Pretty much screwed.

soonerbillz · September 01, 2022, 08:39:51 PM

Ya'll probably remember me trying to pull that stuck cylinder.
Well it's be almost 3 months now. Every few days I would try to break it free.. grr

I've done everything I can think of to get it to break loose.
Soaked, heated and beat it to death. But just won't come off the studs.
The crank, rods and piston is super free. It had actually good compression.was just wanting to putt new rings and gadkets on it..
I'm really ready to take my Sawzall to it!!!

soonerbillz · September 01, 2022, 08:44:55 PM

I never once hit it on the head seal area. But this thing was beat there by somebody

Striker1423 · September 01, 2022, 08:48:03 PM

air hammer on the studs. screw the head bolts on it first. that, and heat. just don't melt the aluminum.

sav0r · September 01, 2022, 08:51:44 PM

Put it in a press and work it back and forth. It might not be pretty but it will move eventually.

m in sc · September 01, 2022, 09:29:51 PM

id fill the stud holes with pb blaster and heat up the cylinder enough to basically get it to boil, at all 4. should loosen it up. otherwise...

drill the studs. side note, the liner top is the sealing surface

KANDY · September 02, 2022, 08:56:56 AM

Quote from: m in sc on September 01, 2022, 09:29:51 PM
drill the studs. side note, the liner top is the sealing surface

rlgrantjr · September 04, 2022, 11:39:30 AM

If it hasn't moved at all, I think the rust just has nowhere to go and the heating isn't expanding the holes enough to slide by the rust. If the penetrant you're using has not dribbled out between the case and the cylinder base the rust is in there pretty solid. I'd take the engine apart so all that's left is the top half of the case and the stuck cylinder. The bottom of the cylinder liner is exposed and you can use an aluminum block and hammer on it directly, if carefully. Then I'd flip it upside down and clean the holes out with brake clean to get the penetrant out, flip it back over and fill them up with evaporust. Leave it for a day, pour it out and see if anything comes out. If so, repeat the process.

I recently took an R5 engine apart and the cylinders did not want to come off. They did move a little and I was able to work them up and down so the rust fell out of the bottom of the holes until they came off. I was surprised how much rust there was.

soonerbillz · September 04, 2022, 02:35:03 PM

Quote from: rlgrantjr on September 04, 2022, 11:39:30 AM
If it hasn't moved at all, I think the rust just has nowhere to go and the heating isn't expanding the holes enough to slide by the rust. If the penetrant you're using has not dribbled out between the case and the cylinder base the rust is in there pretty solid. I'd take the engine apart so all that's left is the top half of the case and the stuck cylinder. The bottom of the cylinder liner is exposed and you can use an aluminum block and hammer on it directly, if carefully. Then I'd flip it upside down and clean the holes out with brake clean to get the penetrant out, flip it back over and fill them up with evaporust. Leave it for a day, pour it out and see if anything comes out. If so, repeat the process.

I recently took an R5 engine apart and the cylinders did not want to come off. They did move a little and I was able to work them up and down so the rust fell out of the bottom of the holes until they came off. I was surprised how much rust there was.

This is where I'm pretty much at I think.
I have tried to drilling but I'm afraid I'm gonna damage the liner/jug or case so I quit.

Clem710 · September 05, 2022, 02:38:02 PM

For my most recent war on a single, we used damn near boiling kerosene as a soaker and worked on getting a tiny bit of clearance at the base, then worked the crank back and forth "slapping" the cylinder on the base, semi vigorous but mostly just trying to use the mass/inertia of the cylinder to set up some vibration. Also, once we had clearance, we could sneak super hot kerosene on the underside as well.

If this is a total rebuild, drilling the piston could be an option, no? If its stuck on the studs, tho, maybe not useful.

I remember reading on an antique tractor board that an alternative method is to chuck the engine into a lake for a year or two, theory being that the water would slowly dissolve the rust and would not rust further since there is very little O2 available.

We did throw a dead quad motor under water for about 2 years and I was suprised that it came out looking better than it went in and there was plenty of oil/grease in the places you would want it. If there werent holes in the cases, it could have been dried, oiled and used.

YMMV and all that, dont believe everything you read on the internet:)

edgefinder · September 05, 2022, 02:51:47 PM

Coupla hours on a bridgeport mill. An endmill and center drill to keep centered. Left handed drill a little under stud size and a couple of those will screw out before you get to the bottom

jradnich · September 05, 2022, 07:10:06 PM

A couple of plastic splitting wedges. One from the side under the intake flange. Tap it in tight. The second between the exhaust flange and motor mount bolt flange. Tap that one in real tight. Heat the cylinder and let it sit. Tap on the wedges every now and then to see if they work loose.
If that doesn't work, maybe a porta power with a spreader jaw between the exhaust and motor mount flange. Be careful with the porta power, you can apply more force then you realize.

sav0r · September 05, 2022, 08:01:20 PM

It's not tensioned currently? I am seeing that right? There are studs but nothing holding the cylinder down other than friction?

irk_miller · September 05, 2022, 08:13:26 PM

By heat, I assume you mean a torch. If you do it in an oven @400 degrees for at least an hour it will kill seals, and that's where you drop sleeves out of jugs, but it will also separate the bond between stainless and aluminum, if that's the issue. Plus help release the piston if it's galled in there. Not sure where you are on limiting rebuild cost at this point.

soonerbillz · September 06, 2022, 02:07:38 PM

Quote from: sav0r on September 05, 2022, 08:01:20 PM
It's not tensioned currently? I am seeing that right? There are studs but nothing holding the cylinder down other than friction?

That's correct. The piston is totally free to travel the length of the cylinder.
The head bolts were so rusted to the studs that I needed an impact to remove them.

sav0r · September 06, 2022, 02:22:56 PM

This why I see the press as probably the best bet. You might bend the fins up, but if you can get it rock back and forth it will break the bond at the cylinder bottom and maybe break up some of the rust on the studs. Steel expands at a factor of 10:1 to completely degrade when rusting. So those studs are really large, but not particularly dense. Yes, the piston skirt extends into the case, but a little bit of rocking should be tolerated. It doesn't sound like much fun, but I bet it would get the job done. Once some movement is made it will get a lot easier.

News:

Pretty much screwed.