Different pipes and resulting powerband?

[Dvsrd]

Actually, there is still a pretty good selection of pipes for our old bikes.
High end pipes like JL, Spec 2, Milennium, custom builds , etc.
And also more basic pipes like DG, Higgspeed, Allspeed, etc
And several options from Japan, which few have much experience with, AFAIK.
Do any of you have any experience or opinion of how the different pipes would work on a stock or near stock ported 350?

[Kawtriplefreak]

Look in the pipe ID thread. There is a description of the pipes depicted listed for each one.

[Dvsrd]

Look in the pipe ID thread. There is a description of the pipes depicted listed for each one.

Oh, thanks!  I did read the entire pipe thread on the old forum, but not this new one before now. The new one is definitely much more informative than the first version.

From a looks perspective, the Spec 2 classics are the best IMHO. But are also reported to be really loud. Maybe I should consider buying a pair, unpainted mild steel. And modifying them to an internal stinger myself?
My 80s Allspeed had that setup and were reasonably quiet, and we all have read Gordon Jennings report on internal stingers and noise vs performance.

[SUPERTUNE]

Why not just buy Spec II F1's?
As long as Gary keeps making them...
Thinking of taking out a bank loan and ordering 10 sets and putting them away...better than gold IMO.
Chuck

[m in sc]

agree, specII f1s are great. on a stock motor i really liked FPP's, but they arent around anymore so...

[Jspooner]

In my opinion, I think you are looking for two things that don't work together very well. You want good performance..................they are going to be loud. Spec IIs, both the classics and the F1s are loud but they perform really well. JLs are loud as well but in my opinion are not as good as the F1s. They seem like they have a little better mid range punch then the F1s but I think the F1s will walk away from them in the upper revs. I have not done a side by side comparison but I've ridden a bike (my RD) with JLs and both styles of Spec IIs. Id say the JLs fall in the middle. I also think they are slightly quieter and better sounding than the F1s . If you have welding and fab skills (which it sounds like you do) I'd suggest getting some Swarbricks. They are racing pipes but they work really well and sound awesome, but again, very loud. I don't know anything about the Millenium pipes that Garrett is producing. As far as internal stingers being quieter, they may be slightly quieter, but my Swarbricks have internal stingers and they are damn near as loud as my Spec IIs. I honesty think the only reason they are slightly quieter is because they have silencers that are about twice the size of the F1 silencers. 

[Czakky]

Awesome reply!
It would be cool to do a "Go Fund Me" dyno shoot out between some popular pipes.

[Dvsrd]

In my opinion, I think you are looking for two things that don't work together very well. You want good performance..................they are going to be loud. Spec IIs, both the classics and the F1s are loud but they perform really well. JLs are loud as well but in my opinion are not as good as the F1s. They seem like they have a little better mid range punch then the F1s but I think the F1s will walk away from them in the upper revs. I have not done a side by side comparison but I've ridden a bike (my RD) with JLs and both styles of Spec IIs. Id say the JLs fall in the middle. I also think they are slightly quieter and better sounding than the F1s . If you have welding and fab skills (which it sounds like you do) I'd suggest getting some Swarbricks. They are racing pipes but they work really well and sound awesome, but again, very loud. I don't know anything about the Millenium pipes that Garrett is producing. As far as internal stingers being quieter, they may be slightly quieter, but my Swarbricks have internal stingers and they are damn near as loud as my Spec IIs. I honesty think the only reason they are slightly quieter is because they have silencers that are about twice the size of the F1 silencers.

Well, actually 3 things :) I am looking for good performance without revving the engine too much, not too loud, and also classic looks as well. On that last requirement, separate silencer cans are out, while Spec 2 Classics look just right. 
Regarding your Swarbricks, how long was the internal stinger? According to Gordon Jennings, the end of the stinger must extend to the weld between baffle cone and belly section for best silencing effect. My 80's Allspeeds were like that, and were actually reasonably quiet.
Also, an internal stinger will allow a longer silencer without the whole pipe becoming silly long.
I have an unused set of Higgspeeds that were way too loud, and that internal stinger section was very short, maybe 3 in or so. Whenever I get home from work, I'll try to get some work done on those pipes (longer stinger, larger diameter muffler tube, maybe modding the headers too)  I know of a guy with Higgspeeds on his GT380, and that bike is horribly loud.....The main attraction of the stainless Higgspeeds is the finish, nice welds and good polish. Otherwise I really cannot recommend them, at least not unmodified.
What I really would like to know, is how the Spec2 Classic silencer and stinger is designed. Maybe someone has a picture, or just a basic sketch of how it is all assembled?

[Jspooner]

The internal stinger on my Swarbricks is right about where you describe. I know because I did it per Dave Swarbrick.

[Jspooner]

You aren't going to have a pipe that looks like the Spec II classics and be quiet. Sounds like you might need to build your own pipes. I have yet to hear a quiet good performing 2 stroke pipe that also looks good.

[Dvsrd]

The internal stinger on my Swarbricks is right about where you describe. I know because I did it per Dave Swarbrick.

Interesting. Do you have any pics of your Swarbrick pipes?

[Jspooner]

The internal stinger on my Swarbricks is right about where you describe. I know because I did it per Dave Swarbrick.

Interesting. Do you have any pics of your Swarbrick pipes?

Check out my RD/LC/TZ375 thread in the show off section.

[Jspooner]

The internal stinger on my Swarbricks is right about where you describe. I know because I did it per Dave Swarbrick.

Interesting. Do you have any pics of your Swarbrick pipes?

Check out my RD/LC/TZ375 thread in the show off section.

Those are TZ pipes but I know someone that bought some for his RD race bike and they look the same. They come incomplete. You have to finish the stingers and hangers. I think you can even buy the rolled cones and weld them together yourself if you want.

[Dvsrd]

You aren't going to have a pipe that looks like the Spec II classics and be quiet. Sounds like you might need to build your own pipes. I have yet to hear a quiet good performing 2 stroke pipe that also looks good.

Building pipes from scratch is not a realistic option.
I built 3 pipes for some mopeds/100 cc bikes in the 90s, one for a moped with a 50 cc Minarelli engine, one for a Suzuki 50 bored out to 80cc and ported by me (that design with piston port inlet+ a 2 blade case reed), and a Kawasaki KH100 (same engine as KE100). Just basic pipes with single stage diffuser and using the stock headpipe.
Building chambers for an RD, with tapered headers, two or three stage diffusers, etc is just too much work for me at this stage.
On the other hand,  I am perfectly happy modifying stingers, mufflers, muffler sleeves on pre-built pipes with an already good reputation for power delivery. As well as improving or extending manifolds/ flanges and so on. I do have a basic TIG welder, a lathe and some other tools, but unfortunately no roller or cone anvil. Or a CNC laser cutter for that matter 

[teazer]

Back in 84/85 a couple of magazines compared pipes for the RZ350.  Cycle in August 84 and Cycle World in January 85 according to my files.  If you can't find a scan. let me know and I can post one.

No Higgs or Jim Lomas pipes back then, but it's a place to start.  Or buy one set of each and book a dyno for a week.