appear to be pointing up in the pic. :twocents:
thats going to be one clean build. :metal:
Thanks Mark for the suggestion. Yes, as is, they are rather flat.
I plan the swap and flip them, try all the possible positions till I
find what feels ( works ) best.
I have an old pair of TeleFix clipons that can be adjusted in about
any angle and direction on could think of. Only problem, they are for
a set of 37mm fork tubes.
Cheers, Jeff
Quote from: m in sc on August 21, 2019, 03:28:31 PM
looks great. side note, swap clip-ons from left to right, the bars should point down, they appear to be pointing up in the pic. :twocents:
thats going to be one clean build. :metal:
Are you keeping the Butterfly Blue?
Absolutely. It's my favorite color. Plus the tank(s) and side panel are
in really good shape for a 46 y/o bike. Heck, it sat in a garage for 40
of those years.
With the exception of the clipons and headlight ears and shocks. I will
try my best to return it as close to stock condition as possible......Well
the Excel Shouldered rims were an upgrade I fell in love with.
Cheers, Jeff
You might want to consider putting in some stops on the triple so the clipons can't dent your tank. Some people have used screws for this. There's more info here if you want it.
Yep! I swapped and flopped the clipons this morning to find the
best position possible.
I have ample room for both my hands and the (fork clamps) to clear
the tank at full turn. Maybe 3/8 to 1/2" clearance.
If it had a "tank slapper" and the forks twisted in the triples, I guess
you could contact the tank, but, it would take one hell of a twist to do that.
I am always grateful for all observations and suggestions. Keep'em coming. :patriot:
Jeff
Quote from: so-cal-sdr200 on August 22, 2019, 03:11:36 PM
Yep! I swapped and flopped the clipons this morning to find the
best position possible.
I have ample room for both my hands and the (fork clamps) to clear
the tank at full turn. Maybe 3/8 to 1/2" clearance.
If it had a "tank slapper" and the forks twisted in the triples, I guess
you could contact the tank, but, it would take one hell of a twist to do that.
I am always grateful for all observations and suggestions. Keep'em coming. :patriot:
Jeff
Glad the bars have plenty of clearance. Keep up the progress!
PM Joe spooner and get a set of his rearsets made...
Stock foot rests and clip-ons don't go very well unless your GUMMBY!
Your doing some very nice work!
Chuck
Tell me more about Mr. Joe.. And his rear sets! His he a member here, does he have a shop/business?
Or just a machine specialist? Yes, I was wondering about the Gumby issue if I was to go with the
stock foot pegs.
Since I am using the stock upper triple clamp, I could go back to using a regular handlebar set up
rather easy if the clipons turn out to be a hassle.
I would like to use rear sets, but, all the ones I see are rigid (solid) mounts. I would like a set that
fold up. One for ease of use for the stock kick start and if the bike ever happens to fall over. Heaven
forbid!!! Vintage Smoke are the only set I have seen that fold.
And thank you for the compliment! I appreciate that from a man with a much talent as you have.
Cheers, Jeff
Quote from: SUPERTUNE on August 23, 2019, 08:35:03 AM
PM Joe spooner and get a set of his rearsets made...
Stock foot rests and clip-ons don't go very well unless your GUMMBY!
Your doing some very nice work!
Chuck
He's on here as Jspooner I have a set and they look like they were from the factory. I used OEM rear pegs for the front. Yea they do fold, price is reasonable too.
Edit: I guess you can't see the pegs that well from that pic, you get the point though.
Very nice indeed. Something nice about that 1/4 litre.
Cheers, 50gary
Last update was about 6 weeks ago. Making slow progress, but, progress all the same.
Since giving my engine to the famous Mr, Ed to perform some magic. I have completed
the installation of the wiring harness, battery box, air box. All the gages and headlight.
Hooked up the speedometer cable and front brake cable and levers to the handlebars.
Put on the tank and seat just to give it a more complete look.
She is now sitting in the living room as some static art waiting on Horse power.
I did end up buying the Fast From The Past rear sets. Not exactly what I wanted, but,
could not get a hold of Nick from Vintage Smoke. I did not want to have to use the stock
foot passenger foot peg brackets. What the heck. I can cut off the U shape hanger
brackets for the rear pegs. Since the FFTP brackets do not have provision to mount the
stock exhaust pipes.
I picked up some CRG Lane Splitter bar end mirrors. Should add a tasteful look.
More pictures available is anyone is interested.
More to come when I get the motor back from EE.
Cheers, Jeff
Wow, It has been over 6 months since I bumped this thread.
Progress has been slow for various reasons, but, I have the
modified cylinders back from EE, and the O-Ring / Squish
modified heads from Mr. Clough.
Sent the set off the Swain Tech in NY for their BBE thermal
coating process. And the result is shown in the accompanying
picture. Mr EE has the cylinders out for final bore and hone.
We anticipate starting the final assemble to start soon.
Cheers, Jeff
Super nice :olaf: keep goin' :metal:
Well.... just under a month between updates, but, this one is a biggie. At least to me.
Here is a sample of the fine work performed by the famous Mr. Ed
I am going to be so happy to install this beauty in the waiting frame. :whoop:
I see a light on the horizon on this year long project.
Cheers, Jeff
:vroom: Making steady progress.
Need to install the exhaust, rear set controls, oil pump, cables and a few
odds and ends before we fire it up.
Thanks to EE for the motor build. Sure looks sweet.
Cheers, Jeff
:metal: Looking great Jeff! Rippers is ready to ride it! :vroom:
man thats pretty. :clap:
3 1/2 months since the last post.
A lot of that was waiting for the rebuilt oil pump and the missing worm gear
thrust washer that Partzilla took weeks to deliver. Only to find my '73 RD250
does not use that washer... :bang: Wasted days.
The most recent issue was that I pinched the rear tube installing the BT45.
Damn toughest tire I have ever tried to mount to a rim...
So a couple days ago, new tube, and again the worst damn tire to break the
bead and remove / replace the tube. Success!
Now I am having trouble with the rebuilt oil pump. ( see Chuck's oil pump thread )
I will follow up with the repair / fix here or in a new oil pump thread.
Still need to add acid to the battery, and fluids when the pump is working.
Fingers crossed first start up this weekend or next week.
So for the obligatory picture update... From my backyard yesterday.
Cheers, Jeff
Bike looks amazing, well done.
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
You've done a great job, can't wait for the ride report!
She is pretty
Problem solved: PM Sent to Arrow, this is a copy.
:whoop: :clap: :busey:
You may get a laugh out of this.....wait for it....
The roll pin in the adjuster pulley was pushed in too deep.
It was catching on the pump piston and binding it up.. :bang:
I completely disassembled the pump. Inspected and cleaned up every
little bit of debris, not much, and put it back together. I made the same
mistake that the re-builder did. Installed the roll pin in too deep.
It worked fine till I installed the adjuster pulley and installed the pin.
Backed the pin out .005" - ? and it works fine.
Zoom in on the picture. Not sure anyone can tell from it, but, there it is.
One item of note and a bit of luck. The tiny detent pins that engage the drive
gear, and are spring loaded, popped out and landed on the large towel I was
using on the work bench. That could have gone sooo wrong. Were a PIA to get
back in and properly locate that gear.
Tested the fluid flow, both outputs seem to be even.
Time to get the bike together and finish up the last remaining little things.
Thanks for your suggestions and guidance.
Jeff
Result.
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Nice! :cheers: glad you got it resolved Jeff
You were fortunate to not lose the tiny pins and springs from the gear. Lady luck was on your side.
The latest :bang:. Put 1 1/2 qts of injector oil in the tank and the sight glass window leaks.
I can't catch a break.
New one on order.
Is it 5:00 O-clock somewhere? :guinness:
Looking like I may not have a running bike for the Hooligan 2-stroke show.
I've definitely done the same with the roll pin...
For maximum security I fit the roll pin with the tapered end, but it ends up full diameter all the way through the hole/top casting with no tapered end, works well.
Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
I am at a complete loss to figure out why I am not getting spark to my left side cylinder.
SoCal250 came over and we set the point gap(s) and set the ignition timing as close
to 1.8 BTDC on each point set as possible. He used the dial gage to set the piston height.
and a little 12VDC light to turn on when the point gap opened.
New Yausa battery fully charged. Added gas and gave it a kick, or two and the RD started
on the Right side cylinder only.
Things I've tried so far.:
1. Changed spark plug to another new one.
2. Checked orange wire continuity from the point plate to the coil = Okay.
3. swapped the left and right coil set, including plug wire and plug cap.
4. just for the heck of it, I added grounding wires from the studs that mount the
coils to the frame. My frame has been powder coated and the coils would not
see ground if they needed it. Which I don't think they do.
[Edit:]
5. changed condenser with a new one from Economy.
Still only runs on the Right side cylinder.
Only thing I can think of is there is a problem with the left side point plate itself.
[Edit:] I have a new set of points, but, would have to re-gap and re-time with gage tool.
Visually left set appears to be in great shape and looks no different than the other point set.
OR!! The carbon brush(s) are failing.
I do not fully understand how this system works and if the brushes could cause
my problem.
Does the Rectifier / Regulator system have any effect on the Ignition system?
Also, I do not think it does. I believe they are independent.
Before I drop the $$ on an electronic ignition system I would like to figure out my problem.
Thanks, Jeff
Gas? Is the left plug wet?
Yes, gas.
Pull plug, grounded to head... no spark.
Thanks, Jeff
Quote from: so-cal-sdr200 on October 06, 2020, 09:14:23 PM
Yes, gas.
Pull plug, grounded to head... no spark.
Thanks, Jeff
First, try running a file or fine sandpaper over the points itself. Burnt points means no spark.
Next, make sure that the left side set of points aren't grounding out. If you have spark on one side your brushes are fine.
Points like to ground between the points spring and the pivot pin. The plastic insulators gets brittle over time and can crack. They can also be misaligned, allowing the spark to jump to ground.
Thank you for the suggestions. I used 800 grt paper and matchbook paper to clean the points.
They look fine to my eye. The plastic / fiberglass followers that ride on the cam lobe also looks
to be in good condition. I can take a pic and post it up here if anyone might see something that
(me), Captain Obvious, might have missed.
I will inspect the left side points even closer for any possible grounding.
And as a last resort replace the point sets with the new ones I have. Will have to invite my
friend So-Cal-250 back with his dial indicator kit to re-time the ignition.
Thanks for the tip in the carbon brushes. I was hoping they were not the problem.
Hopefully I will have a positive update soon.
Cheers, Jeff
Update:
Not sure what I did, and not sure it is a permanent fix, but, I got spark. Might be intermittent.
See pickture:
I removed the two screws holding on the carbon brushes, green wire and the brown insulated
cover for the green and orange wires being held by the clamp on the right side of the
brush assembly. The clamp looked to be binding the insulated cover before this pic was taken.
I cleaned the copper rotor and the carbon brushes with a paper towel and reinstalled everything.
Turn on the key and I get spark in the left cylinder. First couple kicks seemed to be intermittent,
but, now it seems to be consistent.
I'll need to check again, but that clamp might have cut through the insulation on the orange wire
from the left side points.
Will have to re-install the tank etc... and see if it will start.
Wish me luck.
Jeff
Quote from: so-cal-sdr200 on October 07, 2020, 02:13:21 PM
Turn on the key and I get spark in the left cylinder.
:whoop:
Seems to be running on both cyl's. Both pipes getting warm, (hot). :vroom:
Taking off from an idle the bike boggs giving it throttle till the R's get to maybe
2K and then it takes off. Around 4K RPM the clutch slips and the motor rips to
6-7K before I can pull the clutch lever in. :bang:
Guessing I have a jetting issue. Both mains and pilots are brand new and carbs
cleaned and rebuilt. Think the pilot is #35 and mains are #150. running larger
than stock sizes on the recommendation of my engine builder. So far maybe 5 min
of run time on the new motor in two thermal cycles. And 1 mile of 1, 2nd and one 3rd
gear run up the street.
So seems I have a new problem... Using fresh Motul TechnoSynt gear oil.
More to follow... Thanks.
Jeff
What are your air screws turned out to?
35 pilot is what I have in my 350 setup on a Dave F mod. My air screws are at 1 turn out basically. But, that's what felt ok on my off the line throttle. May even need bigger myself.
But. You're air screws will determine off the line performance.
My air screws are set at 1.5 turns out. Next time I start the bike I will try adjusting them in
and out in 1/2 turn increments.
One possible issue.... The other day when I was not getting spark and trying to start the bike.
I let it sit over night and the carbs started weeping around the float bowl gaskets and had a
little gas in the overflow hose's.
So I bent the float tabs to reduce the float height and may have gone too far. Maybe I am having
a lean condition at the pilot jets? Although it does idle fine and starts with 1/2 a kick through.
Wish all my bikes started this easy.
As a side note. I am running the rebuilt stock injector pump, Honda GN2 injector oil, and initially
mixing Motul 800 @ 40:1 till I am sure the pump is working correctly.
Still think I need the replace the points and re-time, just to eliminate that possible problem.
The clutch slipping is going to be a bigger issue that I need to discuss with my engine builder.
He installed a whole new basket, pressure plate, clutch plates / springs etc...
Thanks for following my journey.
Sitting on the sidestand overnight a little gas weeping out of the lower carb is normal. A pool of gas under the bike on the center stand or side stand isn't.
Setting FUEL height is more important than float height. Evans Ward sells a kit to aid in adjusting the actual fuel height. It's not that hard and works well. Setting the float height is the standard method but not the preferred way. In either case, the measurements should come close to matching and not be eye-balled if you can help it.
I guess it is time for an update...
The RD250 is more or less finished. I have put around 100+ miles on
it so far.
Seems tweeking the orange point wire and replacing the points and condenser
has fixed the spark on the left cyl issue.
With the 35 pilot / 150 main with the needle in the middle clip. The bike had a very
pronounced bog from low RPM into mid-range. I dropped the clip, raised the needle to
this richest level and the bog mostly disappeared. But the bike would not pull above 5K RPM
in 5th / 6th gear.
I figured that the Needle jet was too lean. Stock it is a O-8. So I ordered two new sizes.
A P-0 and a P-2. Installed the P-2. Figuring I might be too rich with the needle clip in the
bottom groove, I moved it to the 2nd from the top. Thinking the 35 was also too rich as adjusting
the air screw seemed to make no RPM difference I dropped in a pair of 32.5 pilots.
( I know... never change more that one thing at a time!) I'm not done. Since stock was 120 main
I had a 150 in there. Thinking it was too rich to pull above 5K RPM I dropped the main to 145.
So? The mid-bog was back, but it pulled well into 6-7K RPM once it got beyond the stumble...
Put the clip in the middle position and the bog was reduced, but, not as crisp as I think it should.
And with the 32.5 I do not get a pronounced rpm shift moving the air screw from 1-1/2 turns either.
Confused... Through all of this the plug colors have remained a fairly nice tan to a slight lean look.
Kind of chasing my tail, but yesterday was warmer, (82F) and the bike seemed to pull stronger
than the last test ride in the mid 60F's.
Guess I will drop the needle clip one more groove, 2nd from bottom, and see if it improves more.
Suggestions are always welcome BTW....
P.S. Was looking for the torque spec for the head bolts / stud nuts and could not find it in the manual.
Can some one let me know? Thinking it is around 18-20 FT/LB, but, don't want to screw up.
Thanks, Jeff
Merry Day-After Christmas!
18 ft lbs on the head won't hurt it. Stock was I think 15.
If the bike is pulling harder in the 80's temp-wise than in the 60's, be aware that a 2T motor in the cold usually runs leaner due to the air density changing. To check this, when riding in those lower temps, reach down and turn the choke on (safely! lol, don't get hit by Joe Turd-burglar. on his phone). If the bike starts pulling and making power, you are lean on your main jet. If it stumbles and bogs out, then the mixture is rich on the main.
Remember, Lean is Mean, but Rich is Reliable.
My guess is you have a bike running rich. But the change in emulsion tube would for sure mess with things. That's getting closer to jetting voodoo for me and I leave that to the experts on here.
Jeff,
Striker is correct. Factory recommended torque is 180 in-lbs (which is 15 ft-lbs.). I have always torqued just a little more. Cylinder nuts should always be retorqued after initial heat cycling.
From the factory Yamaha manual, RD250/RD350 1972-75 (LIT-11613-61-02):
Cylinder head nuts should be loosened and tightened in a "cross" pattern and in progressive stages with final torque of 180 in-lbs. (2 m-kg).
FYI - I have added factory torque specs for RD model cylinder heads in the Tech Library under "Yamaha Service Data"
Thanks guys. I eventually found the torque table on page 46 of the .pdf Clymer manual.
It showed 8mm = 15-18 Ft/Lb and 10mm = 25 - 30 Ft/Lb. I was wondering if the
studs were 8mm or 10mm, couldn't remember when it was apart.
I have an old 1/2" drive, spring loaded torque wrench that I am not super confident
in it's accuracy. Will give it a try on a larger bolt / nut set at 18ft/lb and see is it feels
close.
Next step back to the jetting.
When taking off from a stop, adding the choke seemed to improve the stumble.
Easiest would be to raise the needle one more groove. after that.....
I may go back to the 35 pilot and up the main one size more.
Cheers folks and Happy New Years.
Quote from: so-cal-sdr200 on December 28, 2020, 11:50:34 AM
Thanks guys. I eventually found the torque table on page 46 of the .pdf Clymer manual.
It showed 8mm = 15-18 Ft/Lb and 10mm = 25 - 30 Ft/Lb. I was wondering if the
studs were 8mm or 10mm, couldn't remember when it was apart.
I have an old 1/2" drive, spring loaded torque wrench that I am not super confident
in it's accuracy. Will give it a try on a larger bolt / nut set at 18ft/lb and see is it feels
close.
That passage from the Clymer manual is an error. I found that too when looking through all my service manuals. That section is actually for the engine mounting bolts and it is listed on pg 15 of the factory manual. I've attached the 2 pages with the torque values.
Just thought I'd toss out the latest picture of my finished project.
Still messing around with the jetting, it ain't quite right yet.
Cheers, Jeff
That's a great looking RD250!...and with the front drum brake too!
Looks very good indeed. Hoping my long time 73 RD250 project turns out as nice as yours!
Well done...
Excellent thread.. I learned a few things that will help me in my R5 build.
You built a beautiful bike..