blown main fuse

[RDryan]

take the relay out of the the equation, just unplug it and see if everything else works as it should and the fuses live.

I would def start there.  the issue will be to kill the bike after testing, just ground the blue wire off the coil to kill the ign.  Ive had those relays go bad before, in other applications, it can be infuriating.

Ok I did that and I still blew the fuse. I actually disconnected both the relay  and the regulator..both completely off the bike,connected the battery, double checked that the fuse was still good and then switched on the ignition key switch and instantly blew a fuse.

This is confusing to me as this wasn't happening yesterday, cause I did get power and was able to have working lights with the running bike, never tried the horn,not that it matters but the neutral lamp and break lights all good. And just to repeat myself when I closed the choke and gave her some revs up to about 3k that's when the fuse blew.Yeah thought for sure at that point it was the regulator and then turned on to the idea of the relay as well, besides it's only 10 bucks for a new one.

I know my multimeter is over 30 years old and from Radio Shack, it doesn't have selective values of reading ohms for example. I don't even have alligator clips to hold wire leads(I know I think I need some new testing equipment)   but I know I got the leads to stick last night just to see if there would be a resistance value and I got absolutely nothing going on even with pins 85 and 86 connected to the battery. However the relay clicks when connected to the battery and there's no internal rattling when I shake it. It's probably ok...despite that I ordered both a relay and replacement regulator this morning as I just felt convinced I couldn't rule them out.

However with the bike blowing it's fuse upon ignition switch on...I just started unraveling electrical tape holding the wire harness up to the battery, just trying to see what's behind it. A possible welding of wires?...sounds crazy but I just dunno. There's only one fuse it's a 20amp glass fuse that is just after the positive battery terminal but before the point that positive wire tees off either to the regulator or the rest of the wire harness. Not sure the fuse is in the right spot but I think it looks the same location as what I see in the OEM wiring schematic.

So back to the top if the relay and regulator are completely unplugged and I still blow a fuse switching key on can I at least eliminate those components?....what does that suggest?

Electrical 101 for dangerous, dummies like me.

[m in sc]

yup, thats where the stock fuse is supposed to be

sounds like a short somewhere, or a wire rubbing though. unplug other items that aren't required to make the bike run, something will present itself. also, start digging in the headlight bucket, look for a chafed wire.

TBH, i have a few really old meters, sometimes the analog ones are the best to find something easily, the auto ranging digital ones can be a bit over-sensitive.

[RDryan]

yup, thats where the stock fuse is supposed to be

sounds like a short somewhere, or a wire rubbing though. unplug other items that aren't required to make the bike run, something will present itself. also, start digging in the headlight bucket, look for a chafed wire.

TBH, i have a few really old meters, sometimes the analog ones are the best to find something easily, the auto ranging digital ones can be a bit over-sensitive.

Ok that's good to know about the fuse.

I just got the tank off and that's an ordeal. I tried to make fuel tank removal easier last May when I got a motion pro fuel line disconnect but the ethanol in the fuel I think swelled it up as well as hardening the fuel lines. that thing is really hard to seperate. I think I'm gonna have to make some kinda testing fuel vessel that I can just set up quick and temporary to the carbs cause I know that tank is going to be staying off the bike for a good long while till I get this sorted.

And after removing the gas tank I just removed,disconnected wires from the headlight as well. I'm looking so hard for a chafed wire, anything obvious.

One thing I keep getting fixated on is the red positive wire lead of the main harness coming from the battery. I know that wire got really warm and the red insulation just has the partially glazed, melted look to it but still very much intact. I remove several inches of tape where the harness snakes around the battery box to up to the point where there's a four inch white label tag taped into the harness. Wires still look ok but I just get to thinking how this is probably the original harness and I just wonder if there's a shelf life to these wires. I guess if they are not chafed and touching then they can be trusted?

I do know that there's all the extra wire from the old regulator rectifier that could be eliminated just to clean up the harness a bit. Of course this would have me taking the harness apart and retaping it. but for now I would like to think it can stay put.

Did find a Vape troubleshooting link somewhere on this forum that advised as you say to disconnect the nonessential items and thru a process of elimination slowly reconnect items till a short presents itself. So upon saying that I will assume to leave the grounds of the harness connected as well as leave the kill switch and ignition switch connected. Vape suggest the horn was a common culprit of shorts fwiw.


 

[m in sc]

yup. that melted red wire is a symptom.

jus to be sure, the red/white wire in the harness, that's disconnected from everything, correct? w the vape it has no purpose. just fyi.

[rodneya]

The wires from the stator where they run under the Vape back plate can rub through and short from vibration

[RDryan]

yup. that melted red wire is a symptom.

jus to be sure, the red/white wire in the harness, that's disconnected from everything, correct? w the vape it has no purpose. just fyi.

Yes the red/white wire is indeed disconnected to everything, just there for the ride...a remnant of the old regulator/rectifier connections. I think I definitely wanna get rid of that and all the associated wires to those old components. Gotta clean it up, rats nest of wires under my seat.

Fwiw the black wire running from  the Vape relay is spliced to the red/black wire of the harness running to the kill switch. I believe this to be correct and aside from the blue wire connected to the relay it's the only live connection for the coils to the ignition.

OK so I think I got good news...I found the culprit! In the headlight bucket it was brown wire with a bullet connector and about 3/8" of clear insulator over the brown where it's crimped to the bullet connector was missing and there was some slight burning there. Looked like it got mashed into the side of the bucket under the rest of the wiring. I covered that with shrinkwrap and reconnected it. I believe it was leading to the neutral indicator lamp as that lit up upon reconnect. One by one I reconnected the headlight, tailight, turnsignals, break light indicators, horn and flasher relay. All seems to work and no burning fuse.

It seemed like a nothing thing but it was there with a tell tale sign of grounding. Kinda makes sense because the other day when I went to start the bike with everything buttoned up. It was working ok and with a few revs just died out. Pulled the head light off to find some charred wire evidence and it just was just too hard to see at the time. Also I pulled the left side cover off to look at the magneto wires and that's were I thought I found one of the white wires mashed in between the sidecover/upper locating dowel on engine case. I probably did that awhile back not being careful, I can't tell you how many times I've had that cover off just fiddling with the clutch cable.

Anyways after repairing that wire with some solder and shrinkwrap (which btw Vape highly discourages soldering wires to repair.I guess the heat can damage sensitive electrical components)...I got the bike running good till I put the headlight back on and I imagine that exposed connection must've found it's way to shorting out again.

So the lesson for me that I can see here is that I have to be more careful with the side case as well as the headlight bucket installation. So little room for the wiring and easy to destroy it.

[RDryan]

The wires from the stator where they run under the Vape back plate can rub through and short from vibration

OK I don't doubt it. In fact I think I am going to take it apart for inspection as I feel I have been lucky with it thus far. There's just so little room in there for the wiring and honestly when I installed that magneto at the time I really took for granted that it was a proven plug and play set up. I think to a degree it is but after seeing pics on the Power Dynamo site of mashed and destroyed wires and having my experience I wouldn't be surprised if there's something there I don't wanna see.

Also makes sense to evaluate it as the installation of the Vape Ignition for me has been a learning process. I already moved the coil pack to a better spot than I had it as well as the relay. So again I just wouldn't be surprised to see improvement with installation of the stator.

I will say though and maybe you can help me with this one...I have no easy way to get the rotor off. I do believe I have the Vape rotor puller tool but I don't have a good way of holding it. I am aware that a screwdriver in the hole is a no no as well as a ratchet strap. The only way I can think to do it is too pull the clutch cover off so I can lock up the crank. Lots of parts to take off to get to that point. Unless there's a tool I can get to hold that rotor properly.

 Also I may as well pull the carbs off so I can look at the magneto wiring exiting the engine. Well that's to be expected and it gives me a good reason to give the carbs a cleaning.

[m in sc]

you use a big adjustable on the sleeve that threads into the rotor, and a wrench (18mm?) on the nut that goes in on the vape drum puller.  hold the big one and turn the bolt in against it.

[RDryan]

OK I will try that. Gonna go look for that tool now, I know I got it somewhere.

[RDryan]

Found my Vape rotor pulling tool, just where I left it many moons ago. So upon that I had some more pretty productive time sorting out the wiring on my bike and also did something lame but learned a great deal from it!

When I went to plug in the regulator I wound up connecting positive to negative and vice versa with the battery already connected ...I know dum dum me So what happens?...well just what's been happening. I blew another fuse. So that got my wheels grinding and I was gonna do more to the bike before I tried starting it but I couldn't help myself and just decided to see if the bike would run and so I went ahead putting the tank on and various other bits off of it. Also fixed my dyslexic wiring mistake of course.

She fired right up and I took a reading at the battery before and after she was running and got readings of 12.1 volts not running and between 12.9 to 13.7 volts running. That's telling me that even after more than a few short circuits that the fuse is doing its job and either that or the Vape regulator is made to handle it well. Maybe even better than Vape would give it credit for.

Feel kinda bad jumping the gun and ordering a replacement but I dunno maybe it's a good spare part to have?   

[m in sc]

I have killed a regulator in the past, so, def not a bad thing to have. it was my own fault but it was also a gen 1 version, and prob 10 years old. they were more delicate back then. (seriously).

glad you got it sorted!         

[SoCal250]

Nice! Good news that you got it figured out and you're back to operational again. Congrats

[RDryan]

I have killed a regulator in the past, so, def not a bad thing to have. it was my own fault but it was also a gen 1 version, and prob 10 years old. they were more delicate back then. (seriously).

glad you got it sorted!         

Yes and thank you Not only am I glad I spoke up over here but more importantly glad you all listened. This forum rocks, a totally essential thing especially where I live, just nobody around locally with this kinda knowledge. I came close to entertaining the idea...of course as a last resort to take my bike to a fairly reputable bike shop. I know they would have fixed it but for way more money than I would spend ordering parts online. Not to mention my time dropping it off and picking it up on their schedule.

This is actually a pretty good learning experience for me too. I had a good time sorting out the wiring. Electricity is pretty daunting for me but a little less so now.

I really enjoyed putting the wire harness on a diet. Removed all the wiring associated with the regulator and really neatened it all up under the seat.

Oh btw I think I noticed a good pro tip Chuck Q put out a while back regarding the homemade spark plug stop. A way to lockup the engine and keep it from turning when tightening the bolt holding the Vape rotor. I think that's what I was thinking of as my only other alternative would be to pull the clutch cover off to lockup the engine.

[RDryan]

Nice! Good news that you got it figured out and you're back to operational again. Congrats

Yeah for sure, I am just amazed at how a teeny little chafing of wire can create so much mystery. But electricity is a total rocket science for me no matter how basic.

Well it did all start out with the bad flasher relay but I do recall at that point I took the headlight off to look for some bad connection in the rat's nest of wires behind it. Probably created shorts trying to fix a short LOL.

 So this morning while reinstalling the headlight I not only did my best to keep the wires out of the way I think I managed a better feel for it and paid better intention to not mashing wires.   Same with the stator,drive side cover. I think just having a better understanding of how it all fits, well I guess that comes from experiences like this. The more you take it apart the better you get at putting it back together

 Enjoying the wealth of knowledge searching the site. Super,super helpful.