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Johnny Cash Special - Suzonda 2smoker

Started by NoRiders, December 01, 2019, 03:16:33 PM

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NoRiders

Asking for help please guys.
Q: What are the symptoms of a failed centre crank seal?
I had new seals and bearing installed and the engine has run, I was on a road test when it spluttered to a halt...never to fire again???
I cannot for the life of me get the Suzuki GT200 to fire up.
I have fuel, carbs cleaned and a spark at the plugs when resting on the engine. It spins on the starter nicely with a full battery charge, but no ignition...nothing, nich, nada, zilch!!
I'm at the point where I'd happily pay someone to find/fix the problem and get it running again....I'm all out of ideas tbh.
Any suggestions please...before I burn it.


rodneya

Labyrinth seals are non contact so they dont wear out or get damaged unless a bearing goes or they are bashed during install. The motor should still run with a bad seal.

If you have spark and fuel,Double check compression and timing and then go onto carbs.
I rebuilt a little ktm 50 for my kids from parts. Thing refused to start until I turned the idle screw out. Then it fired right up.

PistonHoles

@noriders What did the plugs look like after the sputtering out? What is the condition of them when you put them in and try to start? Wet or dry? I have seen 2 strokes flood out the bottom end and you have to shut off the gas, pull the plugs, and crank at wide open throttle to dry them out. Making sure, of course that the sparks and spewing gas mist do not meet each other

RustyRD

#288
Are you running an oil pump or premix? I have had my fuel mixed with too much oil and my engine would not start after sputtering. Chased multiple issues and finally drained fuel and replenished with fresh properly mixed ratio, 32:1 for my set up and bike started.. just some food for thought. Timing sounds like a very likely culprit also. Might also do a compression check to rule it out. Be methodical and recheck all aspects of the system. I know it sounds like a pain, and it is. Components fail even when installed new. Don't let the thought that the part is new , so it can't be that ,,, bite you. Step back, deep breath, and regroup.

NoRiders

Quote from: RustyRD on August 20, 2022, 09:55:57 PM
Are you running an oil pump or premix? I have had my fuel mixed with too much oil and my engine would not start after sputtering. Chased multiple issues and finally drained fuel and replenished with fresh properly mixed ratio, 32:1 for my set up and bike started.. just some food for thought. Timing sounds like a very likely culprit also. Might also do a compression check to rule it out. Be methodical and recheck all aspects of the system. I know it sounds like a pain, and it is. Components fail even when installed new. Don't let the thought that the part is new , so it can't be that ,,, bite you. Step back, deep breath, and regroup.

Hi Rusty, been off the Suzonda for a while due to extreme pissed offedness. Thank you for your suggestions, having the bike at a local show, and receiving many positive remarks and interest I am setting about it again. Determined to get the f*cker running :)


NoRiders

Hi everyone...update:.....getting to the bottom of the engine non firing issue I think.

A weak spark turned into no spark, so thought the (new repro) coil might be faulty.....swapped it out for an old one I had....no difference...a very weak or no spark!
Decided to pop the gen cover off to check the flywheel hadn't slipped.....only to find a LOT of oil pour out. It can only be gearbox oil, so is there a small seal or orofice I've missed in the rebuild or is it that the (new) main crankshaft seals have failed?

Not looking forward to dropping out the engine for a complete strip down....but needs must :/

I'm told there should only be a mist of oil behind the gen case....not 1/2 a pint or more. Any advice appreciated chaps, cheers

m in sc

It could be anything from a crank seal to the case itself leaking where it comes together. might have to split the lower case half off to find it. but hopefully its simpler than that.

NoRiders

Thanks m in c....there was a leak from the head gasket, so low comp test at 35psi, both cylinders. But that shouldn't stop the engine at least starting? A new head gasket on order and I'll face off the head.

The GT200 was unique, from other Suzuki engines, in that it does run oil in the gen case, so no seal failure in respect of oil leaking past, but is crank seal are gone there wouldn't be much crankcase pressure ...hence why it won't start/fire.

Still working my way through each option/possible. :/


m in sc

i was wondering. Ive had a few GT250s and they def arent like that.

35 psi compression? Ive never been able to get one to run under 50 psi. heck my 100 twin ran like crap at 70 psi on one cyl, and that has a 38mm piston. lol.


RustyRD

Your bike is great looking, and glad to see that you have some renewed energy to devote to the bike. A pressure check of the engine could help narrow things down also.  I have encountered a problem with points on my kz650 , bike still runs but two cylinders not full song. One set of points has some additional resistance to ground when compared to the other pair. Faulty insulators on one set..
always something. I spent two weeks in Ireland this month and must say it was a great experience..
Try and keep an objective view on the troubleshooting of your bike, and you will prevail.

NoRiders

Quote from: RustyRD on September 28, 2022, 10:33:33 PM
Your bike is great looking, and glad to see that you have some renewed energy to devote to the bike. A pressure check of the engine could help narrow things down also.  I have encountered a problem with points on my kz650 , bike still runs but two cylinders not full song. One set of points has some additional resistance to ground when compared to the other pair. Faulty insulators on one set..
always something. I spent two weeks in Ireland this month and must say it was a great experience..
Try and keep an objective view on the troubleshooting of your bike, and you will prevail.
Thanks Rusty, The GT200 runs a CDi ignition fed by the generator....my next port of call to check the flywheel is secure. I really am so pissed with the bloody thing, but will persevere.... :/

NoRiders

Thread from the nearly dead. Apologies for not updating but I find Facebook to be easier these days.
An update ladies & gentlemen.
Finally bit the bullet and stripped the engine down to discover the centre seal was totally shreaded, destroyed to the max.
Pleased to find the non starting issue but perplexed as to how a fresh seal can be ruined in an hour's running time??
Anyhoo.....had the crank rebuilt with fresh seals but not bearings as they are brand new and intactus.
Please remember I am so pissed with it I begrudgingly work on it when I can muster the enthusiasm, which is easily distracted.
So, with every other component untouched, except the carbs I threw it back together.
I decided to have the carbs looked at and overhauled by a specialist as they came to me in a carrier bag, and although clean, I knew there were a couple of issues with O rings etc.
Well, they came back very much improved and set up, mainly having had a check of jetting (running a 97.5 main). Needles are not in the best shape as the slotted area has seem damage to the ring/clip area. Currently seeking new needles for a GT200/X5 carb if anyone knows of a supplier or has some in a drawer?
So, back to the start up. It fired after 3-4 attempts and ran ok.
Since then I have run it down the road to warm it up and reset the needles to lowest clip setting as it was bogging down on part throttle as it's still running in.
A tweek of the airscrew has it throttling up quite crisply and this is where it's currently at.
I'll gradually put a few miles on it as I venture forth further and further from home.
I plan to debut it at a well served local meet, Cassington Bike Night nr Oxford UK see hundreds of bikes turn up....I'm hoping to get there in time to claim a spot on the 'green' to show it off. :)

One destroyed centre seal. It has shifted along the crank journal and made contact with the crank web, which spun it up. The case was polished and the rubber edge resembled a tyre after a burnout!


Random images of an engine be rebuilt>




Back in the frame. Very pleased with my upper forward engine mount wot I made as it had a kink to allow access to the exhaust flange bolts.


Overhauled carbs look smart. the list of defects was quite long, including bent float bridge, incorrect air bleed O rings and even float bowl warpage.






Rehanging the Microns so they are as symetrical as they can be.


My double rose joint dog bone bracket works extremely well, really like that part. You can just see it in this shot, I didn't want to chop the original RD350LC mounting bracket.


So, I'm now riding it again and looking forward to it lasting a bit longer than before.
It's alsoo in it's second bike show on 2nd July at Thruxton Race Circuit, Andover UK as part of the line up for Kickback Thruxton Show.
Sadly, not able to run a lap but to have it runing will be much better than the previous show.

That's about it as a round up, thanks for reading this far...peace out, ride safe.

m in sc

yeah man! all dressed up and ready to dance.  looks great  :toot:

85RZwade

Great to hear from you again, Colin, and happy you found resolution
I post waayyy too much

NoRiders

Quote from: m in sc on June 24, 2023, 09:55:38 AMyeah man! all dressed up and ready to dance.  looks great  :toot:

Thanks, it broke down on the way to a local annual biker meet where I had hoped to debut it...sadly, I didn't spot a wire off the fusebox....blagged a cheerful lift home in the back of an Amazon Prime delivery van, bundled in the back with me propped up and holding the front brake on...fun times :)