Looking for tech advice about Vape Ignition installation on a 1975 RD250B

[m in sc]

YUP. all of that is correct. ive had mine 12 yrs, no keyway and it doesn't slip.  get some sleeving loctite, put a VERY small amount (like, a drop) on the shaft and tighten it down. also, make sure you have a nice thick washer under the retaining nut, the powerdynamo one sucks unless they changed it. 

as far as the ability to get it home with dead battery... just make the connection from the blue wire to the coil a bit long where you can unplug it on the side of the road by reaching under the tank or the seat. you'll then have to stall the bike to kill it but in a pinch it beats waiting on a ride. (or reconnect the fitting with fear of getting a shock). Obviously, use insulated connectors.

pro tip: get autolite 4092 plugs, most auto parts stores carry them. its a 9 series plug and works just fine for these bikes. i run them in a few bikes.

[RDryan]

OH that is a sweet pro tip! Or two.  

Yep I listened to John and took notes, the next day I ordered every jet he recommended for when I do put on the y boot with K&N filter thus losing the stock airbox as well as DG pipes, probably not the best but they were on sale. I also got his hardware upgrade with the substantially more thick washer and longer bolt and I also ordered the rubber grommet as I really didn't want to reuse/ molest the original generator wiring to salvage that. Lastly I got the Vape puller from Economy Cycles. All recommended purchases  stated on their site.

[SUPERTUNE]

OH that is a sweet pro tip! Or two.  

Yep I listened to John and took notes, the next day I ordered every jet he recommended for when I do put on the y boot with K&N filter thus losing the stock airbox as well as DG pipes, probably not the best but they were on sale. I also got his hardware upgrade with the substantially more thick washer and longer bolt and I also ordered the rubber grommet as I really didn't want to reuse/ molest the original generator wiring to salvage that. Lastly I got the Vape puller from Economy Cycles. All recommended purchases  stated on their site.

Another tip, use a stock thin washer in place of the thick one from John's upgrade kit, then do a pre-install of the rotor and make sure the bolt goes all the way in! Very important to check! 
Not all cranks are tapped deep enough!
(or have loctite in the bottom of the crank threads from previous install before) Crank threads are 7mm X 1.0 if you need to use tap. 
I usually grind off 5-7mm off the threaded end then use the thick washer and Torque with loctite to 120 Inch-Lbs.

Chuck
If the bolt bottoms out then you have rotor slippage! This happens a lot...

[m in sc]

oooh yeah, i remember you telling me that chuck. good point on the crank thread depth. 

[RDryan]

OH that is a sweet pro tip! Or two.  

Yep I listened to John and took notes, the next day I ordered every jet he recommended for when I do put on the y boot with K&N filter thus losing the stock airbox as well as DG pipes, probably not the best but they were on sale. I also got his hardware upgrade with the substantially more thick washer and longer bolt and I also ordered the rubber grommet as I really didn't want to reuse/ molest the original generator wiring to salvage that. Lastly I got the Vape puller from Economy Cycles. All recommended purchases  stated on their site.

Another tip, use a stock thin washer in place of the thick one from John's upgrade kit, then do a pre-install of the rotor and make sure the bolt goes all the way in! Very important to check! 
Not all cranks are tapped deep enough!
(or have loctite in the bottom of the crank threads from previous install before) Crank threads are 7mm X 1.0 if you need to use tap. 
I usually grind off 5-7mm off the threaded end then use the thick washer and Torque with loctite to 120 Inch-Lbs.

Chuck
If the bolt bottoms out then you have rotor slippage! This happens a lot...

Hi, fellas, really glad I checked in! So first I wanna say, it works. She has a new electric heart and quite a spark at that. Well a funny thing happened after wiring it up and checking for spark with the battery connected I disconnected the battery and took it out of the bike and let it sit for a spell, easily twenty minutes...So I approach the bike and hit the positive battery terminal against the top of the battery box and got a visible, audible spark. Not too big but definitely surprised me. I wonder why?... Would the regulator hold a charge for that long even with no battery?

So first after being all wired up but without the relay attached but battery was connected I checked and got spark. Then I tried it without the battery and I can turn her over and still get spark. Amazing...So I tried with the relay attached and or igniton off stop switch off  and maybe a complete stroke with the kickstart she still had spark but repeatedly turning her over and she quickly had no spark. So the relay works but it seems like she initially wants to carry spark. A nice blue zap of a spark.

I'm really just kinda smitten with it. It was a frustrating to get the generator wiring thru the rubber grommet and seat it's flange on the case, that hole is so small and Vape already put this neat 3/8 shielding over the five wires. Plus I reused the original blue neutral wire, took it off the old generator and kept it's bullet connector because I didn't have any and really have not much use to buy em. I guess I just felt cheap and didn't want to cut and splice and solder that.

Ironically regarding the rotor fastener. I currently have it pretty tight but I need to get a strap wrench to hold the rotor to get it to final torque spec. Haven't loctited it just there for the checking of things. but I did loctite the base plate and pick up screws.  So John at Economy did recommend the blue loctite and 20 ft. lbs. is that too much?...because that's like twice as much,thats what I torque the oil drain bolt on my car too.  My 1973 service manual states 135 inch lbs. for a 7mm bolt fwiw I did have the original generator on and off when but I can't recall ever tightening to that value. I actually never even used loctite with that old points setup, may have played a roll in my points plates moving just a bit? Too late now Well that hardware kit with the supplied thick washer I did measure about but not quite 5/8 of the bolt threading into the crank and I imagine once I get the strap wrench to hold the rotor I may be able to torque it to at least 120 inch lbs. Not sure it makes a difference but I have a new Vito's Crank.

[RDryan]

Also wanted to add that I left the wood ruff key in and it seemed like to the naked eye that the leading edge of the ridges of the rotor when they meet with the edge of the pickup sensor the piston position is at 2 mm btdc. on both cylinders. I think I am just gonna try it with the wood ruff key in and see how she runs.

[m in sc]

 

sounds right, good job. The spark is from a capacitor that is in the newer versions of the regulator, this is a VERY good thing. it will hold a charge there. My old one didnt have one and it cooked a fusable link on my very expensive spa tach/speedo i had to send back to the UK to get reworked. 

Sounds like you got it. TBH, i usually zap the rotor bolt down with a small impact and leave it. its the wrong way, yours is much more correct. 

[RDryan]

Ha,ha I really can't wait to giver a go Too bad about all the rainy days we're getting here in NE but a good time to work on bikes. Yeah that new regulator really is something to marvel at, I also used the tab bolted to it and ground it to the frame. Fit right in were the old one was. I did have to drill a hole to mount the coil pack but the holes where the old Emgo coils were mounted to, one will do just fine for the relay. Easy access under the tank to yank the blue plug if I need to.

Further I wonder about the coil wires they're really long...in the Vape install instructions there's the grainy pic of RD400 with coil/regulater mount suggestions. So in the pic you can make out that they didn't cut back the spark plug wires. I don't know should I cut the wires shorter for a more tailored fit or just kinda wrap and tuck up under the tank? Is there a difference in length of spark plug wires in terms of losing resistence?

[m in sc]

TRIM THEM, YOU;RE FINE. THEY ARE A MILE LONG

[Dvsrd]

I believe Powerdynamo advised against using a strap wrench to hold the flywheel, as the magnets are bonded (glued) to the inside of the flywheel. Scroll to the bottom of this web page:
http://www.powerdynamo.de/eng/kb/grip.htm

[Economy Cycle John]

I've started including an extra washer in addition to the thick one for the bolt depth, had one come in with a Vito's crank that had that issue. and ps the vito's RD cranks use the larger small end bearing, like the RZ.

[SUPERTUNE]

I always take off the primary clutch cover and use a large crescent wrench tightened up on the crank nut to hold and torque rotor bolt...little more work, but done right.
NO, 20ft-lbs is way too much.
Use my spec.

Chuck

[SUPERTUNE]

I'm at 10 ft-lbs. Up to 135 in-lbs would be ok I think too.
Thats just under 12 ft-lbs.
C

[retaRD]

sounds right, good job. The spark is from a capacitor that is in the newer versions of the regulator, this is a VERY good thing. it will hold a charge there. My old one didnt have one and it cooked a fusable link on my very expensive spa tach/speedo i had to send back to the UK to get reworked. 

Thanks for reminding me, I got lucky once already..

[RDryan]

I like that Vape tool, I wonder if I could make one? I see I will have to do this right. I suppose I could pull the cover since I don't have the tool. Is it ok to reseal it with the old gasket? The last time I pulled that cover it was bonded to the crankcase side and seemed like the gasket was very well intact...this being a recent new gasket I imagine my odds of re using it to be good?