Help! Installing HPI Ignition with No Battery

[svgarage]

I bought an HPI 210 ignition from treatland and am trying to get it to work properly. Let me preface this thread by fully admitting that I am not great with electrical- I can read a schematic and trace wires, but I don't fully understand the underpinnings of what's really happening. I've got a '77 RD400 and the HPI is replacing a Newtronic ignition, which worked beautifully. I've read all the threads on this forum (and others) that I could find and they have been extremely helpful so far. What might be making things more difficult is that I'm trying to ditch the battery altogether, while still maintaining the normal function of the stock electrical. I'm still using the stock harness. All lights on the bike are LED with the exception of the tach and speedo.

The rotor is on and the bike timed to 1.9mm BTDC. The bike has had some cylinder porting, the heads skimmed and reshaped, carbs modified and some pretty hot chambers. Yesterday I tested the new coil and CDI (not hooking up the yellow wires and regular) and the bike ran fine, so I verified the timing with a timing light at 3800 rpm. I bought a new Trailtech variable regulator (the one that Mark suggested) and a Bosch 5-pin relay. No rectifier, since I'm not planning on using a battery. Both OEM rectifier and regular have been removed from the bike.



I floated the light coil ground at the stator and ran a second yellow wire with the rest of them. I wired the regulator as Trailtech suggested, and I tried wiring the relay the way Chuck suggested AND the way Mark suggested- both ways the bike did not start.



I patched in the lighting (power) feeds to the red battery positive wire and the rear brake light switch wiring (brown wire). I jumpered the two ground pins together on the relay and grounded the wire to the frame. I also grounded the black battery ground wire to the frame.

When I tried to start the bike today after configuring the relay the way Mark had suggested, the motor was already warmed up from earlier, so it should have readily started, but it was a no go. The key was in the ON position. I tried kicking with the headlight off and on. I tried the kill switch in both off and on positions.

Any suggestions where I could have gone wrong?

- Could I have bought the wrong relay?
- When I floated the lighting coil ground, I disconnected it from the allen screw, there was a black wire and a bare wire soldered together attached to a circular connection. I soldered a (yellow) wire to the whole thing, then taped if off and taped off the corner where the screw hole was, so there's no possibility of grounding again. Should I have cut the black wire off of it and separated it from the bare wire before running the additional lighting lead?
- Should I detach the black battery ground wire?
- Could the LED resistors have anything to do with the bike not starting?


If worst comes to worst, I can always buy a new appropriate rectifier and hook up a capacitor, but I'm trying to keep things simple 

[m in sc]

you need a battery to fire a relay. take the relay out, or, run a battery. if you HAVE to run w out a battery, you need to rewire your kill switch to ground the coil (blue wire) to turn bike off, which usually mean it will work reverse as labeled. Or, fit a momentary kill switch like a dirt bike.

remember: a relay needs initial voltage to work, its an electromagnetic switch, you don't have any w out a battery.

the other way to do it is to use the kill switch/key to interrupt the pickup wire tot he coil (not the hot wire). If it were me, id run a small alarm battery.

[svgarage]

remember: a relay needs initial voltage to work, its an electromagnetic switch, you don't have any w out a battery.

Well, then that would explain why it didn't work. Yes, I'm in unchartered territory and fairly clueless. I'm glad it was something obvious to someone who knows. It's not a mandate that I have to run with no battery, I'm just thinking it's a chance to lose a some weight and do a little cleaning up if possible. Running a small alarm battery sounds like a good plan. Thank you for the help!

[kpke]

Hey Eddy. All that work to run no battery and you need a battery. 

FYI, I am running the small AntiGravity battery in my 500 after the Ballistic battery died. It's very small and light weight. Not cheap but it has worked perfect. Surely you can find a small inexpensive alarm battery though. Let me know if you would like the AG battery part number. I do not remember it off the top of my useless head. Ken

[Dvsrd]

It is fully possible to run battery less, and still have a functional ignition lock and kill switch. That just requires those items to come from a bike with stock CDI or flywheel magneto points ignition. Like RZ350 or almost any Japanese single cylinder twostroke.And some four stroke singles as well..

[m in sc]

^ true.

[svgarage]

I ordered a Trailtech R/R. That'll take at least a week for that to arrive.