"Speed Shifting"

pidjones · May 15, 2021, 12:37:30 PM

My left CMC joint (Very base of thumb) has some rather painful arthritis and I have to wear a brace on it to reduce pain. I can sit at a light or whatever holding the clutch in with little problem, but shifting up through the gears sometimes pinches my hand between the brace and the hand grip and the range of motion required passes through a painful spot. Is it Ok to speed shift (clutchless shift timed with slight backing off gas momentarily) up through the gears from 2nd on up to 6th (RD400c)? I intend to continue clutching on down-shifts, but with the narrow power band (even that of the 400) I find that I am shifting a lot more than on my old GoldWings. I have tried it a few times and it seems to be effortless and smooth. It sure makes the hand feel better, too.

Yamaha 179 · May 15, 2021, 12:54:52 PM

OK, I don't mean to be ugly, but this is going to come out that way; why in heaven's name would you sit at a traffic light with your transmission in gear waiting for the light to change? Sounds like a HD rider to me! You shouldn't be doing that with your RD and if you have trouble finding neutral at a dead stop you should do so as you coast up to the light shifting down from second gear. Most racers learned that they can't find neutral on the start line and start trying to find it as they coast to their grid position. The problem is exacerbated by the the rear sets they use but removing the black, rubber cushion rings in the clutch basket also worsens the clutch plate separation problem.

A lot of racers I know do not use the clutch on the up-shift. One very, very successful guy is like that. I also replace gears for him every year. Of course, you aren't as hard on them as he is, but these old bikes are not like the new ones; use the clutch.
Lyn Garland

pidjones · May 15, 2021, 02:26:04 PM

Quote from: Yamaha 179 on May 15, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
OK, I don't mean to be ugly, but this is going to come out that way; why in heaven's name would you sit at a traffic light with your transmission in gear waiting for the light to change? Sounds like a HD rider to me! You shouldn't be doing that with your RD and if you have trouble finding neutral at a dead stop you should do so as you coast up to the light shifting down from second gear. Most racers learned that they can't find neutral on the start line and start trying to find it as they coast to their grid position. The problem is exacerbated by the the rear sets they use but removing the black, rubber cushion rings in the clutch basket also worsens the clutch plate separation problem.

A lot of racers I know do not use the clutch on the up-shift. One very, very successful guy is like that. I also replace gears for him every year. Of course, you aren't as hard on them as he is, but these old bikes are not like the new ones; use the clutch.
Lyn Garland

Thanks, Lyn. I guess that this is a bad habit that I got into riding my GL1800 which has a hydraulic clutch and is pretty easy to hold. Plus, going to neutral at a light is a good way to get rear-ended around here! We always have to be ready to jump out of the way (served me well once when I heard squealing tires and lurched up beside the pickup that had been in front of me as a daydreamer skidded up to within two feet of the truck's bumper.)

~JM~ · May 15, 2021, 04:03:03 PM

Quote from: pidjones on May 15, 2021, 02:26:04 PM...Plus, going to neutral at a light is a good way to get rear-ended around here! We always have to be ready to jump out of the way (served me well once when I heard squealing tires and lurched up beside the pickup that had been in front of me as a daydreamer skidded up to within two feet of the truck's bumper.)

YEP!!!!

Watch that mirror for the blind drivers behind you.

soonerbillz · May 15, 2021, 05:40:51 PM

I have clutchless shifted up and down on all my bikes. Never found a issue after getting used to the rpm needed to do so. It's as Lynn said unnecessary to hold in gear at lights.. of even on the grids..as soon as the lights come down shift down and go.
And finding neutral is easier while the primary is in movement.

Seizer · May 15, 2021, 07:34:29 PM

There are people who have fabbed up hydraulic clutch conversions. I think Mark has done it iirc.

pdxjim · May 15, 2021, 07:46:24 PM

Vintage bikes I use the clutch, modern bikes no clutch up and down the box.

Striker1423 · May 17, 2021, 02:34:29 PM

Yea, I never tick up into Neutral at a light. I don't trust the smartphone users all around me to see me, especially when I'm stopped.

m in sc · May 17, 2021, 03:05:35 PM

you can speed shit with a blip of the throttle, no issues.

also, set your lever where you fingers naturally rest, not UP too far like 80% of the bikes i see, causes unnecessary strain and pain.

and yes, keep it in N at lights.

teazer · May 18, 2021, 04:11:33 PM

For upshifts, back off the throttle small amount to unload the gears and snick it up to the next one. Downshifts take more finesse and not recommended for situations where there's traffic. Just jam on the brakes, pull in the clutch and drop down as many gears as you need to. Brakes are made for braking, clutches and two stroke motors, not so much.

For the drag strip us a CO2 bottle, solenoid and ram and it will up shift at WOT for as many shifts as there's gas in the bottle. We use the horn button to shift BUT if you need to use the horn, you will upshift instead. There's not enough time to flip the horn/shift switch and then hit the horn.

Again for upshifts you could use what's known as a window switch that activates the air shifter at certain RPM but to short shift you have to hit the button or back out of the throttle.

If/when your thumb gets worse take a look at Pingel electric shifter that can shift up and down and fit a button in the space that a starter button would be on a 4 stroke.

pidjones · May 18, 2021, 10:17:36 PM

I have a friend with Pingel on his GL1800 trike (he has no legs). Doubt I'll ever need that. Just need to reduce the wear on that joint some. The Spyder thumb-shifts but requires very little force (it's just a switch). I'm thinking about surgery, but that would have to happen at a minimum riding period like late November.

Striker1423 · May 18, 2021, 11:21:55 PM

Forgive me for asking... But what's the reason for neutral at lights on these old bikes? Clutch wear?

sav0r · May 19, 2021, 07:58:29 AM

I think it's because people have issues finding neutral.

85RZwade · May 19, 2021, 09:13:58 AM

If I can see a whole lot of nothing behind me, I'll sit in neutral. Otherwise, I prefer to be able to get out of harm's way immediately. The down side of this is that poor little ball down in the clutch actuation, spinning away with minimal lubrication and maximum pressure. RZs are known to weld said ball to the shaft that pushes it. I see it as a trade off.

Jspooner · May 19, 2021, 01:34:03 PM

I've been doing it for years and never had an issue on any motorcycle I've ever ridden. The only time I go into neutral when sitting is if I'm in traffic that is literally moving just a few feet at a time, then its easier to just push it. Or, if I need my left hand for something other than holding in the clutch.

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"Speed Shifting"