Vape Ignition install question

[Aloha808]

Installing a vape system.  The instructions say to bring one piston to TDC, then to adjust the rotor per instructions and tighten.

I read and seen a video in which the piston was brought up 1.8 BTDC.  Can anyone advice me on which it is?

Also, not sure the best way to torque the rotor.  No torque spec were given in the instructions.  I was just going to use a impact driver to torque the bolt down.???

Thanks in advance.

[m in sc]

1: get a VERY thick washer. 2: heat the rotor up in an oven to about 225 degrees (yes im serious). 3: set the crank where you want it to fire, it will fire when the leading edge of the ramp on the rotor is about halfway across the pickup button, maybe a hair before. 4: get the rotor with oven mints and set it on the crank end, tap it on lightly with a dead blow mallet or rubber mallet. 5: zap the nut down with an impact, but don't go too crazy

verify timing with timing light.

[Aloha808]

1: get a VERY thick washer. 2: heat the rotor up in an oven to about 225 degrees (yes im serious). 3: set the crank where you want it to fire, it will fire when the leading edge of the ramp on the rotor is about halfway across the pickup button, maybe a hair before. 4: get the rotor with oven mints and set it on the crank end, tap it on lightly with a dead blow mallet or rubber mallet. 5: zap the nut down with an impact, but don't go too crazy

verify timing with timing light.

Thanks Mark!

[rodneya]

The vape that I have that comes with the curve box is setup at TDC.

[bitzz]

1: get a VERY thick washer. 2: heat the rotor up in an oven to about 225 degrees (yes im serious). 3: set ....

verify timing with timing light.

I have to respectfully disagree.
Two things you never want to do to a permanent magnet is heat them up or hit them with a hammer. Both will decrease the magnetism.

You Do want to lap the rotor onto the shaft. Clean everything, put some valve grinding compound on the taper, loosely install the rotor and twist it back and forth for 20 minutes, rotating and progressively pressing harder as you go. When you install the rotor, block the crank by ramming something (a penny, a piece of aluminum, an oily rag) in the primary gears, and you'll have to hold the rotor. 50-60# is lots.
And NEVER use an impact on a shaft with a precision bearing.
If the instructions of your Vape system doesn't specify that it has a timing  advance built in, I would assume you have to set it to 1.8 before to get 1.8 timing.... otherwise the instructions would say if you set it at zero, you'll get 1.8. (1.8 is more than enough for modern gas)

[m in sc]

I've done this at this point dozens of times. you are nowhere near demagnetizing at 220 degrees, it has to be close to 400. Im still running the unit from 2007 that i've pulled on and off a few times, zero issues. also, theres a slight interference with a taper fit, you can't reliably lap it by hand, sorry. Ive seen people do it and work, but I've never had the need to do it, and im currently running 4 of these systems. and a dead blow/rubber mallet will not shock it, there's a reason i said that. 

Yes, if you cooked it at like 450 degrees for an hour and then went smacking the side of it with a ball peen hammer, yeah, issues. this isnt that.   

[Striker1423]

The taper is what sets the rotor. You don't lap an interference fit. If they did that to snowmobiles you'd have thousands of them with stripped crank ends and sloppy clutches.

[irk_miller]

1: get a VERY thick washer. 2: heat the rotor up in an oven to about 225 degrees (yes im serious). 3: set ....

verify timing with timing light.

I have to respectfully disagree.
Two things you never want to do to a permanent magnet is heat them up or hit them with a hammer. Both will decrease the magnetism.

You Do want to lap the rotor onto the shaft. Clean everything, put some valve grinding compound on the taper, loosely install the rotor and twist it back and forth for 20 minutes, rotating and progressively pressing harder as you go. When you install the rotor, block the crank by ramming something (a penny, a piece of aluminum, an oily rag) in the primary gears, and you'll have to hold the rotor. 50-60# is lots.
And NEVER use an impact on a shaft with a precision bearing.
If the instructions of your Vape system doesn't specify that it has a timing  advance built in, I would assume you have to set it to 1.8 before to get 1.8 timing.... otherwise the instructions would say if you set it at zero, you'll get 1.8. (1.8 is more than enough for modern gas)

Rotors, bldc motors, etc typically start to lose their magnetism at 170 degrees celsius.  As long as you keep temps below that number you are fine.  In general, steel expands 3/16" between ambient temp and forging temp.

I would also recommend getting the rotor screw set that Economy sells separately for the Vape kits.  They come with a longer screw and a better washer, so they'll be sure to keep it from moving.

[Economy Cycle John]

as others have said get some upgraded hardware (see below)

4.5mm thick washer, longer bolt
Measure the depth to make sure the bolt isn't too long and bottoming out
torque to 20 ft/lbs (dry)




https://www.economycycle.com/shop/yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-parts/electrical-ignitions-lighting/ignition/mzb-cdi-electronic-igntion-for-yamaha-rd250350400r5ds6ds7-street-version-hardware-upgrade/

[kramdua]

170 degrees celsius is 338°F so way lower than 220f. 

[Brad-Man]

How about using Loctite green?

[m in sc]

sleeving loctite is ok... ive used it. but NOT fun to deal with if/when you have to remove and reinstall. ask how i know. lol. i gave that up on this application for that very reason. but if oyu are 100% sure its right and will be on for a VERY long time, sure.

[rdshaw]

Easier to freeze the shaft with ether. And a wee bit heat to the rotor, where I can still handle with a little discomfort.
Either way I am guilty of using  the rubber dead blow ,has not been a problem .

[m in sc]

ive cooled the shaft as well, only thing i didn't like about it, in a humid environment, is it can sweat and eventually cause droplets and rust. but, ive done it as well.

[Aloha808]

The vape that I have that comes with the curve box is setup at TDC.

I sent 2 pics of the instructions.  I guess I need to set at TDC. 

rodneya-were your instructions identical to mine?  And did you set your vape system per the instructions that are in the pics.  I ask that because I saw a least one video of a guy in England who set his at 1.8 BTDC.  So I am a little confused.

Also, what curve from the advance unit are you using?  Thanks!


To economy cycle and others who recommenced the thicker washer and longer bolt.  Thank you.   I did have that already.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in with advice!