Suddenly lost shifting

[92stroker]

Hey guys, looking for some ideas on this.  Just starting to ride this thing after a prolonged case swap and lots of little repairs.  The bike has been running great (still need to work out the jetting) around the neighborhood, has made the trip to the store and the gas station under it's own power, so earlier this week I took it to work and had a flawless ride home.  The bike seems to be running better and better, and today I took it to work again, then made a couple extra stops on the way home.

So everything's great, then I seem to miss a shift, finding a "false neutral" between 3 and 4.  No biggy, hit it again and ride on.  Then it progressively gets harder and harder to successfully shift from 2-3 and 3-4, giving me a false neutral maybe 1 out of 3 shifts.  Then it just wont shift up from 3-4, the shift lever physically wont budge beyond 3rd.  Then 3rd starts fighting me until it wont shift physically make that change, and so on, until I ride home about 7 miles in the bike lane in 1st gear.  I stopped at o'Reilly's on the way and checked my gearbox level, and it seemed a tad low but not much.  There was fluid on the tip of the dip stick after dipping but not threading.  I added maybe 3 oz and continued on my way.  I did get 2nd back after that, but still locked above that.  I've been using the Lucas semi-synth 10-40 wet clutch motorcycle oil.

If you search my name 92stroker you'll find a recent thread asking for help with pawl plate orientation.  I had tested this thing multiple times and it went through all the gears on the bench, stopping below 1st and above 6th as it should.  I've put about 45 miles on it and everything worked perfectly until today.

I'm hoping that it works after a good cool off but I'm not betting on it.  If so I'll have to try a different oil.

Any thoughts?  I assume I'm just gonna have to drain it and pulled the cover to look at the shift claw and drum assembly.

[Aloha808]

I had a similar problem with my Daytona.  I got stuck in 2nd gear.  Then struggled to get it back into 1st gear wear it got stuck for good.  I pulled the right side case off.  I noticed one of the sprockets lost a tooth.  I found the tooth.  It was wedged in just the right place.  It would not allow the gear shift mechanism to do its thing.    I removed it.  Luckily I had a back up spare parts engine and was able to replace the sprocket that had the broken tooth.  Everything was fine after that.  Until, I blew the engine zooming home from work. 

FYI- I am far from being a mechanic.  Maybe this might help.

Good luck.

[92stroker]

Haha thanks!  And dont sell yourself short, if you are able to pull the cover and clutch assembly to diagnose something like this I certainly wouldn't describe you "far from a mechanic"! 

Anyways, got as far as getting the cover off before "duty called".  Maybe later tonight when duty goes to bed I'll run out to the garage and pull the clutch off to see what's going on.  There was a small amount of metal on the magnet and some flakes in the oil, but I dont think it's anything really bad.  Especially since the shift drum and kicker aren't supported by bearings.  We shall see.

[motodreams]

Have to get that cover off before you will know anything.  It is likely related to the shift mechanism and not the actual transmission.  80% chance.  Oil won't help that. and easy fixes.

[92stroker]

Well I seemed to have fixed it, but I dont know how, which worries me.  Pulled the cover, and clutch.  A small piece of black plastic fell out when I pull the clutch, but no idea where it came from and I was pretty attentive while putting this thing together.  I'm thinking maybe there was some debris trapped inside my funnel when I filled the case.  Odd thing is, it wasnt trapped in the shifter assembly as far as i can tell, but it was large enough to interfere, had it been.

Anyways i pulled the assembly apart and messed with it, put it back together and now it works.  I also found that one of the springs for the claw wasnt in place, but not sure if that happened during disassembly. 

At this point it shifts into all the gears, although it is "sticky" at times - this is while spinning the rear wheel by hand until the dogs time, so I guess that's to be expected. 

Are there any elements of the gear change assembly that will impact shifting quality with wear?

[SUPERTUNE]

I'm always a proponent of a high end specific 2 stroke oil as RD's do have a problem if ever run low on oil.
They will get seizure on the gears to the shaft if borderline on lubrication
Chuck

[m in sc]

look for a chip on your dipstick end. glad ya found it, i think.

did you have the thin washer behind the shift arm and the case on the shaft? that one can cause fits if its missing ( i think thats rd and not triples)

[92stroker]

I'm always a proponent of a high end specific 2 stroke oil as RD's do have a problem if ever run low on oil.
They will get seizure on the gears to the shaft if borderline on lubrication
Chuck

I'm open to suggestions!  I get the Lucas stuff because its readily available in my area... I use the 10-40 semi synth gear oil, and also the synth 2 stroke oil.

look for a chip on your dipstick end. glad ya found it, i think.

did you have the thin washer behind the shift arm and the case on the shaft? that one can cause fits if its missing ( i think thats rd and not triples)

I looked for a chip and didn't find one, I'm pretty sure the plastic was foreign.  Just dont know how it got there.  I did have the washer in place, though.

Got the bike back together and took it for a quick ride up the street and shifted through all six gears up and down buttery smooth, so the problem is fixed, just hope it doesnt come back!

[2 Stroke Jamoke]

I think I know where the black plastic came from. I think it is a piece of the cushions on the back of the basket. I dont think it will effect the shifting but it is a good sign that your rubber cushions are worn and deteriorating. I had to replace mine, it's a little bit involved but you can do it.

[92stroker]

I think I know where the black plastic came from. I think it is a piece of the cushions on the back of the basket. I dont think it will effect the shifting but it is a good sign that your rubber cushions are worn and deteriorating. I had to replace mine, it's a little bit involved but you can do it.

That's an interesting theory, I've never seen the results of failed clutch basket insulators.  I think the piece I found was too large to have worked it's way out from behind the clutch basket anywhere I can see, but I guess it's possible.  My clutch basket does have some play.  The little piece I found, though, had five sides of a perfect cube with the sixth surface appearing to have been snapped off of something.  Doesn't really add up to any engine component I can think of.

Also, the issue came back. 

So after I took it all apart, not finding anything definitive, I put it back together, filled the case back up, and took it up and down the street.  Did this a couple days in a row back to back, and everything was working beautifully.  Today I decided to ride to work since my test rides had been smooth.  Well, it didn't go great.  About 15 or 20 minutes in, the shifting started getting sticky again.  First to second about 40-50% miss on first attempt, 30-40% on second attempt, and second to third, 100% miss on first attempt, probably 90% on third attempt, to the point where I'd have to down shift all the way back into first and try again.  So now I'm at work, hoping that maybe its a heat issue and the bike just doesn't like the gear oil I'm using.  If that's the case I guess I can expect it to shift well after sitting all day, and start giving me problems when I'm most the way home.  The first time it happened, it was also after having been riding for 20 or so minutes straight.

[Jspooner]

I think you need to split the motor and pull the trans out, remove the gears from the shafts and examine the gears and shafts. Sounds like you have a gear or two binding or galling on a shaft when things heat up. Now that it has done it a few times I'm afraid no oil in the world is going to fix the problem.

[92stroker]

I think you need to split the motor and pull the trans out, remove the gears from the shafts and examine the gears and shafts. Sounds like you have a gear or two binding or galling on a shaft when things heat up. Now that it has done it a few times I'm afraid no oil in the world is going to fix the problem.

Definitely not what I want to hear =(

[Plasticman]

Your symptoms mimmick what my RD400 was doing. Had to send the transmission out to be rebuilt by R&D Motor Sports in Clearwater, FL (next door to Chuck).  While it was there I had them modify it for racing, as my RD is for road racing.

Good luck.

Rob

[92stroker]

look for a chip on your dipstick end. glad ya found it, i think.

did you have the thin washer behind the shift arm and the case on the shaft? that one can cause fits if its missing ( i think thats rd and not triples)

Back to this, I may have one last glimmer of hope.  I took the cover back off and ran back through the assembly procedure and realized that while I did install the shift shaft washer, I installed in the wrong place!  I had it installed behind the shift arm on the clutch cover side, but it looks like it's supposed to be installed on the primary/generator side, behind the e-clip.  So I switched it around and have yet to complete the re-assembly - just need to hook up the oil lines, install the pipes, and fill the case.  Should be able to test ride it tonight about an hour after I get home from work.

Wish me luck.

[92stroker]

Your symptoms mimmick what my RD400 was doing. Had to send the transmission out to be rebuilt by R&D Motor Sports in Clearwater, FL (next door to Chuck).  While it was there I had them modify it for racing, as my RD is for road racing.

Good luck.

Rob

Fingers crossed the issue is resolved!