blown main fuse

RDryan · May 19, 2023, 06:21:06 PM

Hi well it's been awhile but I finally have a problem. Anything electrical is a head scratch for me.

So last August I was out hammering away on my 250, stock but with the Vape ignition and all the sudden she died. No lights,spark just died booting down the road in maybe 4th or 5th gear. So that never happened before and I almost forgot about that blue wire to the relay. Disconnected it and back in business, bike was running and I made it back home although with no lights. Tore into the matter of the bike dying and I simply couldn't find a shorted wire just looking at the wire harness from the headlight bucket back to the battery.

Although before all this happened I did lose function of my turn signals but I think that maybe a bad flasher relay?...can't imagine that it's related to the bike running.Well I finally discovered the main fuse blown and also that the mounting bolts for my coil pack were loose. So I tightened up those mounting bolts and chalked it up to that having something to do with the main fuse blowing.

Fast forward to the other day and after installing a new clutch cable and clutch lever as well as a quick disconnect/fuel lines I took the bike for a ride. The bike started fine and all lights working except the turn signals that I forgot about fixing. You know just a cold start for a couple minutes with some moderate revving of the engine no more than 2k to 3k on the tach. Ok she's warmed up and take off booting down the road ripping thru the gears

...Well about twenty seconds into it more or less she just dies again

just like last August when it happened then. Same deal blown main fuse and simply disconnect the blue wire and I was able to ride away in style minus the lights.

Remember I am admittedly an electrical dummy

But I did do a search on this forum and read the thread that Blue400 started regarding his issue with a blown main fuse. Sounded similar to mine with exception that I am blowing the fuse while ripping thru the gears. He stated that his was blowing with the bike not running. It was mentioned that a possible culprit could be a very old battery. My battery is from 2018, when I bought it new for my Honda Ruckus, a Sealed AGM type. So I guess you could say it's old. Now the Vape ignition I bought a couple years later and I believe it has the newer regulator/rectifier with built in capacitor. Not sure like I say if I may have over extended my time using this old battery but will say that it seems to respond well to holding a charge from my battery tender. Also when I connected the postive/negative terminal leads to the battery I got a quick momentary spark which it would always do before this blown main fuse issue.

So any thoughts on this?...do I need to look more carefully for a shorted wire somewhere in the harness? Would the turn signals not working be related to this?...I think that sounds silly but I will say ever since they had stopped working I think I noticed that there is no clicking from I believe was the original flasher relay. Anyways the fuse is wired between the battery and the reg./rec. and....I just don't know where to go from here.

At least the bike still runs if I disconnect the blue wire from the relay.

m in sc · May 19, 2023, 07:12:04 PM

if its a stock flasher they can short internally and really mess things up.

RDryan · May 19, 2023, 07:24:42 PM

When you say really mess things up could that mean destroying the regulator rectifier? Is there a way to test that as well as the stock flasher relay?

Well just to repeat myself it seemed like the bike was running fine with the lights on at idle and just giving her some easy revs up to 3k in neutral. It wasn't until I was ripping thru the gears and shifting at about 7k that all the sudden she just died on me.

RDryan · May 19, 2023, 07:27:34 PM

So I see that that Economy Cycles sells replacement flasher relays and they aren't too expensive, less than $20. Would that and just replacing the fuse help solve my problem? I almost think that to be way too easy.

RDryan · May 20, 2023, 04:16:47 PM

Ok I think I made things worse.

Way back when...2019ish I also got a "battery eliminator" with my vape ignition. Me thinking it would be cool to not have the hassle of a battery. Well I never used it and always used a battery, for whatever reason, I think I had it wired wrong. I couldn't make it work and it just sat in a box till today.

I connected it in the place of the battery and she fired up,ran great actually till I revved her a bit and I think I definitely shorted something. What can I say I was excited to see and hear her run with lights working again plus horn, neutral light.

Well don't feel too sorry for me and who would?...with no extra fuses I just taped the wires together thinking what harm could that do...all I wanted is to see if she fires up.

Well she fired up and ran for three separate attempts. I intentionally killed the bike on the first two starts but the third start I started revving her up with the turn signals on and could just barely see the lights, one being the rt. turn signal indicator lamps in the gauge cluster just barely work but working stronger with a few good revs. And that's when

bike died.

I messed around a bit more with my old battery fully charged and no change in circumstances unless to say that it's not a wise idea to do this. The wire ends where the fuse goes arch out with a spark and get very warm. I know not smart I'm just being stupid stubborn.
So the good news is, pull the blue wire off the relay and the bike still runs great and as it should. Me hoping I didn't short the coils as well.

I'm thinking at this point that I definitely have a bad flasher relay and maybe I burned out the regulator/rectifier with this latest smooth move on my part???...boy do I feel like an idiot.

oldguyRD1964 · May 26, 2023, 01:56:44 PM

Wondering if you traced the wiring with a meter to see where the voltage stops or isn't going.

BTW from the other issue I am having with my VS dyna don't do this test with the engine off for every long or you could burn something out (I forgot what it was on the plate). Hope you fix it but being old I'm thinking you have some wire that is touching the frame or a loose connection doing this. As proven I'm not that smart.

RDryan · May 26, 2023, 06:42:59 PM

Quote from: oldguyRD1964 on May 26, 2023, 01:56:44 PMWondering if you traced the wiring with a meter to see where the voltage stops or isn't going.

BTW from the other issue I am having with my VS dyna don't do this test with the engine off for every long or you could burn something out (I forgot what it was on the plate). Hope you fix it but being old I'm thinking you have some wire that is touching the frame or a loose connection doing this. As proven I'm not that smart.

Solid input, Thank you! I did read a couple of other good tips that make good sense as well. Lucky for me I burned them to memory as the postings got lost, probably something to do with the forum site errors that I know Mark in SC has been working tirelessly on.

So basically I have done nothing as of yet with the bike or any bike unfortunately. I hate to dispense my 'drama" because it's part of being human and don't we all have it?...

No drama really,I'm self employed at commercial clam digging and I thought I would have three days off this week due to a rainfall closure but I attempted to dig what is known as a rain exempt area and found more clams and the price went up for them. Plus this place that I've been going to forced me to get my 14ft. clamming skiff back into action after a five month rest,basically I spend a majority of crosstides as well as the winter walking into what we call "winter clam flats". They're open seasonally and coordinate well with a windy season when one doesn't want to be boating to the summer flats or in this case a rain exempt flat. So yeah due to the tide schedule and just putting in some long work days with overdue boat/trailer maintaining, I have been meditating on this bike and just plain lusting after my other couple of bikes all collecting dust and spider webs.

I do promise to keep this thread updated just to see it thru. As an aside I do have a meter just not to swift with it and obviously no teacher around to keep me outta mischief.

kpke · May 27, 2023, 08:29:23 AM

Interesting occupation you have. May I ask where abouts in the world you do the clam digging? Just curious. I hope you get your bike fixed asap. Good luck.

RDryan · May 27, 2023, 08:02:27 PM

Quote from: kpke on May 27, 2023, 08:29:23 AMInteresting occupation you have. May I ask where abouts in the world you do the clam digging? Just curious. I hope you get your bike fixed asap. Good luck.

Hi,so yeah I live in Gloucester,Ma. and we are the nation's oldest seaport. In fact Gloucester,Ma. is about to celebrate it's 400 year anniversary this year!I know this to be a pretty big deal among the chamber of commerce and people whom manage things. Having said that we have a lot of coastline and beaches in our city as well as creeks, sand flats...brackish places where the clams seed in.So Gloucester is just one clamming community in the North Shore of Ma. There is neighboring towns that have more more fertile area and are the really productive places for clamming. However I've been able to do this fulltime as a sole source of income for nearly ten years and have met many old time clammers with a range of over 20 to 50+ years of experience. There have been periods of time with all the clams dugout and no new seedings, I was told one had lasted for 15 years in between seeding cycles. I dig what is known as the soft shell clam, I also dig what's known as a razor clam that the Asians absolutely love, they make it into sushi. The soft shell clams can be enjoyed as what's called a steamer but mostly folks just fry em and it's all pretty expensive. If you ran into me and wanted say five pounds I'd sell em to you for say a buck more a pound than I'm currently getting and you'd be getting a great deal at $3 a pound. Where as the supermarket locally is charging $7 a pound, that's in the shell and restaurants will charge roughly $40 for a fried clam plate. It's maybe a pound or slightly more of fried clams and a heaping side of onion rings and fries, delicious not nutritious and a ripoff but amongst seafood it's native to the area. The soft shell clams do also come from Maine and Washington state has their shellfish beds. At one time local dealers were getting heck of deal from Maryland, their shotshell would get dredged so no backbreaking digging involved. Also there is what is known as the cherry stones or little necks and those clams are from the soft shore of Ma. A bit outta of my jurisdiction. I could go on and on about it but it's really interesting.

kpke · May 31, 2023, 08:24:45 AM

Wow. Thanks for the comprehensive reply. That's really cool. As I said interesting occupation. You must have to harvest a lot of pounds to make a living at $2 per pound. You told me you'd sell to me for $3 per pound so checks in the mail and I'll look for them in the mail box in a couple of days.

RDryan · January 10, 2024, 07:07:00 PM

So I know it's been quite a long time since I last posted on this topic. I have plenty of excuses like work got in the way as well as drinking time

but I also had a couple of other bikes to ride when the weather was nice here in Ma.

So anyways long story short it indeed was the original flasher relay...an internal failure/short of the part was to blame. I swapped it out with a near identical in terms of size/spec made in Taiwan cheapo relay and that did the trick.

This replacement of the flasher relay did present some opportunity for me to better consolidate some of the wiring and part placement of the Vape coil pack and relay.

As an observation....it's interesting how a bad flasher relay can really out the bikes electrics. I still have yet to run the bike. I do know it gets spark with or without blue wire connecting to pin 30 of Vape relay. Just hoping I didn't burnout the Vape reg./rec. and I'm just saying that as I foolishly ran the bike without a fuse quite a while back when I was messing with this and just gave up on it. I did see that Economy Cycles sells just that part if I need one.

Well I guess that's about it for now, pretty excited to fire up my lil 250. I love and miss it.

RDryan · January 11, 2024, 06:20:04 PM

Well I know the lights work but not for long...Got the bike to run with the battery. From a cold start and idling with choke on ran fine then closed choke gave bike some revs as it was still cold and really wouldn't hold an idle (probably should adjust idle screws) but it does have old gas in it

...so I gave her some revs to keep her alive not much over 3k on the tach and she dies. Blown fuse.

I wound up blowing half a dozen fuses just trying to disconnect the new flasher relay as I thought it to be cheap made in Taiwan part but actually turned out ok as I did hook that up to the battery and a turn signal and she flashes fine. I also tried disconnecting the regulator rectifier, first the brown and red leads then the black leads coming from the generator and that didn't matter. New fuse installed,turn ignition key on and instant blown fuse again. Tried to source a shorting wire looking in all the same places. I did find one of the white stator wires mashed between the side cover and the upper locating dowel near the pickup module, managed to fix that though, splicing and soldering,making sure not to mash em when I reinstall the sidecover. Go to put a new fuse in and turn the key and seemingly success as the neutral lamp lit up. Briefly... Well giver her some revs and same thing happens. Dies with blown fuse.

At this point I kinda think I must've fried the regulator/rectifier a while back, possibly the Vape relay as well? Not really sure how to test the regulator/rectifier (or relay for that matter) other than take a test meter and read the voltage on the battery while bike is running? I'm thinking once the regulator/rectifier cools down then the bike seems to want to run with the battery at idle speeds. Any bit of revs and she must be overcharging the battery likely due to the regulator/rectifier being fried previously...any thoughts on this are appreciated.

Long story short is this what one experiences when regulator/rectifiers go bad? I did read somewhere online that according to Vape the component is extremely sensitive to shorting out and there is no real way to test it due to its design.Sure as shit it's a kinda expensive part.

rodneya · January 11, 2024, 06:39:39 PM

Testing procedure
https://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/kb/values.htm

You can replace the relay with 4 pin one for auxiliary lights or similar. Lots of you tube vids on checking relays.

Did you locktite all screws in the vape when installing? They tend to rattle loose and cause chaos. Also check wires from vape through the case.

RDryan · January 11, 2024, 09:08:55 PM

Quote from: rodneya on January 11, 2024, 06:39:39 PMTesting procedure
https://www.powerdynamo.biz/eng/kb/values.htm

You can replace the relay with 4 pin one for auxiliary lights or similar. Lots of you tube vids on checking relays.

Did you locktite all screws in the vape when installing? They tend to rattle loose and cause chaos. Also check wires from vape through the case.

Ok so I just watched several vids on testing the relays on you tube and finally tested mine. Got a good clicking when running a positive lead to pin 85 and negative lead to pin 86 from the battery but when reading resistance I got absolutely no change of reading on my multimeter display. So I guess that means there's a good chance the relay is ok but quite possibly not. As for the regulator I did check out th Vape tutorials and I know saw those a while back but good to see em again. I tried the two simple tests recommended. Took off the regulator and no "burnt smell"...and that was pressed against my nose to be sure. Also suggested was to try running bike with blue wire disconnected, battery disconnected and lights on, should see some light and if nothing then must test further.

Testing further suggests reading volts from the black wire leads coming from the generator while running the bike, 8volts at about 800 rpms and 50volts at about 5k rpms. I have yet to do that test and it would take some planning.Not sure I could even do it properly. I would like to think the generator is operating 100% as I have been running the bike today. She runs and rides strong without the battery.

Pretty sure I loctited the stator bolts. I know the one mashed white wire I repaired had loctite and I did apply more loctite when I refastened it to the pickup module. However I could certainly check wires and hardware.I actually think the only reason that white wire got out of place was in my haste to troubleshoot the bike last May but as I recall there was other memorable times when I replacing the clutch cable and some other ride on a hot summer day and I had the stator cover off just because I heard this silly ticking noise that seemed to be coming from that area, checking for loose bolts.

I've probably logged about 4500 miles on the bike since the Vape installation and unfortunately I did it before Chuck Supertune had posted a pretty good tutorial on how to do it best.

m in sc · January 12, 2024, 10:10:02 AM

take the relay out of the the equation, just unplug it and see if everything else works as it should and the fuses live.

I would def start there. the issue will be to kill the bike after testing, just ground the blue wire off the coil to kill the ign. Ive had those relays go bad before, in other applications, it can be infuriating.

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blown main fuse