Anyone on here build a set of Vanguard chambers?

[oxford]

I was wondering if anyone on here has built a set of these chambers?  I have couple of questions.

[Vintagetz]

I have built pipes like them, feel free to E-mail me any questions.

[Economy Cycle John]

full plans/specs here

https://vanguardcycles.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/how-the-vanguard-v1s-are-made/

[kramdua]

you wonder why these high end chambers cost so much? there has to be a huge amount of time and knowledge to build them.

[rodneya]

Time and skill required to build pipes hasn't changed much over the years (maybe modern pulse welders are easier to get a good finish with), but knowledge has changed a lot.

70's design  Denco H2 pipes vs modern Shearer pipes for the same motor. Those Dencos were probably considered top of the line 50 years ago.

[m in sc]

those certainly dont looke like dencos. more like wirges.  but, your point is spot on.

[oxford]

full plans/specs here

https://vanguardcycles.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/how-the-vanguard-v1s-are-made/

Sorta/kinda.  I have the package, some of the info in it isn't what shows in that build log.  I was hoping someone had built a set on here.  I know someone built a set a long time ago on one of the MC forums, flips12 screen name maybe???

We sold 8 sets of them and Nate (Van Guard owner) didn't want to do any more too labor intensive, each cone had to be laser cut, then 40+ hours of tig welding per set. He turned more than one "name your price offer".

[oxford]

A little teaser if anyone is interested.

[kramdua]

yes the welding of today and the metal used is by far A+.

[LMS]

Did you weld that, if so amazing?

[oxford]

Did you weld that, if so amazing?

Yes, thanks.  I've been out of practice with TIG for a few years now, these are starting to get me right back in the groove, lol.

That is only 22ga sheet, fab work and fit up needs to be pretty much 100% and even then you can have some issues.

[teazer]

Beautiful welding for sure.  Why do the last sections look like they are a size too large?  It almost looks like they are a step larger than the next smaller ones.  Probably an optical illusion.

And welding 22 gauge is super hard not to blow through.  Are pipes usually 20 gauge or 22?  I measured a few different pipes recently and metal thickness almost seemed to be 21 gauge which wouldn't make sense.

[oxford]

I think 20ga is a little more common and that is what was called out for these.  Where I got the flats laser cut, 20ga wasn't an option so I went with 22 instead of 18.  This material actually measures a little less than 22ga specs, it is .027" thick.

I built a set of chambers in the past for a Kawi triple from a cone kit that was 22ga so I felt confident enough to use the material for this.

I think some of what you see with the wrong side is a little bit of an illusion in the picture  BUT, I'm having my doubts that the supplied files are what these pipes were being produced with.  There are issues with the belly sections that I am currently trying to sort out and have new flats cut.  Unfortunately, I am better with the welder than the computer so it is taking a little long to get where I want to go. 

I fought with fit-up on those header sections which I chalked up to the "fab" work but I am wondering if there isn't some issues with those as well.

I'll get this set together but will mostly get another set cutout and put together if the modified belly sections work  out.

[teazer]

Thanks for that info on sheet thickness.  I think it tells me to use 20 gauge for street chambers and 22 for lighter applications.

You might check teh length of those two sections to see if they are the same where they join. It is possible that one file is incorrect. BTW, I once had a good look at a really nice set of pipes that worked well and I realized that one cone was reversed on both pipes. Minor discrepancies don't seem to make a whole lot of difference at street levels of performance for some reason.

I have Bassani and jemco pipes and both have a step at at least one of joins. I suspect they would make slightly more power without those steps but not enough to make it cost effective for them to be perfect.  When I worked on a kart header pipe some years ago, the design that worked best was one which was closest to a smooth transition like a curve rather that sharp changes in direction or section.  I don't have software or the time to see if a continuous curve would work much better and if so by how much compared to different cones.  That's where hydro formed chambers might have a slight advantage.

[oxford]

You might check teh length of those two sections to see if they are the same where they join. It is possible that one file is incorrect.

I took a look at the headers tonight, I think most of what is seen in the above pic is an illusion but there is definitely some out of round on the fab work that has caused some minor steps.  And by minor steps, I mean it still was welded with basically no filler wire.

I do remember having the most issues with those pieces though so it is possible there is some length issues on some of the files.  I'm not sure if I even want to look or just deal with it again when I remake them, we'll see.