Ducati. F-ing me?

[paul1478]

I wanted a Ducati for a long time. Wife told me to get one around Aug 2022. I looked all over and fell into one while I was in Detroit. A 2022 V2 Panigale. I had Ducati of Detroit put on an Arrow slip-on to remove the Euro 5, they added a servo delete and did a flash tune (Brent tuning).
Flash to last week, getting off the freeway I noted an oil light come on. I stopped thinking maybe oil level. Bike only has 4200 miles but still, stopped. Oil perfect. So I started it back up and went on. The light came back on so I stopped and called my son and trailered the bike back home. Called Ducati of ATL, they said likely just a sensor. I did a flash back to "stock" to be sure there was nothing in the flash that was causing this and no, same after a very short ride.
I took it in to Ducati of ATL. 5 days later I got call saying there is copper in my oil, likely a bearing failure at 4200 miles. I though well SHIT, but still under warranty. Next sentence was, and Ducati declined to even look to see what the issue is due to an aftermarket flash. I called Ducati to have a discussion about this and they said the technical director for North America will be calling me to explain "how an aftermarket flash can cause bearing material in the oil" and "why they declined the warranty". Not how it did but how it could. 
The Ducati head tech at ATL told me he does not see this would be the case and seems more likely a manufacturing failure. Ducati of Detroit who did the mods tells me, they cannot just deny a warranty claim just based on the fact you have done a non-manufacture mod.  He believes they need to make the case my mod was directly the cause of the failure, or this was his understanding of the law. He was an area service manager for Ducati for 11 years, but he is not sure and wished me good luck.
The good news is, I have the money to get this rebuilt or have a crashed bike motor put in (about 2800-3200 for motor only). But this is under my skin and cannot seem to get over it. It has consumed me for the past week.
If anyone knows warranty law, I would be glad to take a lesson.

[Striker1423]

A tune doesn't stop an oil pump from working.

The guy is leaning into that as he's probably backed up with warranty claim submissions buried on his desk (that he can't seem to make the time to process) because those claims lower his bottom line and productivity numbers. The only leg he has to stand on is something in the various modules being off causing a running issue. Again, if the motors turning the pump is too. He just doesn't want to deal with a warranty claim as the process sucks across the powersports board. As a Service Writer over a summer, many hours were spent on phones with Yamaha, Suzuki, etc. for warranty claims. They just suck.

Call Ducati yourself and ask. Give them the dealer info, and any paperwork you have from them. Don't lie either (not saying you would).

[paul1478]

thanks,
I did call Ducati customer service. That is why the director of north America is to call me back with the explanation of how this flash "could cause" the failure.
Yes i am with you, be civil, do not lie, be as polite as posable. 
I honest think my best outcome is they pay for the parts. I can sue them but I would have to go to CA to do this. I am sure they have a team of lawyers that would make me look stupid in small claims court.

[m in sc]

for them to deny it they have to prove correlation. there obviously isn't any. if there was there would have been a rash of them that were flashed that then failed. they have to prove that, and remind them of that.

that sucks, i know thats your dream bike.

when i had my sport classic, it had been reflashed, had termis fitted, etc, and they had to do a warranty repair, actually 2, not motor related though. they didn't even remotely try that bullshit.

[Evans Ward]

I hate that for you Paul! I'd continue the course that you are on though.

Maybe a member here is an attorney or legal assistant or knows of one in their family? Hoping that advice could be shared with you in this situation.

[paul1478]

Thanks Guys.
Mark, that is what I was told, they have to show that the modification was the cause. And you are 100% correct there are many hundreds of these flashes. The exhaust and flash was done by the dealer, not me on the back yard. I assumed they would not steer me into this dilemma. 
I am trying to think positive!

[m in sc]

well if the dealer did it, might fall under the lemon law as well. they got some balls trying that though. ...and I've been a  service manager before, so, I speak with some experience in this.  Only way they can get out of it is if you signed a disclaimer that you gave up your warranty when this mod was done by them. If not, you are in the clear.  my .02

[Djg8493]

I would also join one of the Ducati forums or FB groups to see if this is a more common failure of these engines.  If you can point to that then it would be up to them to prove it wasn't their engine failure.  I do agree trying to cut a deal to pay for parts and they the labor or something is probably your best bet. 

[1976RD400C]

Is there a written copy of the warrantee that came with the bike?

[bitzz]

I would be VERY interested to learn how a tune is responsible for the bottom end crapping out. My peanut brain is having a hard time with that....

... but seeing how a Ducati dealer installed said tune on your bike, maybe a threatening letter from a local lawyer can get the dealer MORE on your side. If Ducati is saying the "tune" caused your problems, doesn't that make it the dealer's problem? Dealer doesn't want expensive problems.

[m in sc]

ive seen a too aggressive timing curve wipe out a rod bearing on a 4 stroke, bad. but you would have heard it for a long time before it smashed it. .02

[busa1300]

This has been the case on the Aprilia RSV4 forum for a while.
They say if you put, or the dealer puts a tune on your bike within warranty timeline....you just removed the warranty.
I know there was a lawsuit against Harley for not accepting responsibility for work done by non Harley dealers on bikes still under warranty.
I still put a Ti pipe and T800 Gabro tune on my RSV4 after 1000 miles.
I have never heard a good word about a BT tune on the Aprilia site....

[rlgrantjr]

This seems a bit unreal.  If the Detroit dealer did not tell you the mods you wanted would void the warranty, is it up to you to know this?  Apparently so.  Was it in the original warranty information sold when the bike was new and you did not get it?  Unfortunately, as you said, Ducati has the money to just deny the warranty claim and you have to sue.  It seems to me that between the Detroit dealer that performed mods that Ducati corporate claims caused the damage... between the two of them they need to make you whole.  You operated in good faith and Ducati as an entity is clearly not.  This makes Detroit Ducati look uninformed about the capability of their product to handle mods.  If Ducati corporate refuses you claim, then they should demand that Ducati dealers do not perform any engine mods at all if the product is still under warranty and if they do, then they are on the hook for fixing it.  Ducati corporate needs to do a better job of protecting the brand image because things like this makes the brand look bad.

[m in sc]

I would go after the dealer if they did not disclose the mod they did affected warranty.. since they are responsible to administer the warranty claims and Ducati corporates responsibility is to approve or reject said claims.
If there was no written disclaimer, its def legally on the dealership IF their actions were found to actually 1: void the warranty w out telling you and 2: it caused the damage (which no way in hell it did but that's their argument, not yours).   

the dealership is easier to go after by far than the corporate entity, and, its where the fault lies.

[rlgrantjr]

Yep, agreed, the dealer is easier to go after.  First though, I'd try to get out of the middle of the conversation and get Detroit and corporate pointing fingers at each other.  As I said, they should work it out so you are made whole without you having to sue or be out of pocket for the repair.