Threading titanium

[rodneya]

I cant seem to find a straight answer online.
Will I be able to extend the threads on a M10 titanium bolt using a hand die?

[Arrow]

It will be very hard on the die. Titanium is normally cut with carbide tools.

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[m in sc]

this is true. ive single-pointed a few on a lathe and it was a BITCH to get right.  I've run a die over them as well and it bikes and drags and sticks really hard. My eventual solution was to get a longer bolt then cut it down.  way easier. 

[rodneya]

I need 250mm bolt, but the size I can find is 280mm which I could cut down. problem is only the last 20mm or so of bolt is threaded so the threads would need to be cut longer.
I dont think my little lathe is up to the task of cutting fine thread. way too much slop in all the parts so maybe Ill just make up some thick aluminum washer / spacer for each end.

[m in sc]

i'm not exactly sure what you are doing application wise... but when i made the axles for the lightweight, i single-pointed one side and drilled and tapped the other side. (out of titanium rod).  point being... can you cut the head side off, and drill and tap a large head m6 or m8 bolt or one with a washer on that side?  I never did finish that project, made the front but not the rear.. yet. still in a box. Some ducati hollow axles were made this way. .02

[sav0r]

Why titanium at all? You can make something nearly as light out of steel. Unless you are at MotoGP level what does Titanium even gain?

[m in sc]

not bolts you cant. I shaved pounds off my lightweight using titanium hardware everywhere. and they dont rust. 

[rodneya]

I want to use them for engine mount bolts for my Katana. The weight saving does help (its a pretty heavy bike), and not rusting is a plus, but I really like the look, especially the dished flange bolt heads.

[sav0r]

Center drill a steel bolt and you get nearly the same result. Titanium is a terrible deal.

When you get into Ti levels of weight loss you might as well get some inconel pipes and  a carbon fiber space frame. If you ate at McDonalds in the last year you've already negated the benefits of Ti on your build. Unfortunately that burger is way cheaper than the bolts.

[m in sc]

not always true, i did test that. My street legal monospine rd is 241 lbs (actual weighed on a calibrated material scale) with 1.25 gallons of fuel in the tank, as ridden. I've seen less claimed on other rds... but knowing what stuff actually weighs on these bikes, most claims are bullshit or wild speculation. i did use aluminum where i could, ie: the head bolts. on those to me the extra cost vs al vs ti wasnt worth it. that alone saved well over a lb.   the hadware alone save close to 5 lbs overall. I had a goal and beat it. for me, was worth it.

It helps, i am 100% sure of that, so we can agree to disagree. But i played this game ti vs drilled steel, did the homework, and the ti always wins at the end of the day. full confession though: i used 4 individual class 12.9 bolts for the front motor mount bolts, didn't want that getting hammered.

But to make it really count, you need to do everything you comfortably can. That originally included the axles. however, it is almost too light now, so i stopped where i was, was something close to half a lb on the rear alone if i would have kept going.

should everybody do it? oh hell no, its ridiculously expensive and time consuming.   I didn't care about the $ so off i went.  But center-drilling a 250mm long bolt isn't really feasible, at all. its going to drift. dom (if available in 10mm) tubing with 2 nuts would be my choice if not going ti.


maybe just get some thick 10mm ti washers for the head side and 'space' it out a bit. ?

[sav0r]

At last measure my RD was 269lbs, with a full tank of fuel, with a really shit tank and the stock ignition. This is measured on proper Longacre digital scales.  I'm sure I'll lose more when I install the new ignition. Yes, the sub frame is aluminum. Otherwise there's nothing exotic about it. Plenty of others have done similar builds. All the fasteners are steel. I prefer proper AN bolts where I can use them.

Center drilling a long bolt is pretty feasible if you consider that you don't actually need to drill the entire length. Even a small lathe will suffice. I drilled my axles about 80% of their length. They lost practically no strength but are a good bit lighter than stock.

If welding a Ti axle is feasible, then welding a thin wall steel axle is feasible too. There is good reason why a lot of high performance aerospace and race car parts are still fabricated steel. There are plenty of applications for Ti, but it's mostly flagellation in pedestrian applications.

[m in sc]

28 lbs is a lot of difference. Is this a street or track bike? and welding titanium isnt bad, ive done it. 

A good friend of mine, who actually wheeled my TI front fender was a fabricator for benneton and williams during the 80s and into the 90s until he came here to build race cars in indy, def has a different view point, and agreed it was the best way to go w out compromise. It was never jewelry for me. An engineering experiment? yes.

I've yet to see a street legal rd as light as mine. the 'brew' bike was still a few lbs heavier in landspeed trim. (ive actually seen it in real life).   But there's no downside to TI aside from cost, either.     

[rodneya]

Cost is not too bad
250mm OEM bolt from suzuki $13 (if I buy it from a dealer in Canada it will be at least twice that)
280mm Ti bolt from ebay $26 and $6 shipping

Ti bolt from a supplier in Canada over $120 shipped.

[m in sc]

https://ebay.us/T1eyWL   

[teazer]

I like to reduce weight but whether it's getting bolts drilled and heads dished or buying new Ti hardware, it ain't cheap.

On our drag race RD350, the rear axle was machined out of thick wall CrO Mo tube (basically solid rod with a hole in the middle that had to be opened up and I used Ti nuts on each end.  All the engine mounts are Ti and obviously head sleeve nuts are Aluminum.

I use Ti wherever possible and on low stressed parts I use aluminum cap head screws. It all adds up, but so does the cost and so far no a single person commented on how cool that I looked. Most people don't know the differences, so the cool factor is lost.

To put that into perspective, a stock TZ twin shock had zero Ti on it.  On the other hand, a works Honda 6 had all sorts of unobtanium bits and you can imagine the difference in manufacturing costs of either was nowhere close.

Bu Ti tends to gall when machined and it work hardens I believe.